The Official Xbox One Thread

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lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Hard as it may be to believe, Gamestop executives believe that both the Microsoft Xbox One as well as the Sony PlayStation 4 will be priced less than their predecessors—and fewer people will buy them, too.

Gamestop executives told analysts that their “market model,” based on their own estimates as well as what they’ve been told by Microsoft and Sony, call for the next-generation systems to have a “lower opening price point than they did last cycle,” Robert Lloyd, the chief financial officer of Gamestop, told analysts on Thursday. The same model assumes that the adoption rate for both consoles will be between 80 to 85 percent of the past cycle, he said, and that the attach rate for software will be about 80 percent.

That means, Lloyd said, that the retailer expects 2013 sales will decline versus 2012, then pick up in 2013 as the new consoles launches gain traction, Lloyd said. In 2014, they will return to “very healthy growth,” he said.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Sony reconsidering used games DRM following Xbox One reveal – rumour

File this one very firmly in the “some guy on the Internet said” category, but this weekend’s hot gossip is that Sony is going to bin plans for a used games DRM system following the Internet’s unhappy reaction to news of a similar scheme for the Xbox One.

The not so farfetched suggestion that Sony might employ a similar system to that announced for the Xbox One arose from a comment made by Geoff Keighley in an episode of Bonus Round, in which he said he had heard that Sony might pursue the same course.

Shortly thereafter, famousmortimer, NeoGAF poster whose Sony predictions have in the past been perfectly correct, said Keighley’s comment is accurate but out of date.

“The gist of it is that Sony is listening to the backlash that Microsoft is getting and they are basing decisions off of this,” they explained in another post.

“I can say, for sure, that the past week’s PR nightmare for MS has not been lost on Sony and they, in fact, do have a used game ‘solution’ working and have been going back and forth for months on whether to use it. This past week is pushing them strongly into ‘Yeah, let’s not use that.’”

Worldwide Studios boss Shuhei Yoshida, in particular, is very open to feedback, the poster added.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
34
91
That rumor doesn't shock me at all. No way ms is going to be the only one doing something new with used games.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
Xbox One is also going to be region locked.http://www.vg247.com/2013/05/27/xbox...soft-confirms/ Another fail.

MS REALLY needs to get its people on the same page.

That said region locked.

This, an interview with the corporate VP:
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/05/phil-harrison-xbox-one/2/

Wired: Will there be region-locking? For example, if a person wants to import a game that’s only available outside the United States, will it be able to play on the Xbox One?
Harrison: Generally, our policy on that is to let the developer or publisher choose how they want to implement that. I would imagine the same thing will happen with Xbox One, but I actually do not know.

And with people here saying it's this way on the 360, apparently "our policy" doesn't even apply to the 360, so he REALLY doesn't know.

BTW personally region locking is of no relevance to me, honestly could not care any less.
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
13,365
16
0
BTW personally region locking is of no relevance to me, honestly could not care any less.

But it is important to a large number of people, especially in the military where being stationed overseas is common. Video games are popular amongst soldiers.
 

American Gunner

Platinum Member
Aug 26, 2010
2,399
0
71
You are allowed to change the region on your account right now, so I am sure that it would work for the next console.
 

AstroManLuca

Lifer
Jun 24, 2004
15,628
5
81
But it is important to a large number of people, especially in the military where being stationed overseas is common. Video games are popular amongst soldiers.

The Xbone won't be though, since it relies on a constant internet connection. Some soldiers don't have internet access (or at least, reliable, daily accessible internet access) while deployed. I remember this came up when Blizzard announced that Diablo 3 wouldn't have an offline mode.
 

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
4,093
9,567
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I sat down with a buddy and had a long conversation about how both MS and Sony should be handling this. Here's what we came up with:

1) The Issue
We believe the underlying conflict here is company/developer revenue vs. consumer satisfaction. On one end, you can have a strict DRM system where each account must have a license to play said game (i.e. maximum developer revenue, minimum consumer satisfaction), or you have the other end of the spectrum where there are no restrictions on ownership and you are free to lend your copy of the game as many times as you'd like (maximum consumer satisfaction, minimum developer revenue). The question becomes: is there a suitable middle ground where both parties can be reasonably satisfied?

2) Used Games
We believe that the whole idea of selling a "used" copy of a digital game is silly to begin with, considering that there is really no such thing as "used" code: a new copy of the game will run just as well as a "used" copy. However, with consoles, people are used to having a physical medium for their games and typically speaking would want to have the option of selling games they no longer play. From what I understand, games will still come in discs; the game will run from the disc (and will be installed onto the HD over time), but each disc has a unique license tied to it which can only be tied to one account at any given time. In the strictest sense, this approach eliminates the used game market entirely - you buy a game at market value, you play it, you beat it, you are stuck with it forever. Very Steam-esque. But remember, console gamers are used to being able to sell their games back (and so is GameStop).

So MS and Sony cannot realistically go down this route without pissing off too many people. The polar opposite is equally bad as well; they cannot realistically stick with the old game model and let people share/pirate games since this will result in large financial losses to both MS/Sony and developers.

We believe the best alternative is to allow used licenses to be sold to other consumers at a reduced cost. Person A bought "Next Gen Game 4" for $60 on release and wants to sell it back. S/he trades in his/her license to that game for $XX% of the current market value of the game and Person B may decide to purchase Person A's license for $(XX% + Y), where Y represents some kind of profit margin the developer/MS/Sony/Gamestop (DMSG) will be gaining on this sale. Person A benefits by being able to sell back games they no longer want to play, Person B gains by being able to purchase a game for lower than full price, and DMSG will gain from this since they all get a cut of the profit. Isn't this profit less than what they would be gaining if there were no used games? Yes (with the exception of Gamestop; they would be massively boned if they could no longer profit off of selling used games), but it does strike a compromise between everyone's interests. The next question is why would anyone buy a game at full price if they can purchase someone else's ex-license? The answer is they wouldn't, but keep in mind there should be only a limited number of used licenses at any given time, which ensures that some people will be paying retail price. Of course, as with all licenses, these used licenses should be heavily safeguarded to ensure people don't try to capitalize on bogus CD keys.

3) Borrowing/Lending
Borrowing/lending is going to be impossible if MS/Sony implement an always-on DRM system. Under this system, the only time your friend would be able to play your game at his/her discretion is if you give him/her your account details so that he/she may log in using your account to play your game. This is unacceptable for some people. Most of us probably do not want to have to share account details just to let a friend borrow a game. Again, MS/Sony would do this to prevent financial losses from pirating and for good reasons imo.

We came up with this solution to satisfy both parties:
- You are allowed to freely borrow a friend's game a limited number of times (X) over a fixed period of time (Y). There will also be a cap on how long you may borrow a friend's game.

- Permissions to borrow games will be in the form of allowances. The number of allowances refreshes back to X amount every Y days, and the value of X varies depending on the premium level of your account. Standard accounts do not come with this privilege; you must pay extra to borrow games. Realistically, the pricing on this account upgrade should be set at a level where you would have to consistently use most of your allowances in order to break even. Think of it as having a season pass to your favorite amusement park. The cost of a day pass is $40 and the cost of the season pass is $80. Go twice and you break even; go more and you save money. Most people end up going just once, which is why season passes are profitable in the long-run. Serious gamers will love this option, and casual gamers will stick to buying a few select games.

- Assuming the borrower has an available allowance to borrow a game, the lender temporarily forfeits his/her license and may no longer play his/her copy of said game until the time limit expires. The time limit should be set to the same value as Y, i.e. when allowances refresh. If the borrower wishes to continue playing said game, they must make another request to borrow said game. Their game progress should be stored on the cloud under their account so no progress would be lost during the discontinuity in ownership.
 

dagamer34

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2005
2,591
0
71
Here's one:

Only new games allowed for 2 months (tied to your account), then used games are allowed. Avoids rapid fire sales 2 weeks after a game is released, still lets someone else play a game.

We should be clear that there are two types of "used games" out there: there's buying a game released 4 years ago from Gamestop for $10 which a developer/publisher has long since made there money off of and there's the extremely predatory $54.99 used game on Gamestop's shelves one week after the game has been released. No one cares about the former, MS, Sony, and the publishers desperately want to kill off the latter.
 

American Gunner

Platinum Member
Aug 26, 2010
2,399
0
71
The Xbone won't be though, since it relies on a constant internet connection. Some soldiers don't have internet access (or at least, reliable, daily accessible internet access) while deployed. I remember this came up when Blizzard announced that Diablo 3 wouldn't have an offline mode.
Except for the fact that MS has already stated they are working on a system for soldiers for that very reason.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Except for the fact that MS has already stated they are working on a system for soldiers for that very reason.

And the majority of deployed soldiers have internet. They aren't stationed on the Moon. Afghanistan has internet, Iraq has internet, every other overseas base has stable internet.
 

AstroManLuca

Lifer
Jun 24, 2004
15,628
5
81
And the majority of deployed soldiers have internet. They aren't stationed on the Moon. Afghanistan has internet, Iraq has internet, every other overseas base has stable internet.

Well that's nice to know. I only know one person who is in the military and I really don't know what it's like on deployment. I've just heard this before and I wasn't sure if it was still true or not.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
126
Well that's nice to know. I only know one person who is in the military and I really don't know what it's like on deployment. I've just heard this before and I wasn't sure if it was still true or not.

It's not that cut and dry though, having access to being able to send out some emails or facebook messages is not the same as being able to play online with no lag.

Read this, it's a good quick piece that should give you the feel :

http://www.ironrealms.com/online-muds-combating-boredom-in-the-military-with-text-games

Servicemen wouldn't be paying civilian contractors for *spotty* internet access if they had freely available high-quality access.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
126
Except for the fact that MS has already stated they are working on a system for soldiers for that very reason.

Now that will be interesting, and laudable for sure. They really do need to address this, and if they put the resources and $$ into solving that issue, I'll be the first to stand up and give them some well deserved props. It is NOT easy as it stands to game online on deployment in Iraq/Afghanistan (especially Afghanistan).
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Well that's nice to know. I only know one person who is in the military and I really don't know what it's like on deployment. I've just heard this before and I wasn't sure if it was still true or not.

There are bases and forward posts with no internet, but the majority of people at these bases work 12+ hour days and don't have a lot of time to game anyway. And some places do have rather costly, crappy internet, but connecting every so often shouldn't be a huge problem.
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
0
There are bases and forward posts with no internet, but the majority of people at these bases work 12+ hour days and don't have a lot of time to game anyway. And some places do have rather costly, crappy internet, but connecting every so often shouldn't be a huge problem.



So how long were you in Iraq or Afghanistan out of curiosity?
 

dagamer34

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2005
2,591
0
71
There are bases and forward posts with no internet, but the majority of people at these bases work 12+ hour days and don't have a lot of time to game anyway. And some places do have rather costly, crappy internet, but connecting every so often shouldn't be a huge problem.

The DRM stuff is software. It really isn't that hard to make "Xbox One Military Edition" which is only given to service members to play overseas.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,664
6,547
126
discussion for today...

i wonder if ms ever thought that FORCING a kinect on people would turn off people. i wonder if they did market research or something to get a feel that it would bring in more people than it would turn away. like some people simply don't have a feasable setup (myself included) to have kinect in the picture. especially with how everyone now a days is hanging tv's on the wall. quite a few people simply don't have a setup to have this other ugly black bar with wires running to it, connected to a console.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
So how long were you in Iraq or Afghanistan out of curiosity?
Never in those two countries, but I had quite a few co-workers and tons of acquaintances. Not a lot of need for software developers, but that didn't stop me from volunteering quite a bit. Qatar was the closest I got, but I wouldn't really call UAE a place lacking in anything.

discussion for today...

i wonder if ms ever thought that FORCING a kinect on people would turn off people. i wonder if they did market research or something to get a feel that it would bring in more people than it would turn away. like some people simply don't have a feasable setup (myself included) to have kinect in the picture. especially with how everyone now a days is hanging tv's on the wall. quite a few people simply don't have a setup to have this other ugly black bar with wires running to it, connected to a console.
With the success of the current Kinect, I think MS figures there are people who just don't want to pay the $150 extra for it (like me, because I'd hack it for PC use and just goof around with it). And if they want to push the voice commands / person sensing further, having the install base 100% of Xbox One users having Kinects helps that. They don't have to worry about adoption rates to hit a point where developers feel it is worth it.

As far as set up, I find it hard to believe the majority of people would have a problem positioning the Kinect. Living room, bed room, office, basement, or whatever I think you could find a place. Sure, not 100%, but if you really don't plan on using the motion detection features, it can sit on the floor really.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,664
6,547
126
Never in those two countries, but I had quite a few co-workers and tons of acquaintances. Not a lot of need for software developers, but that didn't stop me from volunteering quite a bit. Qatar was the closest I got, but I wouldn't really call UAE a place lacking in anything.


With the success of the current Kinect, I think MS figures there are people who just don't want to pay the $150 extra for it (like me, because I'd hack it for PC use and just goof around with it). And if they want to push the voice commands / person sensing further, having the install base 100% of Xbox One users having Kinects helps that. They don't have to worry about adoption rates to hit a point where developers feel it is worth it.

As far as set up, I find it hard to believe the majority of people would have a problem positioning the Kinect. Living room, bed room, office, basement, or whatever I think you could find a place. Sure, not 100%, but if you really don't plan on using the motion detection features, it can sit on the floor really.

yeah, but who wants a black bar sitting on the floor of their room with a wire dangling out of it to the kinect?

i also feel that MS feels cocky about kinect as a whole. i get the feeling that they assume EVERYONE would have LOVED the kinect and used it tremendously if it came with the xbox360, which is why they are including it now.

i can tell you that all of my friends (30's and 20's) all had absolutely no interest in the kinect, whether it was free or not. i don't really see their view changing much with the xbox1, but we will have to see how it's actually used in real world scenarios. i'm anxious to see how it actually works with games at e3. i'm fairly confident that it won't be NEARLY as respnosive as they've shown thus far, when it's actually being used in a game. hope they prove me wrong.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
yeah, but who wants a black bar sitting on the floor of their room with a wire dangling out of it to the kinect?

i also feel that MS feels cocky about kinect as a whole. i get the feeling that they assume EVERYONE would have LOVED the kinect and used it tremendously if it came with the xbox360, which is why they are including it now.

i can tell you that all of my friends (30's and 20's) all had absolutely no interest in the kinect, whether it was free or not. i don't really see their view changing much with the xbox1, but we will have to see how it's actually used in real world scenarios. i'm anxious to see how it actually works with games at e3. i'm fairly confident that it won't be NEARLY as respnosive as they've shown thus far, when it's actually being used in a game. hope they prove me wrong.

There were a lot of cool stuff shown when the Kinect first came out and people hacked them for their PCs. That is really the only interest I have, being a developer who loves to tinker with stuff like that. With better sensors and some decent programming behind solid ideas, I don't think it will perform that bad.

I can understand MS's move to push the Kinect. It might slightly raise the price of the console, but to them, it is an integral part. You wouldn't buy a console that didn't come with a controller right? They view this as part of the system, not just a peripheral. Some people might not use it, but they are willing to risk that just having it, some people who wouldn't normally use it, will try it out and like it. Worst case scenario: they will try it out and dislike it.
 

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
3,656
60
91
yeah, but who wants a black bar sitting on the floor of their room with a wire dangling out of it to the kinect?

i also feel that MS feels cocky about kinect as a whole. i get the feeling that they assume EVERYONE would have LOVED the kinect and used it tremendously if it came with the xbox360, which is why they are including it now.

i can tell you that all of my friends (30's and 20's) all had absolutely no interest in the kinect, whether it was free or not. i don't really see their view changing much with the xbox1, but we will have to see how it's actually used in real world scenarios. i'm anxious to see how it actually works with games at e3. i'm fairly confident that it won't be NEARLY as respnosive as they've shown thus far, when it's actually being used in a game. hope they prove me wrong.

Much less the idea the everybody would love it, but the fact that it didn't ship by default severely limited its capabilities. By shipping it with every console, the Kinect hardware can be fully utilized, and it certainly helps to have a standard feature across all consoles.

Not a defense, per se, just an explanation of why a standard pack-in is good for that pack-in.
 

American Gunner

Platinum Member
Aug 26, 2010
2,399
0
71
really curious to see what the Rare title is. my wishes would be a new killer instinct, but i don't see that happening. my guess is it will be conker.
It will be nice to see Rare back developing games. I really can't wait to hear about these exclusives. Hopefully there are no more than 5 kinect only titles, since those won't interest me at all.