The Official Xbox One Thread

[smackababy]

dude the pc market WISHES they made as much money as the console market does. that is why i don't get why console market would want to go the pc route.

and i'm not talking mmo's that require monthly fees, talking "normal" games.

But the console market is not going to lose any of the money they are already making by switching to licenses. The used game market does nothing to increase developer profits. It is not like they are not going to sell 10 million copies of CoD because 1 million people can't buy it used AFTER they sell 10 million copies (and 10% is a made up figure and probably much higher than it is in reality).

To publishers, offering license like PC software makes even more sense. It is harder to pirate on consoles, and therefore you have to pay them to play no matter what. From a business standpoint, this makes so much sense I am surprised we are just now getting there.

 

[smackababy]

Nitpicking here but if they aren't worth anything as new games why are you buying them for $60? Clearly they are worth that to you.

Because who knew Two Worlds was going to be worthless? Some games are just bad, and once that word gets out, the resale value drops drastically. I worked at a Gamestop. A week after Two Worlds launched, we were paying something like $8 for it.

 

[purbeast0]

But the console market is not going to lose any of the money they are already making by switching to licenses. The used game market does nothing to increase developer profits. It is not like they are not going to sell 10 million copies of CoD because 1 million people can't buy it used AFTER they sell 10 million copies (and 10% is a made up figure and probably much higher than it is in reality).

To publishers, offering license like PC software makes even more sense. It is harder to pirate on consoles, and therefore you have to pay them to play no matter what. From a business standpoint, this makes so much sense I am surprised we are just now getting there.

i don't know about it not affecting the 10 million copies of cod being bought. i could see it easily effecting that. there may be people who buy cod brand new on launch day, but they pick up single player games at a later time and buy them used.

but knowing all of this, they may now end up getting a ps4 instead of x1 because of this decision.

we have no clue how it will effect the market until it happens. i just think that this decision won't have anything positive for the consumer side, only negatives. and having happy consumers is how companies make the most money.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Because who knew Two Worlds was going to be worthless? Some games are just bad, and once that word gets out, the resale value drops drastically. I worked at a Gamestop. A week after Two Worlds launched, we were paying something like $8 for it.

I was a manager at gamestop for 5 years, trust me I know how the market works and all that.

I understand there are bad games. Just that with all the information available online. All the previews,. reviews, hands on info from gamers like yourself. You should have no problem in determining what games you will enjoy.

 

[American Gunner]

i don't know about it not affecting the 10 million copies of cod being bought. i could see it easily effecting that. there may be people who buy cod brand new on launch day, but they pick up single player games at a later time and buy them used.

but knowing all of this, they may now end up getting a ps4 instead of x1 because of this decision.

we have no clue how it will effect the market until it happens. i just think that this decision won't have anything positive for the consumer side, only negatives. and having happy consumers is how companies make the most money.

Yeah, don't forget that Sony talked about how every game will be available online and you would be able to jump in and try the game out before you buy it. So one that side of things, you wouldn't have to worry about spending money on a game that you find out later sucks, because you can try it out first.

 

[smackababy]

i don't know about it not affecting the 10 million copies of cod being bought. i could see it easily effecting that. there may be people who buy cod brand new on launch day, but they pick up single player games at a later time and buy them used.

but knowing all of this, they may now end up getting a ps4 instead of x1 because of this decision.

we have no clue how it will effect the market until it happens. i just think that this decision won't have anything positive for the consumer side, only negatives. and having happy consumers is how companies make the most money.

This was done successfully in the PC market already though. Games used to just require a disc to be played. You could buy and resell your games all day. Then companies realized CD burners basically negated the buying part and activation keys started. Steam came along and started a service that handled that stuff well enough people adopted it (or were forced to use it for HL2, as in my case). Now, who will argue Steam is hurting consumers? It has the potential to hurt consumers, yes; they can just shut their lights off and we are all screwed, but as long as it is profitable for Steam to keep running, we are safe. And, in the case of MS doing this, I think we have quite a bit of time before MS starts losing more money than they make.

 

[smackababy]

Yeah, don't forget that Sony talked about how every game will be available online and you would be able to jump in and try the game out before you buy it. So one that side of things, you wouldn't have to worry about spending money on a game that you find out later sucks, because you can try it out first.

Also, MS already has established rules in the XBLA that every game for sale requires a playable demo. Could they force publishers who want to do digital distribution to allow such a demo be available? Think about being able to download a game for 24 hours before it had to be activated to be used. And when you buy it, you already have the full game downloaded and can jump right back in where you left off. Publishers might be onboard with that because the piracy rate for the Xbox One, especially until at the very least a year into the lifecycle, will have zero piracy worries.

 

[purbeast0]

This was done successfully in the PC market already though. Games used to just require a disc to be played. You could buy and resell your games all day. Then companies realized CD burners basically negated the buying part and activation keys started. Steam came along and started a service that handled that stuff well enough people adopted it (or were forced to use it for HL2, as in my case). Now, who will argue Steam is hurting consumers? It has the potential to hurt consumers, yes; they can just shut their lights off and we are all screwed, but as long as it is profitable for Steam to keep running, we are safe. And, in the case of MS doing this, I think we have quite a bit of time before MS starts losing more money than they make.

pc pirating is much different than console pirating is though. i don't think it's even fair to compare the two.

i gamed wwaaayyy back on pc and i hardly remember back to games just requiring discs. but i do remember when cd games came out, most started to require a key that came packed in with the game you had to manually enter. much easier to enter a key with a keyboard than a controller. and since this was "normal" for pcs back then, to combat piracy, it was accepted and easy to deal with. it was also expected.

however, piracy on consoles isn't the same as pc. you can't just put a bootleg version of the game in and it loads up. additionally, you can't just modify the disc with some crack, changes some files around on your console, put the bootleg in and it works. it requires much more work to get piracy done on consoles, and also is much riskier because you can ruin it for good.

all these changes that are coming to the new xbox are making it much more "pc like", which is a drawback for me. the reason i like console gaming more than pc gaming is because of it's convenience and simplicity. the more pc-like it gets, the more it will turn me away.

 

[American Gunner]

Also, MS already has established rules in the XBLA that every game for sale requires a playable demo. Could they force publishers who want to do digital distribution to allow such a demo be available? Think about being able to download a game for 24 hours before it had to be activated to be used. And when you buy it, you already have the full game downloaded and can jump right back in where you left off. Publishers might be onboard with that because the piracy rate for the Xbox One, especially until at the very least a year into the lifecycle, will have zero piracy worries.

It remains to be seen if they do that for full fledged games.

 

[smackababy]

pc pirating is much different than console pirating is though. i don't think it's even fair to compare the two.

i gamed wwaaayyy back on pc and i hardly remember back to games just requiring discs. but i do remember when cd games came out, most started to require a key that came packed in with the game you had to manually enter. much easier to enter a key with a keyboard than a controller. and since this was "normal" for pcs back then, to combat piracy, it was accepted and easy to deal with. it was also expected.

How old are you? You don't remember "Don't copy that floppy"?

however, piracy on consoles isn't the same as pc. you can't just put a bootleg version of the game in and it loads up. additionally, you can't just modify the disc with some crack, changes some files around on your console, put the bootleg in and it works. it requires much more work to get piracy done on consoles, and also is much riskier because you can ruin it for good.

See the Dreamcast. While, it is much harder to pirate now on console, it isn't unheard of. A simple sata cable and you can have your 360 playing burned discs.

all these changes that are coming to the new xbox are making it much more "pc like", which is a drawback for me. the reason i like console gaming more than pc gaming is because of it's convenience and simplicity. the more pc-like it gets, the more it will turn me away.

That is a valid concern. And it looks like MS is trying to address that by making it as simple as possible. I have no doubts you could figure out how to install a PC game, but a lot of console gamers couldn't.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Also, MS already has established rules in the XBLA that every game for sale requires a playable demo. Could they force publishers who want to do digital distribution to allow such a demo be available? Think about being able to download a game for 24 hours before it had to be activated to be used. And when you buy it, you already have the full game downloaded and can jump right back in where you left off. Publishers might be onboard with that because the piracy rate for the Xbox One, especially until at the very least a year into the lifecycle, will have zero piracy worries.

PSN+ has something similar. Full Game Trial. Basically you get something like an hour to play the full game and if you want it then buy it. Otherwise just delete it.

Excellent idea for MS too.

 

[RedRooster]

i don't know about it not affecting the 10 million copies of cod being bought. i could see it easily effecting that. there may be people who buy cod brand new on launch day, but they pick up single player games at a later time and buy them used.

but knowing all of this, they may now end up getting a ps4 instead of x1 because of this decision.

we have no clue how it will effect the market until it happens. i just think that this decision won't have anything positive for the consumer side, only negatives. and having happy consumers is how companies make the most money.

I wouldn't say no positives. Like I say, this all hinges entirely on publishers having control and making an effort to sell stuff digitally instead of letting their digital copies languish at full price forever like now. And if MS can pull off an effort to reimburse you a certian % for your license, well I'm sure not walking into stores anymore and will be buying a ton more $30 games when the pubs have a fast sale.
The way things are now is perfect for me, but if they can do nearly everything I do now digitally, who wouldn't go for that?

 

[Nintendesert]

actually as a PC gamer the move to NO DRM PERIOD is all the rage in PC gaming and has been for a couple years as we understand the draconian ways are not good. Please don't pin this as 'joining the PC way". Yes PC games had it , still have it.. MANY, MANY PC games have a key, and as long as you put it in when its installed , it will work on ANY machine. but only for one user.. Only VERY RECENTLY did they start tying the key to an account (except on multiplayer games, this has always been the case). THE KEY was to keep me from making a copy.. not to keep the original disc from being used on more then one machine ..It was to stop PIRACY which it didnt.. you will never stop it..

yes big companies like EA and Activison are using this system, but its not a PC standard.. STARDOCK has several succesfull games with NO DRM whatsoever..

No this is not a PC thing. Its fairly common on the PC, but the pc has never had CARTS and propitiatory media, its been on Media that was easily copied.. While ANYTHING can be copied.. adding a simple CD key stops that.. this one account thing is just a money grab..

STEAM is what the PC market is defined by, it's DRM that consoles wish they had. No piracy and no resales. :biggrin:

 

[cmdrdredd]

I wouldn't say no positives. Like I say, this all hinges entirely on publishers having control and making an effort to sell stuff digitally instead of letting their digital copies languish at full price forever like now. And if MS can pull off an effort to reimburse you a certian % for your license, well I'm sure not walking into stores anymore and will be buying a ton more $30 games when the pubs have a fast sale.
The way things are now is perfect for me, but if they can do nearly everything I do now digitally, who wouldn't go for that?

I still like to have the disk, the box on my shelf, the collection, the artwork. I care about all that.

Most of my games are registered on Steam for the PC, but all of them Have a Disk with a case.

 

[AstroManLuca]

STEAM is what the PC market is defined by, it's DRM that consoles wish they had. No piracy and no resales. :biggrin:

Yeah but Steam also puts games on sale frequently and offers meaningful discounts. I don't see either of those things happening with the Xbox.

You'd like to think that, since publishers can make money from selling games forever rather than relying on an initial burst of retail sales immediately after launch, they could drop prices a little more and still make more money than they do now, but you just know that they won't actually do it.

I don't even care about reselling my games. It's having access to less expensive games that I'm worried about. If you are okay with not having all the latest releases, you can easily average around $15 a purchase by taking advantage of Steam sales.

 

[lupi]

Except, they have stated they allow you to play USED GAMES without a fee. So, it is not like PC gaming where you can't transfer licenses, because if these games have licenses, being able to buy a used one means it has to be deactivated / reactivated through some measure, which an enterable code would be so outlandish nobody would do it.

They have said almost nothing on this area other than an installed disc is worthless to another person. They have virtually said that MS will control the aspect of being able to sell a usable disc to another person. While there has been a response stating that the FEE aspect was incorrect, you've got to be fooling yourself if you don't think a monetary aspect of some nature will be incurred.

 

[AstroManLuca]

They have said almost nothing on this area other than an installed disc is worthless to another person. They have virtually said that MS will control the aspect of being able to sell a usable disc to another person. While there has been a response stating that the FEE aspect was incorrect, you've got to be fooling yourself if you don't think a monetary aspect of some nature will be incurred.

Yeah, the only rumor I've heard is that if you give your game disc to a friend, they can put the data on their console, but they won't be able to play it unless the buy the game (at full retail price), which would then unlock that content. Alternately, you could sign into your own XBL account from their house, allowing you to play any games that you own on their hardware.

Now that may well be the case, but it's not really a transfer in that sense... I mean, if they're paying the full retail price, you'd better not lose access to your own copy of the game. In that situation, the only reason to let a friend borrow your disc would be to save time so they don't have to download it or drive to a store.

The idea of transferring your license to another person, thus removing your own ability to play the game, is something that hasn't really been touched on yet. No idea if such a thing will be possible, and if it is, how it would work. The idea of un-selling digitally purchased content doesn't even exist anywhere as far as I know.

 

[Dari]

I heard that the new Xbox uses blu-ray and all games are installed on the HDD. But the HDD only has 500GB of space. Can you put in a larger hard drive like the PS3?

 

[Rage187]

I heard that the new Xbox uses blu-ray and all games are installed on the HDD. But the HDD only has 500GB of space. Can you put in a larger hard drive like the PS3?

It has USB 3.0 and allows external storage. External storage can include all content.

 

[Dari]

It has USB 3.0 and allows external storage. External storage can include all content.

That sucks. I'd hate to have multiple HDDs in my entertainment center. Will these external storages have to be Microsoft Certified?

 

[raasco]

I'm still waiting for both Sony and MS to announce that new games will cost $70. It's pure speculation, but prices seem to rise with each new generation.

 

[Topweasel]

That sucks. I'd hate to have multiple HDDs in my entertainment center. Will these external storages have to be Microsoft Certified?

Any external USB drive should work cutting upgrade costs by 75%. Though I have to ask why multiple drives? At even 25GB a disc. That's still 20 games you can have installed actively. Get a 2TB drove for $80 that's another 80 games.

 

[Rage187]

That sucks. I'd hate to have multiple HDDs in my entertainment center. Will these external storages have to be Microsoft Certified?

Since they are relying on a specific standard, it's highly unlikely.

 

[Rage187]

I'm still waiting for both Sony and MS to announce that new games will cost $70. It's pure speculation, but prices seem to rise with each new generation.

Not true. Game prices were $50 for a few decades. Hell, I paid $80 or so for FF3. This gen was the first time they went up.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Not true. Game prices were $50 for a few decades. Hell, I paid $80 or so for FF3. This gen was the first time they went up.

I remember Mortal Kombat selling for $80