The Official Xbox One Thread

[gothamhunter]

I actually don't mind the new system wherein the active keyholder, in this case the authorized XBL profile, can play the game. However, the profit sharing aspect of the buy and trade system bothers me. Just how much of a cut does Microsoft and their partners make and I can only surmise that they would like to exercise control over this "marketplace".

There won't exactly be a buyer's or seller's market, just Microsoft's market. It would be in their best interest to stave off any attempts to undermine retail pricing. It bothers me because for some of us, the money from selling MY games will go towards the purchase of a new game. Say for instance every 5 new games I buy, I sell 4 and buy 2 new ones. I just keep one of them. I have no data to back it up, but I believe it's safe to assume that many who sell their games put the money back into the industry by buying a new game.

If the used games market is dead, I can only expect stagnation between high-profile releases. Small time game developers and unknown IPs will be fending for scraps now because gamers in general will have far more aversion to risk. I don't think that's good for anyone in the long-run. It becomes a game of saving money for "safer" purchases instead of stimulating them to keep spending and spending.

MINE

 

[SymphonyX7]

MINE

What? Did you happen to post something similar earlier? I do apologize if this is the case, but I honestly did not see your post nor would have any intention of plagiarizing it if I did.

 

[American Gunner]

The idea of the console not coming with a headset and MS expecting us to use Kinect for that really sucks. Hopefully that won't be true.

 

[BoberFett]

I actually don't mind the new system wherein the active keyholder, in this case the authorized XBL profile, can play the game. However, the profit sharing aspect of the buy and trade system bothers me. Just how much of a cut does Microsoft and their partners make and I can only surmise that they would like to exercise control over this "marketplace".

There won't exactly be a buyer's or seller's market, just Microsoft's market. It would be in their best interest to stave off any attempts to undermine retail pricing. It bothers me because for some of us, the money from selling MY games will go towards the purchase of a new game. Say for instance every 5 new games I buy, I sell 4 and buy 2 new ones. I just keep one of them. I have no data to back it up, but I believe it's safe to assume that many who sell their games put the money back into the industry by buying a new game.

If the used games market is dead, I can only expect stagnation between high-profile releases. Small time game developers and unknown IPs will be fending for scraps now because gamers in general will have far more aversion to risk. I don't think that's good for anyone in the long-run. It becomes a game of saving money for "safer" purchases instead of stimulating them to keep spending and spending.

You're exactly right. As someone else (Doppel?) mentioned earlier, new pricing is supported by used pricing. New games do not exist in a vacuum, the market has to be looked at as a whole, but publishers are myopic and greedy organizations.

 

[cmdrdredd]

IGN is reporting that it is announced that indie developers cannot self publish their titles on xboxone. Sony already announced in Feb that they are allowing self publish.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/22/indie-devs-cant-self-publish-on-xbox-one

 

[mchammer187]

If I could replace my retarded HD-DVR for one I am definitely all over it. Paying $35 a month to rent 2 DVRs is ridiculous

 

[smackababy]

You're exactly right. As someone else (Doppel?) mentioned earlier, new pricing is supported by used pricing. New games do not exist in a vacuum, the market has to be looked at as a whole, but publishers are myopic and greedy organizations.

They already view the used game market as stealing money from them. Of course they want to shut it down. A used sale is the same as a pirated copy. The end user gets the game and they get zero dollars from it.

 

[gothamhunter]

What? Did you happen to post something similar earlier? I do apologize if this is the case, but I honestly did not see your post nor would have any intention of plagiarizing it if I did.

No, I'm claiming ownership of you, you lurker. It's the thing to do around here.

 

[cmdrdredd]

They already view the used game market as stealing money from them. Of course they want to shut it down. A used sale is the same as a pirated copy. The end user gets the game and they get zero dollars from it.

It is already paid for by the retailer before it hits the shelves. Every used copy is a copy purchased already and trades in or bought out by GameStop and put on the shelf as used.

 

[Nintendesert]

It is already paid for by the retailer before it hits the shelves. Every used copy is a copy purchased already and trades in or bought out by GameStop and put on the shelf as used.

You don't understand how MS and other publishers view this.

The physical existence of the disk is irrelevant. You aren't paying for that. You are paying for a license to use the software. MS and other publishers believe that each person that uses that software should be required to purchase a unique license to use that software.

In their minds you reselling or giving away that disk, that license, is a lost sale to them.

This is why licenses are going to be tied to each individual's XBL account. That will stop giving disk away, if you are going to resell it, MS will now get a cut for transferring that license from you to someone else. It's like the AH in Diablo3. Blizzard was getting a cut of those transactions and MS will get a cut of used game license transactions.

This is why at its heart publishers view the used game market as being just as bad as the piracy market. Both are depriving them of a unique license sale to a person.

 

[Aikouka]

so wtf ... does that mean at your buddies house, you can only play it if you go to his house with the disc, log onto your live account, and then play it?

That's what I took away from it. It's essentially no different than what you would have to do if you purchased a XBLA game today and wanted to play it on a friend's 360.

If your buddy wants to keep playing after you leave, and you do not plan to be on for awhile, you will likely be able to leave your account active on that console allowing him to keep playing. You can take the disc with you though, he will not need it (based on what I've read) Then when you need the account back to play at home, he can log you out of his console.

You can also do that currently with XBL-purchased content, but there's one difference that you have to keep in mind: a XBOX Live profile can only exist on one device at a time. That means that instead of logging your friend out, you will have to recover your gamertag to pull it back to your console. I'm not too certain what would happen if someone was currently logged into an account that was being recovered, but I'm guessing that it would most likely log them out.

I think people are ignoring the developer mindset with this issue. Let's assume that the XB1 does indeed have something that'll require payment for a used game, and let's assume that a PS4 does not. In this case the obvious choice for the consumer is to get a PS4, however the developers may be more apt to either focus on XB1 development (possibly to the detriment of PS4 ports) or release more exclusives on the XB1. If I'm a dev, I'm thinking about money, and a system that guarantees every single copy of my game is going to give me some return for my work is a very enticing thing.

If there is an issue with keeping the same frame rate on both consoles with the current level of graphics, it's my assumption that developers will just tweak the graphical fidelity of the X1's software build to reduce the strain. You might see slightly lower draw distances, slightly smaller textures (32MB ESRAM can't make up for large texture sizes), or possibly less "unnecessary frills" on the screen (signs, etc.).

HOWEVER ... if that was the case, then what is stopping my brother and i from paying $30 each to buy a $60 game, and i install it on my hard drive and activate it, then he installs it on his hard drive and just keeps the disc in his drive at all times?

There have been so many statements from various Microsoft personnel that it's hard to keep everything straight, but didn't someone say that once you "lock" the game to your account, the disc was pretty much unnecessary as it just becomes an install disc (you can also download it). So, your brother or anyone else wouldn't be able to use the game disc to play it.

Has anyone seen hard numbers on what the height/width/depth of the Xbox One are? I have a pretty cramped home entertainment system area and worry about things like this.

They said it's slightly bigger than the 360, but no one has stated which 360.

If I could replace my retarded HD-DVR for one I am definitely all over it. Paying $35 a month to rent 2 DVRs is ridiculous

Unless you have an IPTV-based system, this will probably never be possible without a different hardware SKU, because the X1 does not have CableCard or QAM tuners in it.

 

[cmdrdredd]

You don't understand how MS and other publishers view this.

The physical existence of the disk is irrelevant. You aren't paying for that. You are paying for a license to use the software. MS and other publishers believe that each person that uses that software should be required to purchase a unique license to use that software.

In their minds you reselling or giving away that disk, that license, is a lost sale to them.

This is why licenses are going to be tied to each individual's XBL account. That will stop giving disk away, if you are going to resell it, MS will now get a cut for transferring that license from you to someone else. It's like the AH in Diablo3. Blizzard was getting a cut of those transactions and MS will get a cut of used game license transactions.

This is why at its heart publishers view the used game market as being just as bad as the piracy market. Both are depriving them of a unique license sale to a person.

I do understand but they are thinking incorrectly. They want to be paid twice.

 

[purbeast0]

I don't understand why not. PC gaming has had unique keys in each box.

i said on the disc, in the data that is pressed onto the disc.

 

[smackababy]

There have been so many statements from various Microsoft personnel that it's hard to keep everything straight, but didn't someone say that once you "lock" the game to your account, the disc was pretty much unnecessary as it just becomes an install disc (you can also download it). So, your brother or anyone else wouldn't be able to use the game disc to play it.

What MS said was you can take the game over to your friends, they can play it and it will install. When you leave (and take the disc), they can purchase a license and play right away. What they didn't say, was if you left the disc, they could continue to play. It was just a borrowed game, until they upgrade to the licensed version. So, you cannot just pass the disc around to all your friends, but they can borrow (or own, but use the disc).

That is what I took away from it. The idea they charge from used games is complete BS.

 

[smackababy]

i said on the disc, in the data that is pressed onto the disc.

And this can be done, but it would be up to the publishers to implement. A random key code created on each disc isn't that hard to achieve.

MS did state some of the activation things were dependent on the publishers implementation. That is what they could be talking about.

 

[cmdrdredd]

What MS said was you can take the game over to your friends, they can play it and it will install. When you leave (and take the disc), they can purchase a license and play right away. What they didn't say, was if you left the disc, they could continue to play. It was just a borrowed game, until they upgrade to the licensed version. So, you cannot just pass the disc around to all your friends, but they can borrow (or own, but use the disc).

That is what I took away from it. The idea they charge from used games is complete BS.

So you are conjecturing just as much as anyone else. All these reports came from somewhere from someone. Microsoft needs to shut everyone up and come out once and for all with this info.

 

[purbeast0]

There have been so many statements from various Microsoft personnel that it's hard to keep everything straight, but didn't someone say that once you "lock" the game to your account, the disc was pretty much unnecessary as it just becomes an install disc (you can also download it). So, your brother or anyone else wouldn't be able to use the game disc to play it.

there is absolutely no way that is possible if both consoles are offline. how will they "lock" the game to my account if neither of them ever touched online? they would have no idea which console installed the game first if it installed to both consoles, and "locked" it to both consoles.

again, take this scenario into consideration...

i buy a game, install it, and activate it with the "key". my console is online. i can play it off the hard drive because it's installed and activated to my machine. i don't need the disc.

i bring the game to my brothers house who doesn't care about playing online and doesn't have his x1 hooked up online and never will. he installs the game and i tell him to keep the disc so he can play it off the hard drive, using the disc to 'activate' it so he can play it whenever he wants.

how can ms stop this? if you have friends who don't care about online, they could literally split every purchase with a friend.

 

[tential]

I find it interesting reading this thread because it really shows the hatred that MS has gathered over the years. Instead of going off of facts, or waiting for things to become clearer there quite a few people jumping on the FUD and spreading it as if it was fact. It's a stark contract to some other tech companies who don't get as distorted if they don't mention something.

Of course let's not forget the people that are looking for any reason to declare the thing a failure, things like the lack of games shown (even though E3 is right around the corner and the publishers will be showcasing them), lack of information on marketplaces where small devs can publish their stuff, or even the fact they didn't mention deep sea fishing rights (because let's be honest if MS didn't talk about they have to be hiding some fee for it) becomes yet another reason to shout out they won't give MS a dime. The reality is, the early adopters are going to buy it anyways, MS could have said here's the same 360 only now in blue and the fanboys would go nuts. The MS haters aren't going to buy it even if MS gave them money to, and those few people who are trying to decide between the Xbox and the PS4 are going to wait until it's a lot closer to launch and get more solid info.

Having said that, please continue the debates. I really do enjoy the posts (really, they can be informative and some are just plain amusing) arguing if the Xbox will charge you a fee to play games, or use your own internet. I enjoy the posts, really I do.

It's interesting to read the posts an debates because most of it is just blind speculation so it can be funny.

I don't take much stock in the opinion of anyone on these threads of whether the console will be a success though. It's such a small segment of the market that it'd be crazy to and it's clear some people fill find ANY reason to be upset (The E3 thing for example just makes me laugh. So impatient they can't wait 2 weeks).

Either way, it's amusing to see people think that the average Joe (which constitutes the majority of the buying market), will care whether Xbox One has less shaders, or whatever hardware geeks want to argue.

But hey, we can call a winner 5-6 months before something is released while still waiting on lots of facts that aren't released!

 

[purbeast0]

And this can be done, but it would be up to the publishers to implement. A random key code created on each disc isn't that hard to achieve.

MS did state some of the activation things were dependent on the publishers implementation. That is what they could be talking about.

how do you figure that isn't hard to achieve? that would be really hard to achieve and would require every disc that is pressed to be unique. pressing factories aren't designed that way. they are designed to have 1 master copy, and make a billion copies of that disc, bit by bit.

 

[SymphonyX7]

It is already paid for by the retailer before it hits the shelves. Every used copy is a copy purchased already and trades in or bought out by GameStop and put on the shelf as used.

Unfortunately, I don't think they care anymore. Given the exploding costs of creating games, opening additional revenue streams is the only thing they can do to keep the balance sheet positive. $60 may just be the threshold for new games in first world markets unless superinflation occurs. $40 is already a hard sell in emerging markets. I suppose placing themselves conveniently as middlemen by being "facilitators" of the used games market will allow them to recuperate more, but it's not as simple as projecting sales -- unless they figured out the trends in the used games market accurately.

These new consoles with exponentially more powerful hardware will demand more effort to deliver a better experience. Development costs will continue to drive up since gamers these days have an insatiable lust for graphics. Those 360 vs PS3 fanboy wars are about graphics half of the time. Problem is where will their accountants decide to put the toll next?

 

[smackababy]

So you are conjecturing just as much as anyone else. All these reports came from somewhere from someone. Microsoft needs to shut everyone up and come out once and for all with this info.

But my conjecture isn't from Wired, who have already been proven as complete BS. They "broke" the story about having to pay to play a used game. MS already debunked that. Yet, people still think what Wired has been reporting as 100% fact.

I am basing my conjecture on what MS has stated, not some fairy tale, "the sky is falling" conjecture to drum up hits.

The "reports" have come from people who have something to gain from controversy. I am less likely to believe them. If, and when, MS comes out and says exactly what is going on, we will know for sure. Until then, I am not going to cry about some possibility of some garbage I know people don't want. "Oh, bin Laden reportedly involved with development of new Xbox! It is programmed to blow up in your house and kill you unless the Kinect verifies you pray to Allah 5 times a day. This is obvious because MS did not say bin Laden didn't help develop this new system." - see how silly that sounds.

 

[smackababy]

how do you figure that isn't hard to achieve? that would be really hard to achieve and would require every disc that is pressed to be unique. pressing factories aren't designed that way. they are designed to have 1 master copy, and make a billion copies of that disc, bit by bit.

I don't think it would be that hard, if you have a master copy of the game and an extra side bit of code that is generated for each individual pressing. Yes, it would require new steps to set up, but it can't be that hard. Also, there is some new chip for the Blu-ray drive that makes spoofing authentication "impossible", which just means harder as of right now.

But, from your example about offline authentication, yes it would be impossible to verify UNLESS the Xbox requires an internet connection.

 

[purbeast0]

I don't think it would be that hard, if you have a master copy of the game and an extra side bit of code that is generated for each individual pressing. Yes, it would require new steps to set up, but it can't be that hard. Also, there is some new chip for the Blu-ray drive that makes spoofing authentication "impossible", which just means harder as of right now.

But, from your example about offline authentication, yes it would be impossible to verify UNLESS the Xbox requires an internet connection.

heh i'm a developer dude, and what you are mentioning really has nothing to do with developing. sure you can use a random key generator as a developer and put that in code, but to have it actually happen AT PRESSING TIME is not how these things work. so it is a lot more complicated than you think, since no other optical media (to my knowledge) does this. it would require totally new mechanisms in pressing factories to make 10 million different copies of cod:ghosts.

according to the ms faq, they DO require an internet connection.

http://news.xbox.com/2013/05/qa

first question on the list.

 

[BoberFett]

You don't understand how MS and other publishers view this.

The physical existence of the disk is irrelevant. You aren't paying for that. You are paying for a license to use the software. MS and other publishers believe that each person that uses that software should be required to purchase a unique license to use that software.

In their minds you reselling or giving away that disk, that license, is a lost sale to them.

This is why licenses are going to be tied to each individual's XBL account. That will stop giving disk away, if you are going to resell it, MS will now get a cut for transferring that license from you to someone else. It's like the AH in Diablo3. Blizzard was getting a cut of those transactions and MS will get a cut of used game license transactions.

This is why at its heart publishers view the used game market as being just as bad as the piracy market. Both are depriving them of a unique license sale to a person.

If only that were true. Publishers view it as a license when it's convenient, and a physical item as convenient, whatever works best for them.

If it were simply a license, then format shifting should be totally legal. I should be able to rip games, movies, and music to any device I want and access it in the way I want, because I'm licensed to use that content as long as I don't redistribute it.

 

[Chess]

Two things must happen before I commit to the Xbox.

1. Killer Instinct
2. Let me use my iPad as a screen to play my games from bed with the fancy wifi controller. I never get TV time, the only I have to play is when everyone is asleep and I'm laying in bed.

Agree with #1

and your life must suck for #2 to be happening