The Official Kaveri Review Thread (A10-7850K, etc)

[B-Riz]

You have hit on the problem, actually, but I view it much differently than you. People that want cheap, inexpensive boxes dont need the graphics power of an APU, a pentium, or even celeron is fine for them. The APUs are kind of "tweeners" that are more gpu than 90+ % of the users need, but not really powerful enough for uses who want graphics power. They are relegated to a niche, those who want as much graphics power as they can get without adding a discrete card. It also doesnt help that the low end "dual core" APUs with only one module are pretty weak in cpu performance. Their real place is in mobile, but so far, due to using a lot of power, they lose much of their performance advantage in the mobile space. Perhaps mobile Kaveri will improve on this, but that is yet to be seen, and by the time it comes out, it will be nearly time for Broadwell mobile.

Eh, we can talk mobile Kaveri when it show up in the flesh.

This chip is a radical change in what a cheap computer is and what it can do.

This is the PC equivalent of the PS4 and xBox 1 design choices; something capable for now AND the future that can be massed produced easily / cheaply.

Intel low end is still in the "good enough" camp.

They made the on-chip Intel HD Graphics good enough for current (Netlfix / internet streaming video being the "killer app" for most non-power users) basic usage; they still kinda stink for games.

When average user looks at specs and realizes AMD is selling them 4 cores and a better than "good enough" graphics product (mfgs might sell the A8-7600 for more than a Celeron or Pentium, but not priced out of consideration), they will buy it.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Eh, we can talk mobile Kaveri when it show up in the flesh.

This chip is a radical change in what a cheap computer is and what it can do.

This is the PC equivalent of the PS4 and xBox 1 design choices; something capable for now AND the future that can be massed produced easily / cheaply.

Intel low end is still in the "good enough" camp.

They made the on-chip Intel HD Graphics good enough for current (Netlfix / internet streaming video being the "killer app" for most non-power users) basic usage; they still kinda stink for games.

When average user looks at specs and realizes AMD is selling them 4 cores and a better than "good enough" graphics product (mfgs might sell the A8-7600 for more than a Celeron or Pentium, but not priced out of consideration), they will buy it.

I'd call the IGP's in the "Not good enough" camp.

And why do you think consoles are build for the future?
This generation in paticulear, is far behind the performance curve of what is possible on PC's...far more behind than ever before.

In 1-2 years the IGP's of today will look very dated.

 

[ShintaiDK]

When average user looks at specs and realizes AMD is selling them 4 cores and a better than "good enough" graphics product (mfgs might sell the A8-7600 for more than a Celeron or Pentium, but not priced out of consideration), they will buy it.

Kaveri competes CPU wise with Celerons and Pentiums at half the price. Those CPUs are also much more power efficient. So while the GPU part is an upgrade. Its a downgrade in about every other metric out there, including cost. And with the price increase for stagnant performance. AMD made sure OEMs will deslect the chips in even higher amount than they did with previous chips.

 

[CHADBOGA]

because grandma will be installing the lastest version of handbrake regularly. The point is set and forget for non-technical users. They hardly ever explore the system. Install the critical programs like MS office, a few card games and an internet browser and they are good.

Granny wants to rip Game of Thrones off the Blu Ray.

 

[inf64]

Kaveri competes CPU wise with Celerons and Pentiums at half the price. Those CPUs are also much more power efficient. So while the GPU part is an upgrade. Its a downgrade in about every other metric out there, including cost. And with the price increase for stagnant performance. AMD made sure OEMs will deslect the chips in even higher amount than they did with previous chips.

Can you link a review of Celeron or Pentium based on Haswell Vs Kaveri?

 

[Abwx]

Can you link a review of Celeron or Pentium based on Haswell Vs Kaveri?

You can use previous i3s as base for comparisons , it makes
no doubt that even current pentium/celeron are sub par CPUs
compaired to Kaveri , i ll stay silent on the GPU side of thing...

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/913-7/cpu-performances-applicatives.html

 

[ShintaiDK]

Can you link a review of Celeron or Pentium based on Haswell Vs Kaveri?

And thats with outdated benchmarks for older generations.

 

[Abwx]

And thats with outdated benchmarks for older generations.

What is oudated actualy and even irrelevant is the exemple itself
since he asked if you know about a review..

Would you call this single graph a review.?.

 

[Erenhardt]

And thats with outdated benchmarks for older generations.

You forgot to add that 9 out of 19 games in this review used more than 1 thread.
Translation: in those titles athlon X2 athlon X4 or FX4300 FX6300 and FX8300 have the same performance, not matter the number of cores.

Pclamb.pl - as we call them here, is known for their ability to show a data the way they want it to look.

What this graph shows is how much improvemnt kaveri is compared to trninity. Its about 20% faster at the same clocks.

 

[ShintaiDK]

You forgot to add that 9 out of 19 games in this review used more than 1 thread.
Translation: in those titles athlon X2 athlon X4 or FX4300 FX6300 and FX8300 have the same performance, not matter the number of cores.

Pclamb.pl - as we call them here, is known for their ability to show a data the way they want it to look.

Singlethreaded, dualthreaded, FPU heavy, compiled with ICC, payed sites, not testing the right apps and so on. The excuses are endless for Kaveris CPU flop with a high price increase to follow. No 4Ghz, no 30% IPC increase, no nothing besides a tad faster GPU thats even more memory starved.

And all those people that got told how they could always "upgrade" to Kaveri on the forum....

 

[Erenhardt]

Singlethreaded, dualthreaded, FPU heavy, compiled with ICC and so on. The excuses are endless for Kaveris CPU flop with a high price increase to follow. No 4Ghz, no 30% IPC increase, no nothing besides a tad faster GPU thats even more memory starved.

And all those people that got told how they could always "upgrade" to Kaveri on the forum....

Hahaha! Yea, with that logic 1 core intel CPU (sadly there are no more of those) is as fast/faster than 8 core intel server CPU in that scenario and cost only a fraction! intel server CPUs are obnoxious pink flip-flops!

 

[ShintaiDK]

Let me remind you (again) what AMDs PR spin was to be:

AMD's plan to protect Kaveri involved only sending out the A8-7600 and competitive parts. They obviously wanted to protect their new chip from the scrutiny it would get for being no faster in CPU benchmarks at 95W. Even the A10-6700T wasn't part of the original plan, just the slow-poke 6500T.

A product you cant even buy yet either.

 

[inf64]

Following that logic we can be satisfied with single or dual core/dual thread intel chips. Which is nonsense of course... Move along.

 

[NTMBK]

I'd call the IGP's in the "Not good enough" camp.

And why do you think consoles are build for the future?
This generation in paticulear, is far behind the performance curve of what is possible on PC's...far more behind than ever before.

In 1-2 years the IGP's of today will look very dated.

Yes, yes, if it can't run ARMAIII at 200FPS on your CRTs then it's "not good enough", we get it. Would you please grasp that these are products not aimed at you?

 

[Abwx]

Let me remind you (again) what AMDs PR spin was to be:

A product you cant even buy yet either.

Is Scott Wasson from TR , the very site that did cut the FX perfs
of their previous benchmarks when they reviewed Haswell ?

He s of bad faith since Kaveri s 95W parts were available
at retail the same day as the official launch , surely the best
way to "protect your product from scrutinity".....

 

[ShintaiDK]

Following that logic we can be satisfied with single or dual core/dual thread intel chips. Which is nonsense of course... Move along.

Its not getting any better vs the i3 in CPU performance. 95W Kaveri at 173$ vs a 54W 125$ i3 4130.

That one simply runs in circles around Kaveris weak CPU at a fraction of the power usage. The i3 is simply out of reach for AMD CPU wise.

Lets hope Kaveri doesnt display the same characteristics when they some day in the future gets launched for mobile.

 

[inf64]

I won't dignify that with a quote and an answer, not in 2014 .

 

[Abwx]

Its not getting any better vs the i3 in CPU performance. 95W Kaveri at 173$ vs a 54W 125$ i3 4130.

That one simply runs in circles around Kaveris weak CPU at a fraction of the power usage. The i3 is simply out of reach for AMD CPU wise.

Not to mention 65W Richland is obvious not the same as 65W kaveri.

Nice exemple since TR updated their X264 test for AVX2 support ,
that s the most possible favourable power comsumption test for
Haswell , nevermind that Hardware.fr Fritzchess test showed that
it is notably less efficient than IB in perfs/watt , but whatever ,
this is not the subject , actualy TR did this update because HW
would otherwise hardly beat the old FX in this test fps wise...

 

[monstercameron]

Its not getting any better vs the i3 in CPU performance. 95W Kaveri at 173$ vs a 54W 125$ i3 4130.

That one simply runs in circles around Kaveris weak CPU at a fraction of the power usage. The i3 is simply out of reach for AMD CPU wise.

Lets hope Kaveri doesnt display the same characteristics when they some day in the future gets launched for mobile.

you keep posting that chart, check out this link, it shows that different boards can have drastically different power usage
http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/513...d-asrock-asus-and-gigabyte-energy-consumption [note: tested a10-6800k]
so keep on trolling

they are using Gigabyte F2A88XN-WIFI
http://techreport.com/review/25908/amd-a8-7600-kaveri-processor-reviewed/4

 

[pcsavvy]

Boy, I am kind of reminded how one can exaggerate using statistics to back up one's viewpoint. I just want to know about Kaveri, is it an overall improvement over LLano or Trinity. Is Kaveri capable of handling today's OSes, applications and software that are on most computers? How much is the cost in comparison to a comparable Intel cpu? Is this APU a good choice if someone is on a limited budget and needs a system for general usage fairly quickly? What compromises is one making in choosing AMD over Intel? What are the pro's and cons? Is it better to get an APU or Athlon II X4 FM2+ cpu?

 

[parvadomus]

Boy, I am kind of reminded how one can exaggerate using statistics to back up one's viewpoint. I just want to know about Kaveri, is it an overall improvement over LLano or Trinity. Is Kaveri capable of handling today's OSes, applications and software that are on most computers? How much is the cost in comparison to a comparable Intel cpu? Is this APU a good choice if someone is on a limited budget and needs a system for general usage fairly quickly? What compromises is one making in choosing AMD over Intel? What are the pro's and cons? Is it better to get an APU or Athlon II X4 FM2+ cpu?

Kaveri is an improvement obviously dont get fooled by trolls.
For everyday use PC, any processor works. The APUs advantages are HSA, and GPU performance, the Intel CPUs advantage is better per core performance.
If you want a fast OS and responsive system I suggest you to get a SSD.

 

[schmuckley]

Shiet;I'll outbench that thing with a Propus.
Propus>Kaveri

 

[Spawne32]

Singlethreaded, dualthreaded, FPU heavy, compiled with ICC, payed sites, not testing the right apps and so on. The excuses are endless for Kaveris CPU flop with a high price increase to follow. No 4Ghz, no 30% IPC increase, no nothing besides a tad faster GPU thats even more memory starved.

And all those people that got told how they could always "upgrade" to Kaveri on the forum....

As much as i hate agreeing with you, this about sums it up.

 

[Abwx]

they are using Gigabyte F2A88XN-WIFI
http://techreport.com/review/25908/amd-a8-7600-kaveri-processor-reviewed/4

Not only , TR use different power supplies for AMD and Intel systems,
looking at techpowerup numbers it appears that the intel systems
have been granted the most efficient PSU , with efficency being
8-10% better at low power and 7-8% better in the vicinity
of 100W , about the loaded powers.

 

[Abwx]

As much as i hate agreeing with you, this about sums it up.

You think so.?..Let s check the site he s quoting and look
for their "integrity" when reviewing an AMD FX :

http://techreport.com/review/23750/amd-fx-8350-processor-reviewed/10

Let s look at what became thoses numbers when testing HW :

http://techreport.com/review/24879/intel-core-i7-4770k-and-4950hq-haswell-processors-reviewed/12

All scores of the FX have been reduced in the same benches
or the benches have been slightly "enhanced" to make the FX
look bad, i invite everybody to compare the scores in the two
reviews of what has been one of TR most disgusting data
manipulation of theses last years.