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The Official "Hot Damn, Sirius Stock Is Down 15%" Thread **Update, ouch**

theNEOone

Diamond Member
sorry couldn't resist.

From WSJ:

Sirius Satellite
May Be Headed
For Dog Days
Overspending on Stern, NFL
Plus Too-Optimistic Assumptions
Look Like Recipe for a Flameout
December 8, 2004; Page C1

Sirius Satellite Radio is named after the brightest star in the Earth's sky, which is fitting. Stars burn brightest right before they flame out.

The once-desperate No. 2 behind XM Satellite Radio Holdings Inc. has seen its stock rise 340% to $9.01 since mid-August, mainly after the October signing of a five-year, $500 million contract to carry the musings of Howard Stern. Mr. Stern paved the way for Mel Karmazin, the erstwhile satellite-radio skeptic, to come aboard as the chief executive.

Rabid cult-shareholders have taken this to mean that satellite radio is finally legitimate. They are right, in the sense that satellite radio will survive in some fashion. For this, they must thank the terrestrial radio companies, who have defiled their golden goose with robotic programming and assaultive ads every third minute.

But the real lesson from Sirius Satellite Radio Inc.'s binge is that content remains the real king of media. By overpaying for Mr. Stern and for its earlier agreement to carry National Football League games, Sirius has started to crush its own windpipe. Sirius's chief financial officer, David Frear, says the company will break even on the first one million subscribers Mr. Stern generates. They put his fan base at 12 million, though trade magazine Talkers puts it at roughly 8.5 million weekly listeners.

That seems overly optimistic. The problem is that Mr. Stern owes his appeal to the very Federal Communications Commission restrictions he complains about. How many people will want to tune into a Howard Stern who can get away with anything? More important, how long will they stay subscribers?

Worse, Sirius has set a malign precedent, driving up prices not only for XM, its major competitor, but also for any distributor looking to bid on hot content.

Numbers never matter for these echo-bubble sectors, of course, as long as the companies experience hypergrowth. But the valuations of the two stocks -- especially Sirius -- make about as much sense as nudity on the radio. The market value today assumes that Sirius will reach 45 million subscribers. Today it has around 800,000.

Here's how to get to those numbers. Sirius's former chief executive and current chairman, Joe Clayton, hasn't just overpaid for content. He has treated his shares like paper. Thus, the company has a market value of $15.7 billion, using Sirius's own fully diluted share count of 1.74 billion.

In the third quarter, the average monthly revenue per subscriber -- known as ARPU -- was $10.92, well below the $12.95 monthly charge. But for the purposes of this exercise, let us assume the ARPU hits $12. That means each subscriber will generate $144 annually.

In this business, investors look at "contribution margin," which measures the cash flow after the variable costs from that subscriber but before marketing and subscriber acquisition costs. Sirius expects a 70% contribution margin. As a comparison, EchoStar Communications Corp., the satellite-television company, has a margin in the low 40s. With a 70% margin, a subscriber is worth $100 a year to Sirius.

Sirius's churn rate, or the rate at which subscribers drop the service, was 1.5% a month in the third quarter, down from 1.6% the quarter before. Investors and analysts focus on churn, but they overlook that, by simple math, the churn will be overstated at the early stages of rapid growth for any company or service. Subscribers tend to fall off only after a period of time.

Analysts debate where the churn rate will settle. The company thinks it should settle at around 1.7%. For reference, Bruce Leichtman, of the eponymous cable and satellite market-research firm, estimates that satellite television has a 19% annual churn, while cable has a 30% rate, of which more than half comes from people moving homes. Both Sirius and XM have deals with car makers, which raises the question: Will satellite radio suffer greater churn since people switch cars every three years or so? Or will it have lower churn as the companies make plug-and-play models?

Bulls will surely whine, but let's assume a higher rate of 2% monthly, or 24% annually. That means after four years, the equivalent of all the subscribers churn off. A subscriber, then, is worth $400. This is a tad oversimplified because money tomorrow is worth less than money today, but so be it.

Then there is the subscriber acquisition cost, or SAC. This year, Sirius forecasts that its SAC will be $200, down from $293 a year ago. Analysts think that someday SAC should be $50. Grant that to Sirius today and that means a subscriber is worth $350 to Sirius.

With a market cap of almost $16 billion, the market is valuing Sirius as if it reaches already 45 million subscribers all by its lonesome -- on generous unit economics. Today, the entire cable-TV industry has about 67 million subscribers and entire satellite-TV industry has 24 million, according to Leichtman Research.

Sirius is also called the Dog Star. Something to think about.


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Damn. I almost thought about investing in them too.. Ouch...
 
when the hell did everyone and their grandma fin out what sirius is? Did that cvnt Suze Orman or some equivalent recommend it?
 
this is what i've been saying on other forums. I've shorted XMSR 3 times because at some point companies that lose tons of money every year go under. It WILL happen to both SIRI and XM eventually, there just isnt enough of a subscriber base for 2 companies. Look at their financial statements, not their hype.

SLU MD
 
Originally posted by: SLU MD
this is what i've been saying on other forums. I've shorted XMSR 3 times because at some point companies that lose tons of money every year go under. It WILL happen to both SIRI and XM eventually, there just isnt enough of a subscriber base for 2 companies. Look at their financial statements, not their hype.

SLU MD
purchasing stock at this point is about speculation and forcast, financial statements are poor indicators of how a startup company will perform. this problem is particularly magnified in the case of XM and sirius. why? well, because there was a HUGE initial cash investment on the part of both companies. satellites, DJs, litigation w/ the FCC, all cost MILLIONS of dollars. very few other companies require this kind of startup costs and it will take a long time before the financial statements are favorable. they have a lot of ground to cover. (XM less than Sirius).

and don't kid yourself, these are both startup companies - they are both in their infancy and have a lot of potential to grow IMO. i don't see how you can say that there's not enough room for two companies. what's your reasoning for this? most cities have 20+ radio stations, there are at least 5 national satellite tv providers. why would there only be 2 satellite radio providers? in fact, i'd argue that there's room for alot more, if it weren't for the fact that the FCC didn't provide enough frequency space for more than 2 providers.


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Update, harsh day.

Sirius Shares Plunge
In Otherwise Dull Day
For the Stock Market

By SCOTT PATTERSON
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL ONLINE
December 8, 2004

In furious trading, a rising star of the stock market turned into a black hole for investors. Sirius Satellite Radio nosedived 23% to $6.90 on ear-splitting volume of nearly 580 million shares Wednesday -- the sixth highest total for a single stock in the history of the Nasdaq Stock Market.

Bubble-amnesiac traders who'd bid up Sirius in recent days -- the stock had more than doubled since Nov. 1 -- got whiplash after a Wall Street Journal column Wednesday questioned the stock's value and two banks lowered their ratings on the profitless satellite-radio provider. Analysts at Smith Barney and Bear Stearns each issued notes Wednesday morning arguing that the highflying stock simply has flown too high.

[Stock Chart]

The mind-bending volume total, last seen during the frantic trading of the WorldCom scandal in 2002, accounted for roughly 25% of the Nasdaq Stock Market's 2.4 billion shares changing hands. The New York Stock Exchange, however, saw a more modest 1.49 billion in volume despite a strengthening dollar, volatile oil prices and a big slide in gold (the market's other bright spot).
Etc..


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Originally posted by: theNEOone
Originally posted by: SLU MD
this is what i've been saying on other forums. I've shorted XMSR 3 times because at some point companies that lose tons of money every year go under. It WILL happen to both SIRI and XM eventually, there just isnt enough of a subscriber base for 2 companies. Look at their financial statements, not their hype.

SLU MD
purchasing stock at this point is about speculation and forcast, financial statements are poor indicators of how a startup company will perform. this problem is particularly magnified in the case of XM and sirius. why? well, because there was a HUGE initial cash investment on the part of both companies. satellites, DJs, litigation w/ the FCC, all cost MILLIONS of dollars. very few other companies require this kind of startup costs and it will take a long time before the financial statements are favorable. they have a lot of ground to cover. (XM less than Sirius).

and don't kid yourself, these are both startup companies - they are both in their infancy and have a lot of potential to grow IMO. i don't see how you can say that there's not enough room for two companies. what's your reasoning for this? most cities have 20+ radio stations, there are at least 5 national satellite tv providers. why would there only be 2 satellite radio providers? in fact, i'd argue that there's room for alot more, if it weren't for the fact that the FCC didn't provide enough frequency space for more than 2 providers.


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i'm not saying that the stock isnt about speculation and forecast, i'm saying that they will NEVER get enough subscribers to get the company in the black. Yes there are a lot of radio stations around, but they are FREE. thats the huge difference between satellite radio and normal radio. I dont think its something people will pay for. Only time will tell who is correct.

SLU M.D.
 
Originally posted by: SLU MD
i'm not saying that the stock isnt about speculation and forecast, i'm saying that they will NEVER get enough subscribers to get the company in the black. Yes there are a lot of radio stations around, but they are FREE. thats the huge difference between satellite radio and normal radio. I dont think its something people will pay for. Only time will tell who is correct.

SLU M.D.
same thing was said about cable tv vs. public tv back in the 50's (or was it earlier)
same thing was said about satellite tv vs. cable tv (or even public) in the 80s

don't underestimate the power of capitalism, especially when it comes to entertainment.


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