The Official Forza Horizon 2 thread

[sze5003]

Aside for games where you need the dlc because most people play online with it, like Destiny where it's pretty much required if you want to play the extra raids and dailies, etc if people don't like dlc don't buy it. In games like these it's not really required to level up so it's there for those that want the extras. I've never bought any dlc for any game I've ever owned. Just never been interested seeing how little game time I have.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I know that. I just mean that with most games, when you buy a Season Pass, you get all of the planned DLC. Then, you have exceptions like Borderlands 2, where they released the holiday-based DLC after the Pass and charged $3 per-DLC, but that was after all Season Pass obligations were fulfilled. Here, we're talking about getting a $60 game, throwing another $25 at a Season Pass, then having another $20 DLC release before you're even through the release of all Season Pass content. I mean, if you bought the game at MSRP at launch, this has now turned a $60 game into a $105 game.

Yeah, yeah, it's all optional content. Still, it sucks to sit and watch so many developers treat these $60 releases like they're freemium mobile apps, then throw microtransactions and paid content on the side. It almost feels like publishers wanted to raise game prices to meet rising development costs, so they just cut out content from planned games and turned it into paid add-ons, making almost any major game's full experience run customers $80+ nowadays. At the end of the day, it's just harder to buy a game now when you know it's going to have another $20-50 in content in the near-future, because you have to weigh your interest in the content vs. how insanely expensive some DLC is (compared to the amount of content provided).

They never sold a Season pass. It was a CAR pass. I said that and you even quoted me saying you understood. Clearly you don't.

 

[Lil Frier]

Aside for games where you need the dlc because most people play online with it, like Destiny where it's pretty much required if you want to play the extra raids and dailies, etc if people don't like dlc don't buy it. In games like these it's not really required to level up so it's there for those that want the extras. I've never bought any dlc for any game I've ever owned. Just never been interested seeing how little game time I have.

I've bought very little DLC myself, with the Mario Kart 8 DLC being the first I purchased since a couple of Rock Band 2 songs in 2008, but there's a point where, "if you don't like it, don't buy it," loses meaning to me. Like you, I don't really touch DLC, opting to just play the base game. However, it now feels like we're paying $60 for less content, only to get sold more stuff as paid DLC.

I loved Shadow of Mordor and Sunset Overdrive, but both felt somewhat lacking in content. Forza Motorsport 5 might have added better visuals and physics, along with a couple of features, but there's still something that gets to me about cutting content from 500 cars and 26 tracks to 200 cars and 17 tracks (after free DLC was launched). There's just not as much to experience in FM5, and I got burned out on it from replaying the same tracks in the same cars MUCH faster than with FM4. I skipped FH2 due to a similar fear, that the lack of content would grow old too quickly, even though it's a beautiful, detailed world.

I could give more examples, but I've made the point several times, and I'm sure everyone's sick of reading it. It sucks when a game is announced at $60, and then we get "oh, and there will be another $20-50 in DLC soon after launch!" announced before release as well. In some cases (Mario Kart 8), the content is priced fairly and offers some new stuff worth buying. In too many cases (CoD, Forza), you basically end up raising the game's price 50-80% to add 10-20% more content. On its face, just ignore it, but when my $50-60 investment feels like it has about $40 in content, it just gets annoying.

They never sold a Season pass. It was a CAR pass. I said that and you even quoted me saying you understood. Clearly you don't.

How the hell is one different from the other? What did the Forza Motorsport 5 offer? It gave you 61 cars for $50. What does the Forza Horizon 2 Car Pass give you? It gives you 31 cars for $25. The semantics of the names "Season Pass" and "Car Pass" don't change what the thing ultimately is. Does changing the name seriously convince you it's something totally different?

 

[dguy6789]

snip

Borderlands 2 did release paid DLC that season pass holders still had to pay full price to get before all of the season pass content came out.

 

[cmdrdredd]

How the hell is one different from the other? What did the Forza Motorsport 5 offer? It gave you 61 cars for $50. What does the Forza Horizon 2 Car Pass give you? It gives you 31 cars for $25. The semantics of the names "Season Pass" and "Car Pass" don't change what the thing ultimately is. Does changing the name seriously convince you it's something totally different?

The Car pass gives you the new cars not the new events and stuff. This DLC adds new areas of the map.

 

[purbeast0]

I've bought very little DLC myself, with the Mario Kart 8 DLC being the first I purchased since a couple of Rock Band 2 songs in 2008, but there's a point where, "if you don't like it, don't buy it," loses meaning to me. Like you, I don't really touch DLC, opting to just play the base game. However, it now feels like we're paying $60 for less content, only to get sold more stuff as paid DLC.

I loved Shadow of Mordor and Sunset Overdrive, but both felt somewhat lacking in content. Forza Motorsport 5 might have added better visuals and physics, along with a couple of features, but there's still something that gets to me about cutting content from 500 cars and 26 tracks to 200 cars and 17 tracks (after free DLC was launched). There's just not as much to experience in FM5, and I got burned out on it from replaying the same tracks in the same cars MUCH faster than with FM4. I skipped FH2 due to a similar fear, that the lack of content would grow old too quickly, even though it's a beautiful, detailed world.

I could give more examples, but I've made the point several times, and I'm sure everyone's sick of reading it. It sucks when a game is announced at $60, and then we get "oh, and there will be another $20-50 in DLC soon after launch!" announced before release as well. In some cases (Mario Kart 8), the content is priced fairly and offers some new stuff worth buying. In too many cases (CoD, Forza), you basically end up raising the game's price 50-80% to add 10-20% more content. On its face, just ignore it, but when my $50-60 investment feels like it has about $40 in content, it just gets annoying.



How the hell is one different from the other? What did the Forza Motorsport 5 offer? It gave you 61 cars for $50. What does the Forza Horizon 2 Car Pass give you? It gives you 31 cars for $25. The semantics of the names "Season Pass" and "Car Pass" don't change what the thing ultimately is. Does changing the name seriously convince you it's something totally different?

if i purchased a "season pass", without reading what it entails, i would assume it includes all dlc for the first year (season) the game is out.

if i purchased a "car pass, without reading what it entails, i would assume it includes all the dlc cars only.

i also don't understand why everyone thinks that "more cars" automatically means the game is more valuable or something. i never got that. like gt5 or whatever having like a billion cars automatically made it better and more value than forza just for that reason alone. makes no sense to me.

 

[NoSoup4You]

I just picked up this game, and I'm really confused. I assume all the opponents in my early races are "drivatars", and that all the people I'm seeing out on the open road (just random cruising around) are drivatars. Everyone I see drives slowly, follows the lines of the road...etc. Obviously if these were real players they'd be crashing into you and doing random stuff...etc.

So what gives, is this whole game simulated with drivatars? My early race events were just pathetic, opponents clearly slowed down to let me catch up...etc.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I just picked up this game, and I'm really confused. I assume all the opponents in my early races are "drivatars", and that all the people I'm seeing out on the open road (just random cruising around) are drivatars. Everyone I see drives slowly, follows the lines of the road...etc. Obviously if these were real players they'd be crashing into you and doing random stuff...etc.

So what gives, is this whole game simulated with drivatars? My early race events were just pathetic, opponents clearly slowed down to let me catch up...etc.

You have to purposely select multiplayer mode. It's not all online with other people.

Try adjusting drivatar difficulty as well.

 

[sze5003]

I just picked up this game, and I'm really confused. I assume all the opponents in my early races are "drivatars", and that all the people I'm seeing out on the open road (just random cruising around) are drivatars. Everyone I see drives slowly, follows the lines of the road...etc. Obviously if these were real players they'd be crashing into you and doing random stuff...etc.

So what gives, is this whole game simulated with drivatars? My early race events were just pathetic, opponents clearly slowed down to let me catch up...etc.

Yea they are drivatars. I thought they were real too. The races do get harder as you progress. It also is tougher if you don't really upgrade the cars. You can change difficulty for each race before you begin.

 

[Lil Frier]

Borderlands 2 did release paid DLC that season pass holders still had to pay full price to get before all of the season pass content came out.

Yeah, and I said that in my first post. After buying the GotY release of Borderlands 2 on 360 and PC, I never even considered the extra $12 for those packs.

The Car pass gives you the new cars not the new events and stuff. This DLC adds new areas of the map.

OK, and? That doesn't change that the Car Pass and Season Pass are the same thing from FM5 to FH2. Even more, with FM5, Turn 10 gave out free content, in the forms of 3 tracks. With FH2, they took that free content (more places to race) and turned it into paid DLC, basically seeing another money grab available. It's certainly their right to do so, it just sucks when your $60 game turns into a dilemma of paying the extra $20-50 in DLC or not always getting to play with your friends (if they get the DLC and want to enjoy it).

if i purchased a "season pass", without reading what it entails, i would assume it includes all dlc for the first year (season) the game is out.

if i purchased a "car pass, without reading what it entails, i would assume it includes all the dlc cars only.

i also don't understand why everyone thinks that "more cars" automatically means the game is more valuable or something. i never got that. like gt5 or whatever having like a billion cars automatically made it better and more value than forza just for that reason alone. makes no sense to me.

I don't understand why you want to put everything into the same basket here. People didn't like GT5, whatever. However, it's not like FM4 is a vastly inferior racer from the same release window of FM5, but it has more cars/tracks. FM5 is the successor to a really good FM4, but it cut out 50-60% of the content. It's not like I'm saying, "FM4 is better than FM5 because it has more cars and tracks." I'm saying that it's disappointing that FM4's successor has so much less content than it does, as the replay value is hurt by it. I've said that the core gameplay (particularly the rumble triggers) is improved from FM4, but that doesn't change the fact that it sucks to see some of my favorite tracks (Maple Valley, Fujimi Kaido) missing from the track lineup.

While I like FM5 as a racer more than FM4, I found myself putting MUCH more time into FM4 because there was more to do--more races to beat on more tracks. Also, FM4's 60-car Season Pass was $30. The same car count in FM5 is $50. I don't know what to say about that, other than ugh.

 

[cmdrdredd]

OK, and? That doesn't change that the Car Pass and Season Pass are the same thing from FM5 to FH2. Even more, with FM5, Turn 10 gave out free content, in the forms of 3 tracks. With FH2, they took that free content (more places to race) and turned it into paid DLC, basically seeing another money grab available. It's certainly their right to do so, it just sucks when your $60 game turns into a dilemma of paying the extra $20-50 in DLC or not always getting to play with your friends (if they get the DLC and want to enjoy it).

I still don't know why you are ignoring the fact that they never sold any pass for horizon 2 that was not specifically labeled a car pass. There was never any guarantee of free stuff, that wasn't said at any time. Stop being entitled. They could have just as easily held all this back and release horizon 3 for $60 next year.

 

[Lil Frier]

I still don't know why you are ignoring the fact that they never sold any pass for horizon 2 that was not specifically labeled a car pass. There was never any guarantee of free stuff, that wasn't said at any time. Stop being entitled. They could have just as easily held all this back and release horizon 3 for $60 next year.

I never said that there was a guarantee, or even and expectation, of free stuff. All I did was point out that they are charging for content in 2014 (additional racing areas) that they were giving away from their 2013 release. I never even said that they shouldn't/couldn't do it, only that it sucks to have so much paid content post-game because it makes gaming harder to enjoy in a widespread sense. If you like a game a lot, that $60 investment is now a $100 investment, and that narrows the ability to purchase more games. Calling it entitlement because I don't like the extensive paid DLC offerings is moronic, because at no point did I say, "stop charging for DLC, give me it for free." I said it sucks that the full-game experience has become so expensive.

Let me know when there's a point to be made. Calling FH2's DLC a Car Pass doesn't change the fact that it's the same thing as the Season Pass from FM4, FH1, and FM5. They changed the name, that's all. I mean, you're literally arguing a point I've not even made, simply based on the words, "Season" and "Car." I mean, I guess going with "Car Pass," is a big warning sign that, "hey, there's going to be more paid DLC, prepare your wallets," but it doesn't change that the Car Pass is the same content offering as the Season Pass from the previous 3 Forza releases.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Do you own the game?

I do and I will say that I have the same $60 game as I did when I bought it at launch. I didn't lose content, didn't lose any value. So I don't see the problem. They are offering me more of the game I enjoy. If I finished everything and wanted more I might purchase the DLC with more events and such. As it is, I got lots of time out of it with my initial $60 purchase and I am not even close to complete.

 

[Lil Frier]

Now you're just trying to change the subject. I played the demo, didn't buy the game. It doesn't mean that I don't know what the game is, just because I haven't played every bit of it. However, I've had enough Forza games to know how the sales tactics have "evolved" from FM4's $30 Season Pass for 60 cars to FH1's $50 Season Pass that had 36 cars and 1 expansion (plus a free expansion later) to FM5's $50 Season Pass for 60 cars to FH2's $25 Car Pass for 30 cars and $20 Storm Island expansion. I suppose FH2's paid DLC options are pretty in-line with its predecessor ($5 less for FH2, but 6 fewer cars).

Point of it all being, I like playing games to completion. I like having the full experience of what a game has to offer. It sucks that getting a game's full experience has now become such a costly investment (from $50 2 generations ago to $60 + $20-50 in DLC now). In some cases, there is legitimately more content to consume than in the past, and it's why something like the MK8 DLC was an easy buy for me. Then you have Halo 4, where they cut the multiplayer maps down to 10, split them up based on game type/team size (leaving you only 5 or so maps in a given playlist), or you have Forza 5 cut out a crap load of cars, and it feels like those expensive passes are more charging people to fill in removed content, as opposed to add on to a full game experience.

Some, even many, will not care. Like you said, you feel that you got a $60 game, and that's good for you. Others, like myself, wonder why we seem to pay the same (or even more, in some cases) for less content in the past. There are technical features (larger maps, added functionality) for games like Forza that have evolved over the years, but it still doesn't make it easier to swallow a 60% loss of cars and 35% loss of tracks. I'm sure many of those missing cars wouldn't even register in my brain, but then there's the fact that the car I often ran with in a specific class (2002 Camaro SS, my dad's car) is now missing in FM5, and it just irks me.

 

[sze5003]

I'll never understand how you are not getting a full game. There will always be dlc for every game...always. If the game locks out players because they don't have the dlc and prevents them from leveling up or whatever yea you can say you can't experience the full game.

You don't need to pay to win, or anything like that. Whatever they are selling is extra for those that want extra.

 

[Topweasel]

I just picked up this game, and I'm really confused. I assume all the opponents in my early races are "drivatars", and that all the people I'm seeing out on the open road (just random cruising around) are drivatars. Everyone I see drives slowly, follows the lines of the road...etc. Obviously if these were real players they'd be crashing into you and doing random stuff...etc.

So what gives, is this whole game simulated with drivatars? My early race events were just pathetic, opponents clearly slowed down to let me catch up...etc.

They get more difficult later but also it depends on difficulty level. At normal or low you see the Drivatars breaking on straightaways.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Now you're just trying to change the subject. I played the demo, didn't buy the game. It doesn't mean that I don't know what the game is, just because I haven't played every bit of it. However, I've had enough Forza games to know how the sales tactics have "evolved" from FM4's $30 Season Pass for 60 cars to FH1's $50 Season Pass that had 36 cars and 1 expansion (plus a free expansion later) to FM5's $50 Season Pass for 60 cars to FH2's $25 Car Pass for 30 cars and $20 Storm Island expansion. I suppose FH2's paid DLC options are pretty in-line with its predecessor ($5 less for FH2, but 6 fewer cars).

Point of it all being, I like playing games to completion. I like having the full experience of what a game has to offer. It sucks that getting a game's full experience has now become such a costly investment (from $50 2 generations ago to $60 + $20-50 in DLC now). In some cases, there is legitimately more content to consume than in the past, and it's why something like the MK8 DLC was an easy buy for me. Then you have Halo 4, where they cut the multiplayer maps down to 10, split them up based on game type/team size (leaving you only 5 or so maps in a given playlist), or you have Forza 5 cut out a crap load of cars, and it feels like those expensive passes are more charging people to fill in removed content, as opposed to add on to a full game experience.

Some, even many, will not care. Like you said, you feel that you got a $60 game, and that's good for you. Others, like myself, wonder why we seem to pay the same (or even more, in some cases) for less content in the past. There are technical features (larger maps, added functionality) for games like Forza that have evolved over the years, but it still doesn't make it easier to swallow a 60% loss of cars and 35% loss of tracks. I'm sure many of those missing cars wouldn't even register in my brain, but then there's the fact that the car I often ran with in a specific class (2002 Camaro SS, my dad's car) is now missing in FM5, and it just irks me.

You do get the full experience on day one for $60. How do you not understand that? Seriously if you think like that I don't know how you buy any games at all. I will repeat...you do not lose value or content when dlc is released. Your game doesn't have stuff that disappears from what was there on day one. The game is $60 for whatever content is there which we pretty much already knew about. We knew the basic size of the map, most of the cars etc. Like any game, you know what your $60 gets you and that is all it gets you, whatever comes on that disk or in the original download. I am sorry if you feel you should get all the extra stuff they work on after the original game is final. That isn't how it works and as I said, they could easily hold back enough content to charge you an additional $60 later on and brand it as a new game.

For the record there is more content in forza horizon 2 than in the first game. I don't see how we are paying more money for less stuff at all. I just don't understand how you come to the conclusion it isn't a full experience.

 

[purbeast0]

I'll never understand how you are not getting a full game. There will always be dlc for every game...always. If the game locks out players because they don't have the dlc and prevents them from leveling up or whatever yea you can say you can't experience the full game.

You don't need to pay to win, or anything like that. Whatever they are selling is extra for those that want extra.

yeah, he is not making any sense at this point. as i stated earlier, i still have the full $60 game i paid for at launch now. nothing has been removed from the full game. they didn't take anything away and say "oh you now have to pay $30 to get the full game back".

 

[Lil Frier]

I'll never understand how you are not getting a full game. There will always be dlc for every game...always. If the game locks out players because they don't have the dlc and prevents them from leveling up or whatever yea you can say you can't experience the full game.

You don't need to pay to win, or anything like that. Whatever they are selling is extra for those that want extra.

There are some where it will definitely feel like you're missing out on something. Halo 4's dearth of maps (and segmenting) and the sheer volume of missing content from FM4 to FM5 made those tougher to swallow. You have cases like MK8, where the game has a lot going on, and the DLC is priced fairly. That might be so with Storm Island, but I'd need to see what's added to comment. On the flip side, the Season/Car Pass stuff in these games doesn't feel like any kind of decent deal.

Where those differentiate is the purchasing of cars have always felt optional, same with an online FPS' multiplayer maps. However, with a map addition to a contiguous world (like Storm Island or the DLC in Defiance), it feels more mandatory to have a section of the map unreachable, but I guess that's just my perception. Here, Storm Island's not an insanely expensive piece of DLC, so it might actually be a decent buy.

Turn 10's whole approach to paid DLC and such has just felt weird this generation, as they've seemed to have approached it very differently from the rest of the industry (GotY release without Season Pass content, paid DLC outside of the pass coming before the pass content).

You do get the full experience on day one for $60. How do you not understand that? Seriously if you think like that I don't know how you buy any games at all. I will repeat...you do not lose value or content when dlc is released. Your game doesn't have stuff that disappears from what was there on day one. The game is $60 for whatever content is there which we pretty much already knew about. We knew the basic size of the map, most of the cars etc. Like any game, you know what your $60 gets you and that is all it gets you, whatever comes on that disk or in the original download. I am sorry if you feel you should get all the extra stuff they work on after the original game is final. That isn't how it works and as I said, they could easily hold back enough content to charge you an additional $60 later on and brand it as a new game.

For the record there is more content in forza horizon 2 than in the first game. I don't see how we are paying more money for less stuff at all. I just don't understand how you come to the conclusion it isn't a full experience.

In general, I agree, you get a full game that doesn't lose value with DLC, depending on the term, "value." I never really felt like Halo or CoD was less enjoyable without DLC maps, but games with contiguous maps (like Defiance and FH2) feel differently, as there's something of an artificial barrier in the world that seems off. There have been allegations that parts of paid DLC have existed on-disc for games in the past, by the way.

The claim you're throwing out is totally inaccurate. I never said that post-launch DLC should be free, only that it has been at times, and my complaints have about the sometimes-terrible value of DLC when you compare it to the price/content of a full game release (such as CoD's $50 Season Pass).

You're right in saying that there is more in FH2 than its predecessor, and I don't dispute it. I've just stated that the way Turn 10 approached DLC is awkward. That, and having them take the only car I had any attachment to out of FM5 sucked. On the flip side, I would argue that while FH2 doesn't have less content (MUCH bigger map, though 100 fewer cars), FM5 definitely DID have less to do than FM4 (300 fewer cars, 9 fewer maps), so it doesn't ALWAYS feel like a full game (the reason I traded in FM5 quickly for $35 and re-purchased it at $20 later).

It's all perspective, of course, and it's clear I'm not carrying the popular opinion. Like I've said, my opinion's also known and been said several times, so I'm just going to be done arguing something we've argued and disagreed on several times before, because it's ultimately somewhat off-topic and pointless to discuss it further.

 

[foghorn67]

Now you're just trying to change the subject. I played the demo, didn't buy the game. It doesn't mean that I don't know what the game is, just because I haven't played every bit of it. However, I've had enough Forza games to know how the sales tactics have "evolved" from FM4's $30 Season Pass for 60 cars to FH1's $50 Season Pass that had 36 cars and 1 expansion (plus a free expansion later) to FM5's $50 Season Pass for 60 cars to FH2's $25 Car Pass for 30 cars and $20 Storm Island expansion. I suppose FH2's paid DLC options are pretty in-line with its predecessor ($5 less for FH2, but 6 fewer cars).

Point of it all being, I like playing games to completion. I like having the full experience of what a game has to offer. It sucks that getting a game's full experience has now become such a costly investment (from $50 2 generations ago to $60 + $20-50 in DLC now). In some cases, there is legitimately more content to consume than in the past, and it's why something like the MK8 DLC was an easy buy for me. Then you have Halo 4, where they cut the multiplayer maps down to 10, split them up based on game type/team size (leaving you only 5 or so maps in a given playlist), or you have Forza 5 cut out a crap load of cars, and it feels like those expensive passes are more charging people to fill in removed content, as opposed to add on to a full game experience.

Some, even many, will not care. Like you said, you feel that you got a $60 game, and that's good for you. Others, like myself, wonder why we seem to pay the same (or even more, in some cases) for less content in the past. There are technical features (larger maps, added functionality) for games like Forza that have evolved over the years, but it still doesn't make it easier to swallow a 60% loss of cars and 35% loss of tracks. I'm sure many of those missing cars wouldn't even register in my brain, but then there's the fact that the car I often ran with in a specific class (2002 Camaro SS, my dad's car) is now missing in FM5, and it just irks me.

Dude, just buy the game. You've bought others almost indiscriminately.

 

[Lil Frier]

Dude, just buy the game. You've bought others almost indiscriminately.

LOL, what does that even mean?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Porsche car pack coming. Maybe this means that EA is losing the license for Porsche exclusivity.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...-to-the-xbox-one-and-to-forza-horizon-2/23476

 

[smackababy]

Porsche car pack coming. Maybe this means that EA is losing the license for Porsche exclusivity.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...-to-the-xbox-one-and-to-forza-horizon-2/23476

They've done Porsche packs before for Forza 4. I don't think EA minds Porsche being in games, they just don't want it at launch.