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The Official Forza 5 thread

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cmdrdredd said:
Let's see you laser scan an entire track and get it into a game with the detail of forza.

You sure are an armchair game developer aren't you?
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I don't see how your comment invalidates anything I have said.

You take raw data and push it through a process that should be automated in order to identify geometry. This is not soemthing they have to design software to do. There are companies (that my company has delt with) that do this specifically. They sell you the laser scanners and the softwware to convert the field plot to standard 3D file formats. If you can do 1 track you can do 100. And design tools should be able to easily iron out any wrinkles.

That is since you brought up the issues with 3D geomentry specifically.

PS: My current job is to customize CAD tools to make ship design quicker and more efficient.

Why didn't you say that artwork is what is eating up time?

Do since you called me out, what is your background in laser scanning that makes your comment valid?
 
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IHateMyJob2004 said:
I don't see how your comment invalidates anything I have said.

You take raw data and push it through a process that should be automated in order to identify geometry. This is not soemthing they have to design software to do. There are companies (that my company has delt with) that do this specifically. They sell you the laser scanners and the softwware to convert the field plot to standard 3D file formats. If you can do 1 track you can do 100. And design tools should be able to easily iron out any wrinkles.

That is since you brought up the issues with 3D geomentry specifically.

PS: My current job is to customize CAD tools to make ship design quicker and more efficient.

Why didn't you say that artwork is what is eating up time?

Do since you called me out, what is your background in laser scanning that makes your comment valid?
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You don't account for travel time to each track and possible issues with weather etc. not cooperating. You also dont account for the shortened development cycle for the new console. They didn't have two full years on this project.

It doesn't take any expertise to understand that developers have not had the tools to make games very long, for both the xb1 and ps4. They were blind for quite a while before getting hands on with the actual hardware and the software they need to work with. This is why killer instinct doesn't have a full roster at launch. Its also probably why some titles have seen delays being pushed back into next year. They simply aren't ready. Things are not as simple as you make it out to be. Getting everything into the game takes time. Time they simply were not afforded.
 
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Any chance they will release a 'value' Forza 5 in a couple of years with all the core DLC (cars/tracks) that would equal say Forza 4? I'm sort of torn, I love Forza, but I feel somewhat like they're trying to really move us towards the nickel and dime method here.
 
Arkaign said:
Any chance they will release a 'value' Forza 5 in a couple of years with all the core DLC (cars/tracks) that would equal say Forza 4? I'm sort of torn, I love Forza, but I feel somewhat like they're trying to really move us towards the nickel and dime method here.
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Who knows. The problem is the same as killer instinct as I said above. The development time given to them was very short. Microsoft demanded the game at launch.
 
Arkaign said:
Any chance they will release a 'value' Forza 5 in a couple of years with all the core DLC (cars/tracks) that would equal say Forza 4? I'm sort of torn, I love Forza, but I feel somewhat like they're trying to really move us towards the nickel and dime method here.
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It is a bit ridiculous. They've announced that the game will have roughly 200 or so cars, and they're also guaranteeing at least 6 DLC packs of 10 cars each ($50 for the Season Pass). So that means that the cost of the game nearly doubles for the addition of 25% more cars. And it's still got fewer tracks than Forza 4, or Forza 3 for that matter. I understand the "quality over quantity" argument, and I think GT6 is ludicrous for inflating its car count with dozens of reskins of the same car and using models that date back to the PlayStation 2. But at a certain point, the concept of "value for money" does start to creep in, and all the DLC (and especially Day One DLC) starts to feel less like bonus content and more like a shameless cash grab by charging you more for things that could have been included from the get-go. I can see the reason for it, especially with the shortened development window and the requirement of being ready at launch, but it just seems like it could have used another six months in development to make it something that was truly an evolution of what came before. As it stands, for as good as the game may be, it's always going to have the knock against it that it offered so much less than previous generations; if this is truly the next generation, why are we getting less than half the content?
 
Atomic Playboy said:
It is a bit ridiculous. They've announced that the game will have roughly 200 or so cars, and they're also guaranteeing at least 6 DLC packs of 10 cars each ($50 for the Season Pass). So that means that the cost of the game nearly doubles for the addition of 25% more cars. And it's still got fewer tracks than Forza 4, or Forza 3 for that matter. I understand the "quality over quantity" argument, and I think GT6 is ludicrous for inflating its car count with dozens of reskins of the same car and using models that date back to the PlayStation 2. But at a certain point, the concept of "value for money" does start to creep in, and all the DLC (and especially Day One DLC) starts to feel less like bonus content and more like a shameless cash grab by charging you more for things that could have been included from the get-go. I can see the reason for it, especially with the shortened development window and the requirement of being ready at launch, but it just seems like it could have used another six months in development to make it something that was truly an evolution of what came before. As it stands, for as good as the game may be, it's always going to have the knock against it that it offered so much less than previous generations; if this is truly the next generation, why are we getting less than half the content?
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I completely agree with this.

I wont be buying Forza 5 - I wont criticize anyone who does and may in fact be jealous of them. But it doesnt represent good value to me. I'd rather wait until the inevitable GT7 or Forza 6. Hopefully GT7 does not reuse a single PS2 car model.
 
IGN's Forza 5 Review

The Verdict
Forza 5 is gorgeous and smooth as butter, and its utterly enchanting handling makes it a joy to drive hard, but this game is more than just a rock solid technical titan for the Xbox One. It’s an essential destination for the automobile obsessed. It may be lighter on girth than where we left off last generation, and still lacking much-requested features like night racing and rain, but wrestling a car through some of the world’s most legendary corners at the very limits of adhesion has never looked or felt this good on console. As a result Forza 5 is a very hard game for a revhead like myself not to love.

8.8 GREAT
+Stunning visuals
+Genre-leading sound
+Drivatar
+Terrific handling

– Light on tracks
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I can't wait to play this game!!!
 
This is my day one purchase. I skipped Forza 4 because I was kind of burnt out on racing games, so I can't wait to check this one out.
 
Having owned/played 2,3,4 of Forza, I have no interest in a game with fewer tracks. I'd rather have lower detail with 2x the tracks of Forza 4.
 
IHateMyJob2004 said:
Having owned/played 2,3,4 of Forza, I have no interest in a game with fewer tracks. I'd rather have lower detail with 2x the tracks of Forza 4.
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I would rather have a game studio change up the engine physics and models of their cars every couple of releases rather than use models designed almost 13-14 years ago.

This is the problem with these Annual Franchise games. And I am glad to see someone breaking from it. Don't be so afraid to do a complete rebuild every once an awhile to match current technology, instead of reapplying new skins to old models in an archaic engine developed for hardware with 1/8th the resources of today's systems.
 
One thing from the reviews that makes me uncomfortable: apparently, you're no longer rewarded with cars for leveling up, and you can't drive anything you want in free play (you are limited to your own garage or "renting" a car). One of the BEST things that Forza did over Gran Turismo was feeling more like a game in the sense of giving you unlocks that allow you to compete in new races. Getting rid of that means going to the more Gran Turismo style of cash grinding, and with the limited number of tracks, that sounds more like a chore than a game. IGN and Eurogamer both make mention to the lack of rewards as a problem, and one that I think would become very annoying as you were trying to afford better cars for the higher level races.

And apparently the cloud-based drivatar system turns the AI into complete assholes (this is verbatim from a review). It makes things unpredictable, which can be good, but it means you'll be swapping paint as the AI crashes into you for no apparent reason, and that sounds... well, stupid, frankly. Forza's AI has been pretty consistently good; why replace it with the driving behavior of 13-year-old Xboxers treating you as another obstacle they can smash into?

I wasn't getting an Xbox One anytime soon regardless, but I had high hopes for this game. And it's probably still very good. It just sounds like a massive step backwards from Forza 4 in terms of content and overall game design. That's a damn shame.
 
Atomic Playboy said:
One thing from the reviews that makes me uncomfortable: apparently, you're no longer rewarded with cars for leveling up, and you can't drive anything you want in free play (you are limited to your own garage or "renting" a car). One of the BEST things that Forza did over Gran Turismo was feeling more like a game in the sense of giving you unlocks that allow you to compete in new races. Getting rid of that means going to the more Gran Turismo style of cash grinding, and with the limited number of tracks, that sounds more like a chore than a game. IGN and Eurogamer both make mention to the lack of rewards as a problem, and one that I think would become very annoying as you were trying to afford better cars for the higher level races.

And apparently the cloud-based drivatar system turns the AI into complete assholes (this is verbatim from a review). It makes things unpredictable, which can be good, but it means you'll be swapping paint as the AI crashes into you for no apparent reason, and that sounds... well, stupid, frankly. Forza's AI has been pretty consistently good; why replace it with the driving behavior of 13-year-old Xboxers treating you as another obstacle they can smash into?

I wasn't getting an Xbox One anytime soon regardless, but I had high hopes for this game. And it's probably still very good. It just sounds like a massive step backwards from Forza 4 in terms of content and overall game design. That's a damn shame.
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I thought the same thing about the car/level awards... So, we'll see about that.

As for the previous Forzas' AI, it was very predictable and repetitive. I'm very much looking forward to Drivatar. I think it's way too early to conclude that the AI is "complete assholes". Btw, which review said that?
 
Atomic Playboy said:
One thing from the reviews that makes me uncomfortable: apparently, you're no longer rewarded with cars for leveling up, and you can't drive anything you want in free play (you are limited to your own garage or "renting" a car). One of the BEST things that Forza did over Gran Turismo was feeling more like a game in the sense of giving you unlocks that allow you to compete in new races. Getting rid of that means going to the more Gran Turismo style of cash grinding, and with the limited number of tracks, that sounds more like a chore than a game. IGN and Eurogamer both make mention to the lack of rewards as a problem, and one that I think would become very annoying as you were trying to afford better cars for the higher level races.

And apparently the cloud-based drivatar system turns the AI into complete assholes (this is verbatim from a review). It makes things unpredictable, which can be good, but it means you'll be swapping paint as the AI crashes into you for no apparent reason, and that sounds... well, stupid, frankly. Forza's AI has been pretty consistently good; why replace it with the driving behavior of 13-year-old Xboxers treating you as another obstacle they can smash into?

I wasn't getting an Xbox One anytime soon regardless, but I had high hopes for this game. And it's probably still very good. It just sounds like a massive step backwards from Forza 4 in terms of content and overall game design. That's a damn shame.
Click to expand...

I don't know I kind of like the whole Drivatar feature. I think Forza and all simulators where going to basically die out slowly and with a yawn. AI convoys are basically number 1 most hated things about previous games. Constantly lap after lap of the same cars taking the same lines. Acting like brick walls that make no care of where any other car is. Drivatar basically makes it more realistic to human drivers and probably keeps multi-player game play being seeing such a jarring difference.
 
I was really impressed graphically playing the game at the Microsoft store this past weekend. It looked amazing and I almost wanted to return my PS4 for an X1 with Forza.

Sadly, I'll have to wait for Forza 6 or just hold out for GT7. Biggest issue with playing it was the controller. I've only ever used a wheel for racing games and I just can't justify adding a third wheel to my lineup (Logitech G27, Fanatec CSR) at this time. In a couple years I'll be ready to though and hopefully Forza 6 will have the content 4 did.
 
The reviews seem to all be in agreement Forza 5 is the best looking next gen game so far and it is amazing if you're into racing "sim".

The only complaints I'm seeing on metacritic are the lack of content. Not as many cars or tracks as previous Forza.

The reviews seem to praise the Drivatar and only one seemed to think it was something that doesn't change anything (granted, I have always been skeptical on reviewers ability to actually play games). I can see how the current version hasn't learned enough to not be super aggressive (because plenty of people drive like that) and needs some time to really adjust to be truly close to average people.

82 overall is pretty good for a launch title.
 
Wingznut said:
I thought the same thing about the car/level awards... So, we'll see about that.

As for the previous Forzas' AI, it was very predictable and repetitive. I'm very much looking forward to Drivatar. I think it's way too early to conclude that the AI is "complete assholes". Btw, which review said that?
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Joystiq: "The problem with these cloud people, as I've come to call them, is that they're a bunch of assholes. In fact, I'm told that my Drivatar is evil incarnate as well, even though I try to drive with some modicum of politeness, taking my corners cleanly without using other cars as brake padding." [The author goes on to say that he likes the cloud AI feature specifically because of the unpredictability it offers, so he's not being negative]

Eurogamer: "In principle, it's a smart idea - while you're playing, your behaviour is recorded, assembled and then uploaded to the cloud, from which an avatar is seeded and competes on your behalf (and from which you can earn credits when not actively playing yourself). In practice, it's a backwards step, with erratic AI contributing to offline events that feel like an ill-mannered online scuffle where racing etiquette is thrown out the window.

Why have just the one braking point when you can have two? And why not have a quick dab of the brake in the middle of a straight? The unpredictable driving of others creates too many needless scraps - it's a good thing that Forza's rewind feature is intact, though it's a shame you have to put into use so many times because of the AI. The data that's in there is pooled from a good number of players, pulled from Turn 10 and Microsoft - so you'd have thought it'd be of a reasonable quality. There's the potential for it to improve over time, but right now the Xbox One's heavily touted cloud rains down a thunderstorm of idiocy."
 
IHateMyJob2004 said:
Having owned/played 2,3,4 of Forza, I have no interest in a game with fewer tracks. I'd rather have lower detail with 2x the tracks of Forza 4.
Click to expand...

Same here. I've been playing Forza since the first one. I've purchased each on launch day, but I'll be skipping this one. 14 tracks including the test track and top gear track is a deal breaker for me. Arstechnica said the game got really repetitive after a few hours due to the limited track selection. Forza 2 ran into that problem as well. The original Forza had a ton of tracks, including one of my favorites, the fictional Blue Mountain Raceway. Forza 2 cut it down to 12 + some infield circuits on the test track. It was a huge disappointment because it became so boring to run the same tracks over and over. Eventually the series bulked back up 23 unique locations with many circuit layouts. Now we are cut back to only 12.

The original Forza for the original Xbox had the most fun tracks 🙂 I remember the point to point races being incredibly novel after coming from GT.

I'm not as bothered by the limited number of cars. 200 is still more than I'd ever get through. I usually stick to 4-5 for the entire game.

By the time I get a Xbox One, the game will probably have the Ultimate edition out for cheap anyway.
 
Atomic Playboy said:
Joystiq: "The problem with these cloud people, as I've come to call them, is that they're a bunch of assholes. In fact, I'm told that my Drivatar is evil incarnate as well, even though I try to drive with some modicum of politeness, taking my corners cleanly without using other cars as brake padding." [The author goes on to say that he likes the cloud AI feature specifically because of the unpredictability it offers, so he's not being negative]

Eurogamer: "In principle, it's a smart idea - while you're playing, your behaviour is recorded, assembled and then uploaded to the cloud, from which an avatar is seeded and competes on your behalf (and from which you can earn credits when not actively playing yourself). In practice, it's a backwards step, with erratic AI contributing to offline events that feel like an ill-mannered online scuffle where racing etiquette is thrown out the window.

Why have just the one braking point when you can have two? And why not have a quick dab of the brake in the middle of a straight? The unpredictable driving of others creates too many needless scraps - it's a good thing that Forza's rewind feature is intact, though it's a shame you have to put into use so many times because of the AI. The data that's in there is pooled from a good number of players, pulled from Turn 10 and Microsoft - so you'd have thought it'd be of a reasonable quality. There's the potential for it to improve over time, but right now the Xbox One's heavily touted cloud rains down a thunderstorm of idiocy."
Click to expand...
Call me skeptical... But there are plenty of reports of how good Drivatar is. I'll make up my own mind this weekend. 🙂
 
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