The official Electric Car discussion thread

[Brovane]

Because if oil and gas companies get them it improves their bottom line and theoretically lowering prices for all. I don't support tax breaks for corporations either though.
The problem as for an individual, because why? I don't see a benefit to society by rewarding vehicles that if the electricity comes from coal or oil or ng don't solve pollution or they get preferential treatment in car pool lanes, why again? Its still one person congesting the highway.
If the technology was ready to stand on its own it wouldn't need a huge incentive to make it attractive for the consumer market with hundreds of choices already there.

I'm a fan of electric vehicles when the day comes the batteries offer a similar experience to a FF driven vehicle in cost, range, and convenience. The drive train is just more efficient by a long shot, its the energy storage that sucks.

Now the argument here is this will spur the development of battery tech for vehicles. I'd rather improve ICE as there are gains to be made and wait until batteries improve from the electronics market as their development is driven there.

I guess you are also against the Mortgage Interest Tax Deduction and Tax Credits for children? Also a electric car even if the electricity comes from Natural Gas or Coal the vehicle will put out less polution than a typical internal combustion vehicle because of the efficiences in power plants versus small engines. The electrical grid becomes cleaner and cleaner every year on average so electricity becomes cleaner. So essentially a electric car becomes cleaner and cleaner every year. You cannot say the same thing about a internal combustion vehicle.

 

[Brovane]

The problem is the perception is a reality. Sure, there might be a few near you, but not nearly as many as their are gas stations.

And then what if I want to go outside of my local area? Do I need a special app or GPS to map my route specifically through places where I can charge? That simply isn't the case with gas powered cars.

Why would their be as many EV charging stations as Gas Stations? It isn't like I can take my Gas car home and plug it into a outlet and refuel it. Everyone that has access to a electrical outlet where they park their vehicle has ability to re-charge a EV.

 

[smackababy]

Why would their be as many EV charging stations as Gas Stations? It isn't like I can take my Gas car home and plug it into a outlet and refuel it. Everyone that has access to a electrical outlet where they park their vehicle has ability to re-charge a EV.

Everyone does? Because, I sure don't. And I'm going to guess that even some of those that don't live the condo life don't have a 240 free up in the garage to charge it.

The point is, a charge at home only works if you are only going to and from home within the distance of a single charge. If I want to drive my A5 from Chicago to LA, I can do it no problem. I am almost never within 50 miles of a gas station. If I was going to attempt that in a Tesla, I'd likely not make. I would have to plan my route according to a mapping of charge stations and hope that on those large intervals where there aren't ones, I don't run out of juice. It isn't like I can just hitch a ride to the nearest gas stations and refill a battery.

Also, there claims to be a lot of Tesla chargers in my area, yet I couldn't tell where a single one it. They are either hard to spot, unadvertised, or not really there. Can't say that is the case with gas stations.


I am also a bit curious how the charging stations work. Do you pay a flat fee or what you use in energy? It can't possible be free.

 

[Brovane]

Everyone does? Because, I sure don't. And I'm going to guess that even some of those that don't live the condo life don't have a 240 free up in the garage to charge it.

The point is, a charge at home only works if you are only going to and from home within the distance of a single charge. If I want to drive my A5 from Chicago to LA, I can do it no problem. I am almost never within 50 miles of a gas station. If I was going to attempt that in a Tesla, I'd likely not make. I would have to plan my route according to a mapping of charge stations and hope that on those large intervals where there aren't ones, I don't run out of juice. It isn't like I can just hitch a ride to the nearest gas stations and refill a battery.

Also, there claims to be a lot of Tesla chargers in my area, yet I couldn't tell where a single one it. They are either hard to spot, unadvertised, or not really there. Can't say that is the case with gas stations.


I am also a bit curious how the charging stations work. Do you pay a flat fee or what you use in energy? It can't possible be free.

I didn't say everyone does. I said that everyone that has access to a electrical outlet where they park their car has the ability to refuel a EV. You can drive with a Tesla from LA to Chicago. You would need to take a certain route but you could make the drive without issue. Have you actually looked up the address of a Tesla Super-Charging station and actually tried to look for it or are you just pretending? Unlike Gas Stations- Tesla super-charging stations don't need to be highly visable as part of a marketing like a gas station would be. The Tesla Super-Charging station access is free for the life of the vehicle. It is baked into the cost of the vehicle so in some way you pay for it. However your incure no additional incremental cost for using the super-charging station like you do with a gas station.

 

[smackababy]

I didn't say everyone does. I said that everyone that has access to a electrical outlet where they park their car has the ability to refuel a EV. You can drive with a Tesla from LA to Chicago. You would need to take a certain route but you could make the drive without issue. Have you actually looked up the address of a Tesla Super-Charging station and actually tried to look for it or are you just pretending? Unlike Gas Stations- Tesla super-charging stations don't need to be highly visable as part of a marketing like a gas station would be. The Tesla Super-Charging station access is free for the life of the vehicle. It is baked into the cost of the vehicle so in some way you pay for it. However your incure no additional incremental cost for using the super-charging station like you do with a gas station.

I have looked them up in my area and there are a ton of public ones. However, I couldn't point a single one out, despite knowing they are around. It makes no sense to not have these areas known, especially when a large majority of people either don't have access to a home charging station. Charging stations need to be visible or you don't get customers willing to even consider a Tesla because they have the perception of no place to charge it.

Sure, you could drive from LA to Chicago, but you'd have to do some route planning before hand and hope you planned correctly and driving conditions remain constant. Something you don't have to do in a gas vehicle.

I didn't know they were free. That is nice.

 

[Brovane]

I have looked them up in my area and there are a ton of public ones. However, I couldn't point a single one out, despite knowing they are around. It makes no sense to not have these areas known, especially when a large majority of people either don't have access to a home charging station. Charging stations need to be visible or you don't get customers willing to even consider a Tesla because they have the perception of no place to charge it.

Sure, you could drive from LA to Chicago, but you'd have to do some route planning before hand and hope you planned correctly and driving conditions remain constant. Something you don't have to do in a gas vehicle.

I didn't know they were free. That is nice.

Are you looking for Tesla Super-Charging stations or Standard Public EV Charging stations? I see public charging stations all the time here in Orange County CA. The Super-charging stations are spaced out around 150 miles apart so you would have to be trying to run out of juice to actually not be able to get in-between charging. Their is a significant range cushion to take into account driving conditions etc with how they are spaced. Some more planning is involved but from watching online videos the Super-charging stations are already programmed into the GPS unit in the Tesla car along with public charging stations. So it isn't really that difficult to plan the route using the stations.

 

[desy]

I'm against tax breaks for mortgages, yes, but not breaks for kids, investing in kids is a future investment.

You also don't give IC enough credit
http://nautil.us/issue/7/waste/the-combustion-engine-refuses-to-die


"The gasoline engine is a fast-moving target. In fact, the irony may be that it is moving faster than some of the technologies that are threatening to replace it. Carbon emissions of U.S. autos are on track to decline by 2.1 percent per year, while emissions from power plants are falling at a projected rate of less than 1 percent per year, says DeCicco. It is these plants, two thirds of which use fossil fuels, that power electric cars. In fact, the Union of Concerned Scientists has stated in a report that battery-powered vehicles do not hold a clear greenhouse advantage over the best gasoline or hybrid models in U.S. states that rely heavily on coal-generated electricity.

Even the average gasoline engine may soon approach its electric rival in terms of grams of carbon dioxide released per mile. “With nothing borrowed from Star Trek, we’ve developed a Ford Focus program with carbon dioxide output of 97 grams per kilometer,” Apostolos says of Ricardo. “In the 2040 time frame, we’ll get that to 30 grams, which makes internal combustion engines competitive with electric vehicles.” And then of course there is cost: Batteries need to become 10 times cheaper, and improve their energy density by 100 times, to match gasoline"

 

[Brovane]

I'm against tax breaks for mortgages, yes, but not breaks for kids, investing in kids is a future investment.

You also don't give IC enough credit
http://nautil.us/issue/7/waste/the-combustion-engine-refuses-to-die


"The gasoline engine is a fast-moving target. In fact, the irony may be that it is moving faster than some of the technologies that are threatening to replace it. Carbon emissions of U.S. autos are on track to decline by 2.1 percent per year, while emissions from power plants are falling at a projected rate of less than 1 percent per year, says DeCicco. It is these plants, two thirds of which use fossil fuels, that power electric cars. In fact, the Union of Concerned Scientists has stated in a report that battery-powered vehicles do not hold a clear greenhouse advantage over the best gasoline or hybrid models in U.S. states that rely heavily on coal-generated electricity.

Even the average gasoline engine may soon approach its electric rival in terms of grams of carbon dioxide released per mile. “With nothing borrowed from Star Trek, we’ve developed a Ford Focus program with carbon dioxide output of 97 grams per kilometer,” Apostolos says of Ricardo. “In the 2040 time frame, we’ll get that to 30 grams, which makes internal combustion engines competitive with electric vehicles.” And then of course there is cost: Batteries need to become 10 times cheaper, and improve their energy density by 100 times, to match gasoline"

I see the purchase and adoption of Electric Cars as a investment in the future. So I am fine with Tax Credits. Also as I alluded to the US electrical grid is becoming cleaner and cleaner. It is much easier to control emissions at the Power Plants that it is to deal with Millions and millions of tail pipes. Also batteries don't need to match gasoline in energy density. Why? Because Electric motors are more efficient at transfering that energy to move the vehicle than a gasoline or diesel powered car.

 

[desy]

I don't see it as an investment in the future, there are competing technologies, may the best one win
As the article pointed out the grid is getting efficient but at a slower rate than that of IC engines, so it a misplaced conception that electric vehicles are cleaner going forward in the near to mid future. Ultimately though I believe all electric will win out

I still can't go anywhere near as far or refuel in 15 minutes in a electric vehicle until then there are too many compromises

 

[tweakmonkey]

I don't see it as an investment in the future, there are competing technologies, may the best one win
As the article pointed out the grid is getting efficient but at a slower rate than that of IC engines, so it a misplaced conception that electric vehicles are cleaner going forward in the near to mid future. Ultimately though I believe all electric will win out

I still can't go anywhere near as far or refuel in 15 minutes in a electric vehicle until then there are too many compromises

Maybe the grid is "getting efficient" at a slower rate but electric vehicles are way more efficient than gas cars - such a major gap separates the two that gas cars will never close. I don't know if you're considering this with your message but..

From fueleconomy.gov:

Energy efficient. Electric vehicles convert about 59–62% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels—conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 17–21% of the energy stored in gasoline to power at the wheels.*

However you do the math, there's just no comparison on efficiency. Sure you have to build batteries and all that, but once the vehicles are running gas powered cars suck down way more energy per mile than electric. This has always been the case.

 

[desy]

Of course I think of where the electricity comes from. In the US, half from coal

"According to Hans-Dieter Schilling (Energie-Fakten), the average efficiency of all coal power stations in the world currently stand at around 31%"

now add in transmission loses and so on, that changing the math for you?

Now since I live where theres snow on the ground 6 months of the year

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...rply-cuts-range-of-electric-vehicles/6622979/

The range of electric vehicles can be greatly reduced, by up to 57% , depending on the temperature outside, auto club AAA says.

The AAA Automotive Research Center in Southern California found that the average range of an electric car dropped 57% in very cold weather

How's that math looking?

I've never argued that electric is a much better driveline I've only ever argued the batteries suck and still do. maybe suitable for California but a long way to go a lot of the world over

http://time.com/87956/fuel-efficien...ed:+time/business+(TIME:+Top+Business+Stories)

“EVs have been a disappointment, compared to what we expected,” Morgan Stanley analyst Ravi Shanker flatly said, according to Automotive News. “Their cost hasn’t come down enough. Batteries haven’t gotten better. And gas prices haven’t gone up like everyone expected. And at the same time, the automakers have done a great job of making the internal combustion engine better.”

from fueleconomy.gov should you have mentioned it

EVs do, however, face significant battery-related challenges:
•Driving range. Most EVs can only go about 100–200 miles before recharging—gasoline vehicles can go over 300 miles before refueling.
•Recharge time. Fully recharging the battery pack can take 4 to 8 hours. Even a "quick charge" to 80% capacity can take 30 min.
•Battery cost: The large battery packs are expensive and may need to be replaced one or more times.
•Bulk & weight: Battery packs are heavy and take up considerable vehicle space.

 

[bigi]

Of course I think of where the electricity comes from. In the US, half from coal

"According to Hans-Dieter Schilling (Energie-Fakten), the average efficiency of all coal power stations in the world currently stand at around 31%"

now add in transmission loses and so on, that changing the math for you?

Now since I live where theres snow on the ground 6 months of the year

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...rply-cuts-range-of-electric-vehicles/6622979/

The range of electric vehicles can be greatly reduced, by up to 57% , depending on the temperature outside, auto club AAA says.

The AAA Automotive Research Center in Southern California found that the average range of an electric car dropped 57% in very cold weather

How's that math looking?

I've never argued that electric is a much better driveline I've only ever argued the batteries suck and still do. maybe suitable for California but a long way to go a lot of the world over

http://time.com/87956/fuel-efficien...ed:+time/business+(TIME:+Top+Business+Stories)

“EVs have been a disappointment, compared to what we expected,” Morgan Stanley analyst Ravi Shanker flatly said, according to Automotive News. “Their cost hasn’t come down enough. Batteries haven’t gotten better. And gas prices haven’t gone up like everyone expected. And at the same time, the automakers have done a great job of making the internal combustion engine better.”

from fueleconomy.gov should you have mentioned it

EVs do, however, face significant battery-related challenges:
•Driving range. Most EVs can only go about 100–200 miles before recharging—gasoline vehicles can go over 300 miles before refueling.
•Recharge time. Fully recharging the battery pack can take 4 to 8 hours. Even a "quick charge" to 80% capacity can take 30 min.
•Battery cost: The large battery packs are expensive and may need to be replaced one or more times.
•Bulk & weight: Battery packs are heavy and take up considerable vehicle space.

"Quality" info, exactly same type as North Koreans are being fed with.

Now, which oil company you or daddy work for?

 

[dguy6789]

"Quality" info, exactly same type as North Koreans are being fed with.

Now, which oil company you or daddy work for?

I'm sure you've convinced us all with your well thought out rationale in this conversation.

 

[desy]

http://www.zdnet.com/electric-cars-and-plug-in-hybrids-are-a-fail-7000015899/
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304011304579221731931398874
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21578679-electric-car-stalls-race-be-green-wheels-future-not
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/currency/2013/10/why-electric-vehicles-have-stalled.html
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/e0264dd8-d44b-11e3-bf4e-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3138T1YjW

ZDnet Wall Street Journal Financial Times The New Yorker The Economist, and on and on, current articles from within the last year.
All see fault with EV's, and in every article its cost/batteries/charging infrastructure
What convincing info do you have for a differing opinion?

 

[ChronoReverse]

Of course I think of where the electricity comes from. In the US, half from coal

"According to Hans-Dieter Schilling (Energie-Fakten), the average efficiency of all coal power stations in the world currently stand at around 31%"

USA average for coal is 34% but all the other energy sources in the other half are much more efficient. For example nuclear power is about 19% of national USA power and you basically don't have to worry about CO2 emissions and its "efficiency" is entirely orthogonal to combustion types (meaningless to compare).


Now, a modern gasoline engine has a maximum efficiency of about 25-30% which doesn't sound too far off. However, that's only IF you drive it nicely (powerplants obviously run in the efficient band constantly) and not counting traffic jams where idling engines have 0% efficiency while electric vehicles only use a trickle (unless the AC is on, then it's still a modest amount of electricity).


The inherent cons with electric vehicles are real, but any argument that they're less efficient is extremely fallacious.

 

[Brovane]

Now since I live where theres snow on the ground 6 months of the year

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...rply-cuts-range-of-electric-vehicles/6622979/

The range of electric vehicles can be greatly reduced, by up to 57% , depending on the temperature outside, auto club AAA says.

The AAA Automotive Research Center in Southern California found that the average range of an electric car dropped 57% in very cold weather

space.

You bring up a good point about weather. From my reading Tesla has been the only manufacturer to design a EV that handles cold weather well. They do this by applying thermal control to the battery to keep it from getting to cold if left out overnight. A Tesla's range well not drop by nearly 50% in cold weather, drivers in Norway have found about a 10% drop. The key with a Tesla that if you leave the car out over-night you need to be able to plug it in so the car doesn't drain battery power to warm the battery. However the other EV manufacturers seem to ignore any thermal controls on the battery in cold weather. So in cold weather as the battery gets colder the range drops. The engineering is there to mitigate severe range loss in cold weather. It is just that most EV manufacturers don't implement anything to warm the batteries.

 

[Brovane]

http://www.zdnet.com/electric-cars-and-plug-in-hybrids-are-a-fail-7000015899/
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304011304579221731931398874
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21578679-electric-car-stalls-race-be-green-wheels-future-not
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/currency/2013/10/why-electric-vehicles-have-stalled.html
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/e0264dd8-d44b-11e3-bf4e-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3138T1YjW

ZDnet Wall Street Journal Financial Times The New Yorker The Economist, and on and on, current articles from within the last year.
All see fault with EV's, and in every article its cost/batteries/charging infrastructure
What convincing info do you have for a differing opinion?

The problem is that most of this articles are from 2013. They also either ignore Tesla or talk in vague terms about Tesla. The EV market is rapidly evolving being driven by Tesla. If you look at all the other EV manufacturers out their besides Tesla you see some serious issues. The EV's being made are basically 2nd cars or purely short range commuter cars with serious limitations. However when you get to the Tesla Model S this changes. Even within the past 6-months the Super-charging network is rapidly evolving. It wasn't possible 6-months ago to drive a Tesla Model S across the US using Super-Charging stations. Now you can. They are opening a new one at the rate of about 1 a week. This is a fairly rapid change that articles from 6/2013 do not take into account. The Super-Charging infrastructure takes away of the charging issues if you own a Tesla. Cost of batteries is a concern but Tesla knew this going in so they made a higher end EV luxury car in the 80-100k range to market to these people. They could bury the cost of a battery easier in a 90k car than you can in a 30k car. This is strategy and the articles seem to call into question that they don't have a cheaper call. Well that is their current business strategy. Tesla didn't have the capital to go in and make a $30k car. They did have the capital to make a lower volume luxury car. Now Tesla is looking at moving forward to make a lower end car but they are looking at a large factory to make batteries to drop the cost. It is like the articles ding Tesla for having a sound business strategy. You learn to walk before you run.

 

[desura]

Here's something I"m wondering...

IT seems to me that hybrid tech is pretty elegant. Overall hybrids should be more reliable to ICE cars and require less maintenance, while providing better mileage, because the electric elements help to reduce wear to the ICE from stop and go driving.

So why don't we see more heavy-duty vehicles using electric/hybrid drivetrains? Like, hybrid tech probably would do the most good if put into the Ford F-150 truck. And since the electric motor could make lots of torque, that would be ideal, no? Or especially things like long-haul trucks, buses, and other heavy industrial vehicles.

 

[vi edit]

So why don't we see more heavy-duty vehicles using electric/hybrid drivetrains? Like, hybrid tech probably would do the most good if put into the Ford F-150 truck. And since the electric motor could make lots of torque, that would be ideal, no? Or especially things like long-haul trucks, buses, and other heavy industrial vehicles.

It's a sliding scale of returns. The battery packs to to meaningfully propel vehicles of those sizes would be enormous. You are then eating into people/hauling space, adding even more weight to an already heavy vehicle, and adding more cost to already fuzzy math depending on use.

Where it gets interesting with vehicles of those size is when you look at the % gains. If you gain 2MPG in some situations that could be as much as a 20% improvement in fuel economy. If you went from 10MPG to 12MPG due to hybrid tech it doesn't look like much. But if you look at it as a cost of driving 100 miles, it's almost 2x the improvement of going from 30MPG to 40MPG.

 

[desy]

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...ille-supercharger-or-why-i-miss-gas-stations/

No problem Amigo here's one from today talking about charging a Tesla even for you
BTW the cheapest Tesla what 70G? that's not a commuter car which is all they are currently good for, that's a luxury car, period, meaning its nowhere near ready for prime time
What about taxes? Gas tax pays for the roads all these EVs are running on have we figured out how to pay for infrastructure yet? bridges aint cheap

"I am frustrated that Tesla seems so ardently unable to follow through on the basic statements on their website. While their definition of Supercharger is a very fast charger, the pictures they use on the website suggest beautiful, scenic chargers – not a line of weird stalls alongside a strip mall, or awkwardly sandwiched next to the sales office at HQ. In the same way that gas stations function as refueling facilities for both the car and the driver, the Supercharger should be a station not a charger – especially since you’re there for a lot longer than it takes to fill a car’s gas tank.

If the Tesla network is to grow illustriously and truly make a go of being an alternative to gasoline, they have to provide more of a service at a Supercharger. Yes, it’s great that I can get back 50% of my power in 20-30 minutes. However that’s 20-30 minutes I’m sitting around in the car – messing with the screen, twiddling my thumbs – that would be a lot better spent stretching my legs. And no, saying “it’s by a strip mall” is not a sufficient answer.

Considering the amount of care and attention to detail put into the Model S, the Superchargers – at least based on my experiences in Vacaville and Fremont – feel deficient. No doubt they’re expensive to install and maintain, and would be even more so if you added actual services on top of them, but perhaps now is the time for Tesla to make the next step. Sorry, Elon, but I shouldn’t be missing gas stations. And I am.

I realize that sounds immensely bratty – but the basic existence of the gas station is one that is there to partially support the driver. Even if it’s just to have a pee, grab a drink, stretch your legs and then get driving, it’s an experience that is unglamorous but necessary. And until Musk recreates it for the Tesla, it’s something that will effect my willingness to take particularly long drives"

 

[MiataNC]

You bring up a good point about weather. From my reading Tesla has been the only manufacturer to design a EV that handles cold weather well. They do this by applying thermal control to the battery to keep it from getting to cold if left out overnight. A Tesla's range well not drop by nearly 50% in cold weather, drivers in Norway have found about a 10% drop. The key with a Tesla that if you leave the car out over-night you need to be able to plug it in so the car doesn't drain battery power to warm the battery. However the other EV manufacturers seem to ignore any thermal controls on the battery in cold weather. So in cold weather as the battery gets colder the range drops. The engineering is there to mitigate severe range loss in cold weather. It is just that most EV manufacturers don't implement anything to warm the batteries.

The Chevy Volt (Extended Range EV) and Spark (EV) both heat and cool the battery pack to counter extreme hot/cold weather effects on the battery.

 

[1prophet]

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...ille-supercharger-or-why-i-miss-gas-stations/

No problem Amigo here's one from today talking about charging a Tesla even for you
BTW the cheapest Tesla what 70G? that's not a commuter car which is all they are currently good for, that's a luxury car, period, meaning its nowhere near ready for prime time
What about taxes? Gas tax pays for the roads all these EVs are running on have we figured out how to pay for infrastructure yet? bridges aint cheap

"I am frustrated that Tesla seems so ardently unable to follow through on the basic statements on their website. While their definition of Supercharger is a very fast charger, the pictures they use on the website suggest beautiful, scenic chargers – not a line of weird stalls alongside a strip mall, or awkwardly sandwiched next to the sales office at HQ. In the same way that gas stations function as refueling facilities for both the car and the driver, the Supercharger should be a station not a charger – especially since you’re there for a lot longer than it takes to fill a car’s gas tank.

If the Tesla network is to grow illustriously and truly make a go of being an alternative to gasoline, they have to provide more of a service at a Supercharger. Yes, it’s great that I can get back 50% of my power in 20-30 minutes. However that’s 20-30 minutes I’m sitting around in the car – messing with the screen, twiddling my thumbs – that would be a lot better spent stretching my legs. And no, saying “it’s by a strip mall” is not a sufficient answer.

Considering the amount of care and attention to detail put into the Model S, the Superchargers – at least based on my experiences in Vacaville and Fremont – feel deficient. No doubt they’re expensive to install and maintain, and would be even more so if you added actual services on top of them, but perhaps now is the time for Tesla to make the next step. Sorry, Elon, but I shouldn’t be missing gas stations. And I am.

I realize that sounds immensely bratty – but the basic existence of the gas station is one that is there to partially support the driver. Even if it’s just to have a pee, grab a drink, stretch your legs and then get driving, it’s an experience that is unglamorous but necessary. And until Musk recreates it for the Tesla, it’s something that will effect my willingness to take particularly long drives"

If we had let impatient short sighted naysayers such as this lead the way we would still be riding horse and buggies while criticizing Henry Ford.

 

[Kaido]

I realize that sounds immensely bratty – but the basic existence of the gas station is one that is there to partially support the driver. Even if it’s just to have a pee, grab a drink, stretch your legs and then get driving, it’s an experience that is unglamorous but necessary. And until Musk recreates it for the Tesla, it’s something that will effect my willingness to take particularly long drives"

I actually don't think it sounds bratty, and the article has an excellent point. I mean, look at the Matrix movie - the humans were used to power the machines, but even the machines recognized that they had to keep the humans coddled with a nutrient feed & stuff. Kind of a weird example to use to illustrate my point, but hey, this is AT 😉 But anyway, if you're designing a product for humans, you do need to keep humans in mind - you're going to have to use the bathroom, stretch your legs, hopefully not get mugged, etc.

I've been to the Supercharger in CT and they put it in a gas station plaza. Which is good and bad. Good because you can hit up McDonad's, take a bathroom break, etc. Bad because you're stuck there for 30 minutes. And people will definitely be fawning over your car - which is great if you like to show off or are a social person, but if not, good luck with avoiding interaction haha. Also bad because if you spent $70k to $120k on a car, maybe a roadside McDonalds is not your first choice of dining locations for that half hour of charging, you know? I think Tesla has a real opportunity here to do some neat things with it - put it near a nicer restaurant, for example. Or by a Chucky Cheese if you're driving with your family & need to kill 30 minutes. I dunno. I guess free charging doesn't come without its drawbacks!

 

[Kaido]

If we had let impatient short sighted naysayers such as this lead the way we would still be riding horse and buggies while criticizing Henry Ford.

Like I said above, the author of the article does have a point. On the flip side, he's complaining about being bored while getting FREE fuel for his car, so...there's that 😉

 

[Kaido]

The Oatmeal on the Tesla Model S:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s