The official Electric Car discussion thread

[Kaido]

Here is a street-legal electric car that can do a 1.8s 0-60. I am not too worried about EV performance.

http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/whitezombie.php

Also more to my point, that's what I mean - if you can already go 0 to 60 in 4.2 seconds, do you really want to go much faster? 0 to 60 in 1.8 is amazingly awesome, but how much faster do we want to go? 0 to 60 in 0.2 seconds? 4.2 for a production car seems pretty zippy in general, haha.

 

[JCH13]

Also more to my point, that's what I mean - if you can already go 0 to 60 in 4.2 seconds, do you really want to go much faster? 0 to 60 in 1.8 is amazingly awesome, but how much faster do we want to go? 0 to 60 in 0.2 seconds? 4.2 for a production car seems pretty zippy in general, haha.

4.2s 0-60 is awesome. Faster than many cars. 1.8s 0-60 is an average acceleration of 1.5g, which is simply insane.

0-60 in 0.2s is 13.7g, so you'd pass out, even with a G suit. 0.9s is a practical limit based on average humans being able to stay awake (3gs).

:awe:

Seriously though, as a car enthusiast, I am not worried about EV cars not being sporty. They have incredible torque, instant throttle response, and would be easy to shift motors/batteries around to optimize weight distribution during design. They have a lot of things going for them that enthusiasts appreciate and enjoy. We won't have the ability to 'turn the boost up' to get more power, but why not 'turn the voltage up'? We will be able to 'chip' or 'reflash' the ECU to get more performance. Instead of upgraded intake/exhaust systems we'll have big-gauge wiring kits to let the electric motor "breath better." Instead of a turbo upgrade or a forged motor we'll have bigger/better battery packs and more powerful electric motors to drop in. Engine swaps could even be as easy as a couple hours given how simple electric motors are. Suspension and chassis mods will largely be unchanged. It won't be a wasteland for tuners and gear heads, it will just be different.

 

[Excelsior]

4.2s 0-60 is awesome. Faster than many cars. 1.8s 0-60 is an average acceleration of 1.5g, which is simply insane.

0-60 in 0.2s is 13.7g, so you'd pass out, even with a G suit. 0.9s is a practical limit based on average humans being able to stay awake (3gs).

:awe:

Seriously though, as a car enthusiast, I am not worried about EV cars not being sporty. They have incredible torque, instant throttle response, and would be easy to shift motors/batteries around to optimize weight distribution during design. They have a lot of things going for them that enthusiasts appreciate and enjoy. We won't have the ability to 'turn the boost up' to get more power, but why not 'turn the voltage up'? We will be able to 'chip' or 'reflash' the ECU to get more performance. Instead of upgraded intake/exhaust systems we'll have big-gauge wiring kits to let the electric motor "breath better." Instead of a turbo upgrade or a forged motor we'll have bigger/better battery packs and more powerful electric motors to drop in. Engine swaps could even be as easy as a couple hours given how simple electric motors are. Suspension and chassis mods will largely be unchanged. It won't be a wasteland for tuners and gear heads, it will just be different.

I couldn't agree more. It will be different, but fun.

 

[Kaido]

4.2s 0-60 is awesome. Faster than many cars. 1.8s 0-60 is an average acceleration of 1.5g, which is simply insane.

0-60 in 0.2s is 13.7g, so you'd pass out, even with a G suit. 0.9s is a practical limit based on average humans being able to stay awake (3gs).

:awe:

Seriously though, as a car enthusiast, I am not worried about EV cars not being sporty. They have incredible torque, instant throttle response, and would be easy to shift motors/batteries around to optimize weight distribution during design. They have a lot of things going for them that enthusiasts appreciate and enjoy. We won't have the ability to 'turn the boost up' to get more power, but why not 'turn the voltage up'? We will be able to 'chip' or 'reflash' the ECU to get more performance. Instead of upgraded intake/exhaust systems we'll have big-gauge wiring kits to let the electric motor "breath better." Instead of a turbo upgrade or a forged motor we'll have bigger/better battery packs and more powerful electric motors to drop in. Engine swaps could even be as easy as a couple hours given how simple electric motors are. Suspension and chassis mods will largely be unchanged. It won't be a wasteland for tuners and gear heads, it will just be different.

Can't wait to overclock my car! Haha. Seriously though first thought based on 0.9s:

http://rivercitycrossfit.com/wp-con.../05/fast-face-internet-1.jpg&w=596&h=209&zc=1

:biggrin:

 

[Kaido]

Of course, you could always go with an aftermarket range extender, haha:

http://www.dvice.com/2013-7-30/little-trailer-backup-charger-your-electric-vehicle

http://www.evnut.com/rav_longranger.htm

 

[Brovane]

Excellent writeup.

Also, they do develop special kind of 'automotive use' battery along with Panasonic. In a nutshell, this is a cell that can't be used by itself but works perfectly in larger pack that has cell thermal management.

Thank you - Yes Tesla has done a lot in battery development and partnership with Panasonic. However a lot of tech they are keeping very secret for good reason.

 

[Kaido]

Thank you - Yes Tesla has done a lot in battery development and partnership with Panasonic. However a lot of tech they are keeping very secret for good reason.

http://i.imgur.com/ZDTUXIh.gif

 

[Kaido]

2014 Chevy Volt to be priced at $34,995: (before rebates)

http://www.engadget.com/2013/08/06/2014-chevy-volt-price-drop/

They knocked $5,000 off last year's price. If you qualify for the $7,500 Federal tax rebate, that would bring the price down to $27,495 (plus $810 destination fee). The Volt isn't enormously appealing to me for some reason, but it is very practical for my driving needs - my primary commute is about 45 miles a day, so if they had a 50-mile range on the 2014 model (or if I could use 120V at work), I could go all week on electric power and then use the gas as needed on the weekend. Interesting comment on that article:

23 months in my Volt. 19,000 miles, and 53 gallons of gas.

$27k is a very appealing price. I bet you could easily get a zero-down lease for under $300 a month with the new pricing (I've seen them in the past for $0 down, $299/mo). My gas bill is just under $200 a month for my eco-mobile right now, so at $27k buy or lease, that could be a pretty good deal...

 

[desy]

Diesel is typically cheaper than gas here in Sask

Now let's say you want the car with the segment's single highest fuel-economy number, but you don't want a hybrid. That also would be the 2014 Chevrolet Cruze Diesel with its rating of 46 mpg on the highway. And if a hybrid guy wants to bet pink slips based on what you're really getting out of a gallon of fossil fuel, the diesel's likely to come out ahead there, too, unless you're talking strictly stop-and-go city driving, where the Cruze is rated at 27 mpg.

For now, Volkswagen has to be curiously looking over its shoulder at its new competitor, and for good reason. The Cruze has more horsepower (151 hp to 140 hp), more torque (264 to 236) and better highway fuel economy (46 mpg to 42 mpg).

And as a final kicker, the Cruze is less expensive, too. At $25,695, the Cruze Diesel undercuts the automatic-transmission Volkswagen Jetta TDI by about 500 bucks. Not a huge difference, but enough to make it worth giving the Chevy a look if all the rest of its advantages weren't enough to convince you already.

http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/cruze/2014/road-test.html
Good ole ice engines keep getting better 2

 

[_Rick_]

Tesla truck

This is a really good idea. Trucks currently have huge gearboxes, and very torque-oriented engine, to get the weights rolling, while at cruising speed aerodynamic drag can still be reasonably reduced.
Going electric means much smaller drive shaft, "native" electronic n-wheel drive, and many other advantages.

Disadvantages? Cost of the battery. Increased gross weight for a battery that runs all day. A hybrid might actually work better in the end. Pure electric mode in areas that are prone to pollution, and diesel-electric drive for the open road.
Also, the know how for hardening diesel engines against the environment is pretty well understood. Battery packs on the other hand are somewhat sensitive.
I do wonder how much an electric motor could reduce engine size by increasing torque efficiency in a large truck, while reducing gearbox and transmission (driveshaft, differentials..) complexity.

 

[Kaido]

Diesel is typically cheaper than gas here in Sask

Now let's say you want the car with the segment's single highest fuel-economy number, but you don't want a hybrid. That also would be the 2014 Chevrolet Cruze Diesel with its rating of 46 mpg on the highway. And if a hybrid guy wants to bet pink slips based on what you're really getting out of a gallon of fossil fuel, the diesel's likely to come out ahead there, too, unless you're talking strictly stop-and-go city driving, where the Cruze is rated at 27 mpg.

For now, Volkswagen has to be curiously looking over its shoulder at its new competitor, and for good reason. The Cruze has more horsepower (151 hp to 140 hp), more torque (264 to 236) and better highway fuel economy (46 mpg to 42 mpg).

And as a final kicker, the Cruze is less expensive, too. At $25,695, the Cruze Diesel undercuts the automatic-transmission Volkswagen Jetta TDI by about 500 bucks. Not a huge difference, but enough to make it worth giving the Chevy a look if all the rest of its advantages weren't enough to convince you already.

http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/cruze/2014/road-test.html
Good ole ice engines keep getting better 2

Yeah, I was just reading about VW's new EA288. The Passat TDI has been on my short list for awhile; I love the crazy 800+ mile range in the diesel model, and next year's version is supposed to be even better.

What would be amazing would be something like a plug-in TDI with a modern battery. So like 80 miles of range, plus 800-miles on the tank. That'd be a fairly large car based on the size of the batteries, motors, and fuel tank, but boy oh boy would that be an amazing machine to cruise around in!

 

[Kaido]

This is a really good idea. Trucks currently have huge gearboxes, and very torque-oriented engine, to get the weights rolling, while at cruising speed aerodynamic drag can still be reasonably reduced.
Going electric means much smaller drive shaft, "native" electronic n-wheel drive, and many other advantages.

Disadvantages? Cost of the battery. Increased gross weight for a battery that runs all day. A hybrid might actually work better in the end. Pure electric mode in areas that are prone to pollution, and diesel-electric drive for the open road.
Also, the know how for hardening diesel engines against the environment is pretty well understood. Battery packs on the other hand are somewhat sensitive.
I do wonder how much an electric motor could reduce engine size by increasing torque efficiency in a large truck, while reducing gearbox and transmission (driveshaft, differentials..) complexity.

See, that's the perfect case for a hybrid electric/diesel setup. I've been seeing more and more huge trucks with luxury car interiors on the road lately, stuff that costs like $40k+. My buddy just picked up a 4-door Dodge RAM and the interior is crazy nice, full leather, super roomy, just really top-notch. So there's definitely a market for a big truck as kind of a family hauler or SUV replacement; if you could do electric around town (or around the jobsite) and then diesel the rest of the way, that would be amazing!

 

[Kaido]

For now, Volkswagen has to be curiously looking over its shoulder at its new competitor, and for good reason. The Cruze has more horsepower (151 hp to 140 hp), more torque (264 to 236) and better highway fuel economy (46 mpg to 42 mpg).

I think that would be my dream garage - a 265-mile Tesla S for me, a Tesla X "minivan" for my wife, and a VW Passat 800+ mile TDI for long trips :biggrin:

 

[Kaido]

Tesla Is Set To Take On Snow With An All-Wheel Drive Model S:

http://jalopnik.com/tesla-is-set-to-take-on-snow-with-an-all-wheel-drive-mo-1042098466

By all accounts, the Tesla Model S is a fantastic engineering accomplishment and also great to drive. And now Tesla is looking to expand to cooler, snowier climates with the addition of a Model S with all-wheel drive. Watch out, basically everybody.

According to The Verge, the all-wheel drive Model S is rumored to start production with an ultra-premium high performance model in 2014.

An AWD Model S makes sense since Tesla is getting ready to introduce the Model X crossover, so much of the same tech could appear across both cars. It's not clear if the chassis is the same as the Model X, but Musk has mentioned it separately. That leads me to think that it is a different car.

All-wheel drive is basically required for everyone on Tesla's class these days. Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, and basically everyone has all-wheel drive available across their lineups. It's another necessary step for Tesla to continue to become the mainstream manufacturer that they want to be.

😱 😱 😱

 

[Kaido]

Pirelli creates run-silent tires for high-end Audis:

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2013/07/24/pirelli-creates-run-silent-tires-for-high-end-audis/

Could be good & bad for EV's. Bad for pedestrian awareness, but good to help eliminate the road noises you wouldn't normally hear on an ICE vehicle. Wonder if these will be available aftermarket anytime soon...

 

[desy]

I don't know why we don't have a diesel hybrid not like its unpossible
http://www.supercars.net/cars/1802.html

Note the date, 2001

 

[tweakmonkey]

The Lemans winners are all diesel hybrids now I believe.

Shame that Telsa is making some big silly crossover and not a sensible small car. But I guess that's what Americans want 🙁

 

[Kaido]

The Lemans winners are all diesel hybrids now I believe.

Shame that Telsa is making some big silly crossover and not a sensible small car. But I guess that's what Americans want 🙁

Well, it makes sense economically for them as a business - sell an even more expensive electric car to generate funds to do R&D and manufacturer cheaper electric cars down the road. Even the big guys like Chevy & BMW only get about 80 miles out of their EV offerings, so Tesla's 265-mile range is pretty phenomenal compared to them. I think Musk said their third car would be a sub $35k or $30k car that gets a 200-mile range, which would be pretty awesome. I would definitely get in line for that :thumbsup:

 

[sm625]

But how long will it take you to recoup the $15k premium over the ICE Soul?
And do you live where it snows? I'd love an EV but I want 120-mile at zero degrees guarantee before I buy.

lol with the heater running and the blower motor, windshield wipers, headlights, haha you'd be lucky to get 40 miles out of the thing after one winter, and probably 20 miles of range after 5 winters. Gas would ahve to go to $11 a gallon for that investment to work.

 

[desura]

re: diesel. Isn't the Atkinson cycle gas engine similar enough to diesel? Hybrids use atkinson, which basically allows a higher compression, like Diesel, to be achieved.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

Damn I knew I should of bought Tesla stocks when I saw them at $50. They're at $145 now 🙁

 

[Kaido]

Gizmodo: "These Incredible New Buses Are Charged Wirelessly by the Road Itself"

http://gizmodo.com/these-incredible-new-buses-are-charged-wirelessly-by-th-1043337254

For some reason this reminds me of the Ford Explorer transit system in Jurassic Park :biggrin:

 

[Kaido]

Smartcar EV lease for $139: ($1999 down)

http://www.mnn.com/green-tech/trans...w-deal-in-battery-car-leasing-139-a-month-for

Initially sounded like a great deal, but $2000 / 36 months = $55.55/mo if you broke it out across the 3-year lease, so $139 + $55.55 = ~$195 a month. So really, it's the same $199/mo lease deal as the Leaf, Spark, and 500e, but instead of $0 down you put $2000 down. Ah well.

 

[Kaido]

Smartcar EV lease for $139: ($1999 down)

http://www.mnn.com/green-tech/trans...w-deal-in-battery-car-leasing-139-a-month-for

Initially sounded like a great deal, but $2000 / 36 months = $55.55/mo if you broke it out across the 3-year lease, so $139 + $55.55 = ~$195 a month. So really, it's the same $199/mo lease deal as the Leaf, Spark, and 500e, but instead of $0 down you put $2000 down. Ah well.

There's also the scary safety aspect of the Smartcars:

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreen...ycle-driver-survives-smart-car-driver-doesnt/

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2012/12/color-me-surprised-another-fatal-smart.html

http://www.smartcarwreck.com/

 

[_Rick_]

LOL, the good old scaremongering.
Especially love that site decrying bulk as being a safety feature, when it's the opposite.
A heavy car is an unwieldy weapon, designed to main and kill the passengers of lesser vehicles. Saying bulk is safe, means that you call out for everyone to continually increase the weight of their car, because it's only safe, if the other car is lighter.

In fact, two lighter cars will be able to come to a stop before a crash, where heavy cars will crash. Are more maneuverable and able to avoid many obstacles a heavy car will not avoid. And if everyone refuses to buy heavy cars, they're just as safe as any heavy car. It's the heavy cars that are dangerous - the light cars are just the victims.

But of course, in America, victims had it coming for them anyway 😀

An actual protip: If you want to increase safety in a car, install six-point-harnesses and wear a HANS-device and helmet. By making sure your body is properly strapped into your seat, you can reduce the risk for injury massively. With a helmet, head injuries will similarly be reduce. And the HANS device ends forward whiplash. Cabins are being build exceedingly rigid, and are consistently increasing in strength. Even the smart car has a very strong passenger cell. While eventually if will fail, in most city-crashes, where a Smart will spend most of its miles, the speeds involved should usually not let it come to this point. With proper in-cabin security, you're perfectly safe in any modern car.