The Obamazone

[chucky2]

TLDR:

Poor people should be in ghettos where they belong?

TLDR: Don't import cancer...

 

[werepossum]

Just an FYI, as a broad rule suburban housing is consiterably cheaper than city housing for equivalent places.

That's true, but there are many, many places in Chattanooga where I could get equivalent square footage for a third of what I paid. Many of those homes are Section 8 rentals, because no one wants to pay a lot of money for houses next to or near projects or other Section 8 houses.

TLDR:

Poor people should be in ghettos where they belong?

Or earn their way out, yes. What's the point of working one's ass off to buy a nice house if government is simply going to use your tax dollars to put someone on welfare in the house next door?

There is zero chance this will ever affect rich progressives in their gated communities and secure condo buildings. They can shit on the middle class in total security.

 

[Jhhnn]

TLDR: Don't import cancer...

Maybe that cancer is systemic, a function of the concentration of wealth & income provided by trickle down economics.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/19/us/census-measures-those-not-quite-in-poverty-but-struggling.html

Get used to it. Reagan's shining city on a hill is surrounded by slums as far as the eye can see.

 

[Jhhnn]

That's true, but there are many, many places in Chattanooga where I could get equivalent square footage for a third of what I paid. Many of those homes are Section 8 rentals, because no one wants to pay a lot of money for houses next to or near projects or other Section 8 houses.


Or earn their way out, yes. What's the point of working one's ass off to buy a nice house if government is simply going to use your tax dollars to put someone on welfare in the house next door?

There is zero chance this will ever affect rich progressives in their gated communities and secure condo buildings. They can shit on the middle class in total security.

Voting demographics really don't support your usual smear tactics about progressives.

Oh, and Bootstraps, of course.

 

[werepossum]

Voting demographics really don't support your usual smear tactics about progressives.

Oh, and Bootstraps, of course.

You're being even less coherent than usual today. There's a bet that would have cost me money.

What do voting demographics and Bootstraps have to do with this?

 

[fskimospy]

Or earn their way out, yes. What's the point of working one's ass off to buy a nice house if government is simply going to use your tax dollars to put someone on welfare in the house next door?

There is zero chance this will ever affect rich progressives in their gated communities and secure condo buildings. They can shit on the middle class in total security.

I can never get it straight whether you guys think liberals and Democrats are mooches off of society or tyrannical plutocrats picking on the middle class.

Seems like it cuts right through the middle class to me. A person at exactly the median income in the US is less likely than average to identify as a conservative.

 

[Jhhnn]

You're being even less coherent than usual today. There's a bet that would have cost me money.

What do voting demographics and Bootstraps have to do with this?

And now, the coyness of being deliberately obtuse. Entirely predictable.

 

[chucky2]

Maybe that cancer is systemic, a function of the concentration of wealth & income provided by trickle down economics.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/19/us/census-measures-those-not-quite-in-poverty-but-struggling.html

Get used to it. Reagan's shining city on a hill is surrounded by slums as far as the eye can see.

From a keep non-same values people out perspective, don't care, that's not a town/county problem (well, until undesirable people are trying to move in), that's a Fed problem. Probably would have been a good idea to not import 10s of Millions of low skilled labor to compete with US Citizens who already needed all the help they could get. Maybe the entity that is Politician should have thought about that before allowing it to continue for decades...

 

[werepossum]

I can never get it straight whether you guys think liberals and Democrats are mooches off of society or tyrannical plutocrats picking on the middle class.

Seems like it cuts right through the middle class to me. A person at exactly the median income in the US is less likely than average to identify as a conservative.

Sheesh. Now I have to wonder whether you really are this stupid. Just in case you honestly are this stupid, I will rephrase:
There is zero chance this will ever affect the rich progressives who institute these rules in their gated communities and secure condo buildings. They (the rich progressives who institute these rules) can shit on the middle class in total security.

See, I even put the new text in italics since I know you can only look at one thing at a time. I'll even explain it: There is zero chance that any of these new Section 8 homes will be in the gated communities of the wealthy elite. There is zero chance that any of these new Section 8 homes will be condos in the access-controlled, uniformed security, concierge-sporting apartment buildings of the wealthy elite.

If this is still too obtuse, please take it up with your therapist. Um, one of your therapists; don't bother them all.

 

[brycejones]

TLDR: Don't import cancer...

At least own it enough to be honest about it. Poor people are cancer now?

 

[chucky2]

At least own it enough to be honest about it. Poor people are cancer now?

Own what enough to be honest about what? Go take a tour of the southern suburbs in Chicago, the ones that are shitholes. Guess what? Most of all of them used to be nice. What happened? How much does it cost to not throw trash on the ground? Zero. How much does it cost to cut your lawn for the house you were able to buy? Practically Zero (especially when you're about to afford walking around in new different clothes, have a vehicle with a non-stock loud sound system, $2000 worth of wheels/tires, etc). How much does it cost to clean out your gutters so there aren't trees growing out of them? Zero. And on and on.

This isn't necessarily a poor person problem - I've literally seen a guy by my buds house buy his house, and be outside in his front lawn when he first bought it on his hands and knees cutting his grass with scissors. Another neighbor went over and asked if he needed help (aka do you want to borrow my mower) and the guy was like yeah, that'd be great, I just don't want my place to look like shit. Dude is obviously not even middle class, but he had the pride his place wasn't going to look like a shithole. I've seen dudes mow their lawns with string trimmers because that's all they had at that point in time. The point here is: They moved some place better, and, rather than make it a shithole, they did/are doing their part to keep it nice.

Those are the people you want, the problem is, there is a.) zero way to know who you're going to get from these shitholes and b.) a fairly low chance they're going to be like the guys I just referenced. What you'll get is people who are fine cutting their grass every 3 weeks, 5 weeks, whatever. Will litter/don't care about the little in their yard and so just leave it. Have bad attitudes/manners. Have kids who are disasters. Etc.

There is a reason why all these towns go from being nice to being shitholes, I'm sorry if that's an inconvenient truth, but it is the truth.

 

[werepossum]

Own what enough to be honest about what? Go take a tour of the southern suburbs in Chicago, the ones that are shitholes. Guess what? Most of all of them used to be nice. What happened? How much does it cost to not throw trash on the ground? Zero. How much does it cost to cut your lawn for the house you were able to buy? Practically Zero (especially when you're about to afford walking around in new different clothes, have a vehicle with a non-stock loud sound system, $2000 worth of wheels/tires, etc). How much does it cost to clean out your gutters so there aren't trees growing out of them? Zero. And on and on.

This isn't necessarily a poor person problem - I've literally seen a guy by my buds house buy his house, and be outside in his front lawn when he first bought it on his hands and knees cutting his grass with scissors. Another neighbor went over and asked if he needed help (aka do you want to borrow my mower) and the guy was like yeah, that'd be great, I just don't want my place to look like shit. Dude is obviously not even middle class, but he had the pride his place wasn't going to look like a shithole. I've seen dudes mow their lawns with string trimmers because that's all they had at that point in time. The point here is: They moved some place better, and, rather than make it a shithole, they did/are doing their part to keep it nice.

Those are the people you want, the problem is, there is a.) zero way to know who you're going to get from these shitholes and b.) a fairly low chance they're going to be like the guys I just referenced. What you'll get is people who are fine cutting their grass every 3 weeks, 5 weeks, whatever. Will litter/don't care about the little in their yard and so just leave it. Have bad attitudes/manners. Have kids who are disasters. Etc.

There is a reason why all these towns go from being nice to being shitholes, I'm sorry if that's an inconvenient truth, but it is the truth.

Damned well said, sir. I've seen very nice little Section 8 houses absolutely trashed, so that within a year I would literally not allow my dog to live in it. The homeowner gets kicked out of the Section 8 program until he brings his house up to a livable standard. The person who trashes it gets a moving allowance so she doesn't have to live in her own filth. This is why the Section 8 program nearly died until they revised it to allow homeowners to select their tenants rather than being forced to accept whomever the computer kicked out.

 

[Jhhnn]

Damned well said, sir. I've seen very nice little Section 8 houses absolutely trashed, so that within a year I would literally not allow my dog to live in it. The homeowner gets kicked out of the Section 8 program until he brings his house up to a livable standard. The person who trashes it gets a moving allowance so she doesn't have to live in her own filth. This is why the Section 8 program nearly died until they revised it to allow homeowners to select their tenants rather than being forced to accept whomever the computer kicked out.

Slime cannon anecdote with unsubstantiated assertion of fact as a kicker.

Basic FUD for the rubes.

 

[chucky2]

Haha one of the bots denies all of the change of Chicago's southern suburbs...it must be very hard for such a bot to accept how its ideology is so so wrong...

 

[chucky2]

Damned well said, sir. I've seen very nice little Section 8 houses absolutely trashed, so that within a year I would literally not allow my dog to live in it. The homeowner gets kicked out of the Section 8 program until he brings his house up to a livable standard. The person who trashes it gets a moving allowance so she doesn't have to live in her own filth. This is why the Section 8 program nearly died until they revised it to allow homeowners to select their tenants rather than being forced to accept whomever the computer kicked out.

We've got at least three on our street that I know of. First one the woman and her business partner redid. She kept trying to rent it but every person applying kept trying to con her on financing and/or background. I guess they thought the young white girl would buy the BS, unfortunately for them, young white girl has a friend at a bank for credit checks and a friend at FBI for background checks. Oops.

Next house was bought outright by at least one of the kids father who picks up and drops off on the weekend. The mom/aunt/whoever she is lives there with three kids. My favorite with them so far was chasing a squirrel on the roof with a rake and hoe...the sound the hoe made slamming into the asphalt shingles was priceless.

The third was completely redone by Mexicans (exterior and interior home remodel is 'jobs Americans won't do' apparently), and sat for a bit. First tenent finally left a couple of weeks ago, must have trashed the place as there's a dumpster out there and a contractors truck for past few days.

But, it's all FUD of course...hahahahaha....

 

[nickqt]

Haha one of the bots denies all of the change of Chicago's southern suburbs...it must be very hard for such a bot to accept how its ideology is so so wrong...

Which "bot" is doing all of the denying, delusional conservative?

 

[halik]

The real issue is that HUD just doesn't understand economics - Section 8 housing and vouchers come with negative externalities for both neighbors and landlord.

If someone puts up a section 8 building, house prices around it go down and current owners are not compensated. *1

Landlords can only charge market rate for vouchers, yet predominantly low-income people have no assets to go after in case of damage. Also anecdotally, section 8 tenants have higher rates of damage and clean and there is more paperwork and red tape when it comes to the condition of the rental unit. Again, the landlord isn't compensated for this as they can only charge market rate.

1* http://www.nhc.org/insights.html

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Highway to the Obamazone!!

 

[werepossum]

We've got at least three on our street that I know of. First one the woman and her business partner redid. She kept trying to rent it but every person applying kept trying to con her on financing and/or background. I guess they thought the young white girl would buy the BS, unfortunately for them, young white girl has a friend at a bank for credit checks and a friend at FBI for background checks. Oops.

Next house was bought outright by at least one of the kids father who picks up and drops off on the weekend. The mom/aunt/whoever she is lives there with three kids. My favorite with them so far was chasing a squirrel on the roof with a rake and hoe...the sound the hoe made slamming into the asphalt shingles was priceless.

The third was completely redone by Mexicans (exterior and interior home remodel is 'jobs Americans won't do' apparently), and sat for a bit. First tenent finally left a couple of weeks ago, must have trashed the place as there's a dumpster out there and a contractors truck for past few days.

But, it's all FUD of course...hahahahaha....

Exactly. This is common knowledge among anyone who has dealt with Section 8 housing over any length of time. This is also why smart landlords get extremely attached to good tenants. A friend of mine carried one guy for over a year without receiving any rent (guy was a truck driver who lost a leg in a motorcycle accident) just to avoid going back into the Section 8 program for that particular house. He eventually got all his money when the guy's disability was approved and he got his back payments; good people will pay their obligations if and when they are able. My friend also had tenants who seldom if ever paid their portion of the rent (typically only $50 to $75 per month) but who he allowed to slide because they kept the house clean and in good shape. Losing $600 a year on a good multiyear tenant is peanuts compared to $10k in repairs after one year of a bad tenant.

Which "bot" is doing all of the denying, delusional conservative?

Jhhnn - but don't worry, you also qualify.

The real issue is that HUD just doesn't understand economics - Section 8 housing and vouchers come with negative externalities for both neighbors and landlord.

If someone puts up a section 8 building, house prices around it go down and current owners are not compensated. *1

Landlords can only charge market rate for vouchers, yet predominantly low-income people have no assets to go after in case of damage. Also anecdotally, section 8 tenants have higher rates of damage and clean and there is more paperwork and red tape when it comes to the condition of the rental unit. Again, the landlord isn't compensated for this as they can only charge market rate.

1* http://www.nhc.org/insights.html

I don't know if it's that they don't understand economics or that they just don't care. Either it's just a job and whomever gets hurt is immaterial to their own well-being, or they are actual social justice warriors and anyone who actually buys a house deserves to take one for the team as the price for having "won life's lottery".

Thanks for the links.

 

[theeedude]

It's someone's property, they can rent it as section 8 housing if they want to. If it brings down your house price, too bad. As long as it's legal, you aren't entitled to be compensated for that. Just like you aren't entitled to be compensated if your neighbor has a rusty old truck in the driveway making the neighborhood look bad.

 

[Jhhnn]

We've got at least three on our street that I know of. First one the woman and her business partner redid. She kept trying to rent it but every person applying kept trying to con her on financing and/or background. I guess they thought the young white girl would buy the BS, unfortunately for them, young white girl has a friend at a bank for credit checks and a friend at FBI for background checks. Oops.

Next house was bought outright by at least one of the kids father who picks up and drops off on the weekend. The mom/aunt/whoever she is lives there with three kids. My favorite with them so far was chasing a squirrel on the roof with a rake and hoe...the sound the hoe made slamming into the asphalt shingles was priceless.

The third was completely redone by Mexicans (exterior and interior home remodel is 'jobs Americans won't do' apparently), and sat for a bit. First tenent finally left a couple of weeks ago, must have trashed the place as there's a dumpster out there and a contractors truck for past few days.

But, it's all FUD of course...hahahahaha....

So, uhh, why do landlords rent thru sec 8 anyway? Are they compelled to do so by govt or by our spiffy Job Creator/ Ownership Society shaped economy?

Maybe this 35 year running upgrade for the financial elite means a downgrade for many of the rest of us, huh?

Couldn't be!

Oh, and your sheets are kinda showing a little bit. Might want to tuck 'em in just to give a good impression.

 

[chucky2]

Which "bot" is doing all of the denying, delusional conservative?

Other thread of same bot to the rescue! :thumbsup:

 

[chucky2]

Exactly. This is common knowledge among anyone who has dealt with Section 8 housing over any length of time. This is also why smart landlords get extremely attached to good tenants. A friend of mine carried one guy for over a year without receiving any rent (guy was a truck driver who lost a leg in a motorcycle accident) just to avoid going back into the Section 8 program for that particular house. He eventually got all his money when the guy's disability was approved and he got his back payments; good people will pay their obligations if and when they are able. My friend also had tenants who seldom if ever paid their portion of the rent (typically only $50 to $75 per month) but who he allowed to slide because they kept the house clean and in good shape. Losing $600 a year on a good multiyear tenant is peanuts compared to $10k in repairs after one year of a bad tenant.

Absolutely. Good renters are great because you can keep that guaranteed Gov income coming in with low risk of issues (read: low risk of expenditures), the problem is, once they're in they're in and hard/harder to get rid of (especially if they have kids), and, good renters have family, which means, you rent to grandma, and she's a good renter, but then her granddaughter comes to live with her, along with the granddaughters 2 kids from two different daddy's. Low income renting is a gamble.

Jhhnn - but don't worry, you also qualify.

It is amazing how they appear in the same threads and have the same "logic" isn't it? :biggrin:

 

[chucky2]

So, uhh, why do landlords rent thru sec 8 anyway? Are they compelled to do so by govt or by our spiffy Job Creator/ Ownership Society shaped economy?

Uh, to make money? WTF do landlords have to do with people actually living in those communities where an owner decides a domicile they own in that community is going to be a low income rental? Nothing. Because that owner doesn't have to live in that community, and thus, doesn't have to give a shit what affect those people moving in (who may be renters, or who may be buyers) have on that community.

Maybe this 35 year running upgrade for the financial elite means a downgrade for many of the rest of us, huh?

Couldn't be!

Ruh ro, here comes the Jhnnn schtick whine!

Oh, and your sheets are kinda showing a little bit. Might want to tuck 'em in just to give a good impression.

Ahh the race card. The problem is there bot, one that has been around when these communities were nice, and how they are now, can simply drive through and experience the change in Realities and see who has a clue what they're talking about and who thinks someone is just being a big meanie racist. Poor White Guilter/Bleeding Heart, so much internal confusion...

 

[Jhhnn]

Uh, to make money? WTF do landlords have to do with people actually living in those communities where an owner decides a domicile they own in that community is going to be a low income rental? Nothing. Because that owner doesn't have to live in that community, and thus, doesn't have to give a shit what affect those people moving in (who may be renters, or who may be buyers) have on that community.

Deliberately obtuse, huh? Why did that "young white girl" resort to sec 8?

Ruh ro, here comes the Jhnnn schtick whine!

Straight for denial & defense of the blessed Job Creators, as always. It's not just your neighborhood in decay, but many all across America. It's not just that rich people are richer, but that working people are actually a lot poorer in relative terms-

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph

Ahh the race card. The problem is there bot, one that has been around when these communities were nice, and how they are now, can simply drive through and experience the change in Realities and see who has a clue what they're talking about and who thinks someone is just being a big meanie racist. Poor White Guilter/Bleeding Heart, so much internal confusion...

So the neighborhood was nicer when it was whiter rather than richer?