The Obama you don't know

[Dulanic]

I note that as this thread builds and builds that few have actually read the articles referenced in the OP and are instead content to attack the messenger.

😎

We learned from the best 🙂

 

[bfdd]

Didn't read a whole lot of spin, mostly clearing up of his past. Decent read, would recommend it.

 

[Moonbeam]

If you would do so you might find enlightenment.

You are obviously not a sadhu.

😎

The three traditional ways to enlightenment are mortification of the flesh, the way of the fakir, the opening of real love via the adoration of Deity, the way of the monk or bhakti yoga, and the direct intellectual apprehension of reality via intellect, the way of the Jnana yoga. There is a fourth way but , well, we can't talk about that. The purpose of all these techniques is to provide the energy required to collapse duality. It is the energy that matters, not the technique. The best technique for any one person is probably best left to those who know how to assess such things.

 

[bfdd]

The three traditional ways to enlightenment are mortification of the flesh, the way of the fakir, the opening of real love via the adoration of Deity, the way of the monk or bhakti yoga, and the direct intellectual apprehension of reality via intellect, the way of the Jnana yoga. There is a fourth way but , well, we can't talk about that. The purpose of all these techniques is to provide the energy required to collapse duality. It is the energy that matters, not the technique. The best technique for any one person is probably best left to those who know how to assess such things.

there is no "true" way to enlightenment, pfft. liar

 

[werepossum]

Too long to read now, but I skimmed it while I was eating. Not much in it I didn't already know. However, what's really the point? I appreciate the OP's link and I'll doubtless read it all at some point for background, but an incumbent should be judged primarily on his performance. It's interesting to get some insight into his character for a clue about what he might do without the need for re-election, but that's speculative, both because the Presidency tends to grow a man and because the other Democrats he'll need to implement a radical agenda still want to be re-elected.

I continue to be amazed that this man was elected as he had very little to recommend him other than a largely press-manufactured illustrious background, but that's done. The question now is whether he's the best choice for the next four years rather than the preceding, admittedly lackluster decades.

 

[PJABBER]

The three traditional ways to enlightenment are mortification of the flesh, the way of the fakir, the opening of real love via the adoration of Deity, the way of the monk or bhakti yoga, and the direct intellectual apprehension of reality via intellect, the way of the Jnana yoga. There is a fourth way but , well, we can't talk about that. The purpose of all these techniques is to provide the energy required to collapse duality. It is the energy that matters, not the technique. The best technique for any one person is probably best left to those who know how to assess such things.

Very true. Each of the paths you state are based in traditions, the fakir (Sufi,) the monk (Buddhist and Christian,) the yogi (Hindu and Sikh.) And each requires much from those who travel those ways.

The fourth way, that you fail to mention, is the way of the warrior. The sly man who travels this difficult path may come to enlightenment much more quickly, often in the youth that one joins that road. The constancy of death and impermanence, the discipline of physical training, the requirement for courage, determination, willpower, spirit and compassion coupled with the requirement to engage with the realities of the world makes for a most interesting journey indeed.

Sometimes we can pick the road we travel, other times the road picks us.

 

[Moonbeam]

Very true. Each of the paths you state are based in traditions, the fakir (Sufi,) the monk (Buddhist and Christian,) the yogi (Hindu and Sikh.) And each requires much from those who travel those ways.

The fourth way, that you fail to mention, is the way of the warrior. The sly man who travels this difficult path may come to enlightenment much more quickly, often in the youth that one joins that road. The constancy of death and impermanence, the discipline of physical training, the requirement for courage, determination, willpower, spirit and compassion coupled with the requirement to engage with the realities of the world makes for a most interesting journey indeed.

Sometimes we can pick the road we travel, other times the road picks us.

I can't speak to anything about a fourth way other than by assumption. I know nothing. But I see that the ego will not die of its own volition. How to get around that is a problem that seems to require grace for a dummy like me. What do you think of the paradox of will power and and the abnegation of will via surrender?

 

[Moonbeam]

there is no "true" way to enlightenment, pfft. liar

What are you talking about? Did I say there was a true way to enlightenment? I expressed some opinions. That does not seem to me to be one of them.

 

[PJABBER]

I can't speak to anything about a fourth way other than by assumption. I know nothing. But I see that the ego will not die of its own volition. How to get around that is a problem that seems to require grace for a dummy like me. What do you think of the paradox of will power and and the abnegation of will via surrender?

Ego death is not required for the fourth way. There is no single "I" but a wide number of co-existing that are brought to consciousness by the change of external circumstances.

What most people suffer from is themselves, including the illusion that there is a paradox when both conditions may be equally true and real.

In your own case, you might observe that you write different kinds of posts depending on the external stimuli that you become aware of, and not just the posts you reply to. You are buffeted by a constant internal chattering, just like we all are. Only by become highly observant and self-aware can you reach an understanding that overcomes such distraction.

To many that have considered the choice of paths, the fourth way seems the most accessible but it is as difficult and as easy as any of the other paths, depending on how one accepts what is required.

The three traditional paths are well recognized, the fourth is elusive. Many do not accept it exists.

The fourth way does offer a welcome simplicity to understanding.

It posits conscious labor and intentional suffering as essential to evolution. It does not require a separate existence, like in a monastery, it comes from living in the usual conditions of life. Faith is not required, in fact it antithetical to this way. The principal demand is for understanding.

Morihei Ueshiba is a great source of inspiration in getting through the paradoxes that the warrior path poses. He calls it the Art of Peace.

There are others that can provide some guidance, of course. All speak to the natural contradictions and opposing or complementary aspects of being.

Essentially the fourth way is not the living of someone else's life but your own, so you ultimately need to find your own path.

The picture of myself
Had always been
In front of my vision
Everything I thought I was
Had nothing to do with me
I see now
That I am in everything
And everything is in me

 

[Smoblikat]

Yup.. because everyone highlights the stuff they agree with and ignores the stuff they don't.

Then whats the point of talking? If everyone will think they are right no matter what then why even have a forum?

 

[Moonbeam]

P: Ego death is not required for the fourth way. There is no single "I" but a wide number of co-existing that are brought to consciousness by the change of external circumstances.

M: I don't know. I know people speak of themselves as if they were real and one person.

P: What most people suffer from is themselves, including the illusion that there is a paradox when both conditions may be equally true and real.

M: So how do you personally see equality of truth in the notion of living by will power and say he who dies in my name shall have life eternal especially if we have numerous egos and presumably numerous wills.

P: In your own case, you might observe that you write different kinds of posts depending on the external stimuli that you become aware of, and not just the posts you reply to.


M: I don't know what this means.

P: You are buffeted by a constant internal chattering, just like we all are. Only by become highly observant and self-aware can you reach an understanding that overcomes such distraction.

M: I'm back to my will power issue here. It seems to me that it would be my ego that would want to overcome distraction, and become the distraction itself. I would be in a state of conflict between chattering and wishing I didn't. I can't win that, seems to me.

P: To many that have considered the choice of paths, the fourth way seems the most accessible but it is as difficult and as easy as any of the other paths, depending on how one accepts what is required.

The three traditional paths are well recognized, the fourth is elusive. Many do not accept it exists.

The fourth way does offer a welcome simplicity to understanding.

It posits conscious labor and intentional suffering as essential to evolution. It does not require a separate existence, like in a monastery, it comes from living in the usual conditions of life. Faith is not required, in fact it antithetical to this way. The principal demand is for understanding.

Morihei Ueshiba is a great source of inspiration in getting through the paradoxes that the warrior path poses. He calls it the Art of Peace.

There are others that can provide some guidance, of course. All speak to the natural contradictions and opposing or complementary aspects of being.

M: This is over my head. I am not good at thinking things like this.

P: Essentially the fourth way is not the living of someone else's life but your own, so you ultimately need to find your own path.

I looked at the Ueshiba guy and he seems terrific, but I am not Japanese and don't know anybody like him. I don't think, no matter how advanced he may be or have been, that it would be a path for me. It also seems to me like a fakir's path, enlightenment through the physical body, entering the present by being physically here.

 

[zsdersw]

Then whats the point of talking? If everyone will think they are right no matter what then why even have a forum?

I know. *shrug*

 

[squirrel dog]

read it whimps.