The NV20 ABSOLUTELY must SUCK....

[RoboTECH]

Ben, you know darn well I'm talking about under glide when I'm referring to framerates and UT.

NO ONE with a voodoo card plays in D3d, so any D3d benches on a 5500 you see are plain bunk. For reference, @ 1024, I get almost 90 fps using Reverend's Thunder benchmark under glide.

I will assume you're just screwing with me with your UT comments, because they obviously aren't relevant.

As far as the TC thing, again I ask you, how does 3dfx or ATi patch the game with their TC, since they seem to have figured out a way to avoid the problems? They haven't had any problems. I wouldn't be quite so quick to put a GeForce in the same category as an S3 card. Pretty nasty bedfellow, yes?

Also, which "game" patch are you talking about, as I've seen some pretty negative reviews for one game patch (it almost fixes the sky, but does nothing to the lighting and opaque textures)

As far as disabling TC on the 5500, you are correct, the framerates drop through the roof. Of course, you don't need to disable TC on the 5500 when playing Q3. It's not a problem like it is on the GeForces.

 

[BenSkywalker]

"As far as the TC thing, again I ask you, how does 3dfx or ATi patch the game with their TC, since they seem to have figured out a way to avoid the problems?"

ATi broke a feature to deal with it, 3dfx doesn't support the feature(thye interpert and alter the commands).

No problems? Missing textures for UT on the Radeon and no TC support for the V5, I would certainly say that they have more then their fair share of problems.

"For reference, @ 1024, I get almost 90 fps using Reverend's Thunder benchmark under glide."

In 16bit color. No way in he!! I would pay $300 for a vid card and run 16bit.

"Also, which "game" patch are you talking about, as I've seen some pretty negative reviews for one game patch (it almost fixes the sky, but does nothing to the lighting and opaque textures)"

Which review? The only way to get around the lighting is to break full S3TC support as of now, that is a remaining flaw(and there are people working on that right now). What review was it that had problems with opaque textures? The sky issue was because it was opaque(well, one of the layers was, that was what caused the problem), and that has been fixed.

"I wouldn't be quite so quick to put a GeForce in the same category as an S3 card. Pretty nasty bedfellow, yes?"

Considering they invented the standard, I would say that they aren't that bad at it. nVidia is compared to SGI for OpenGL support. When you are compared to the creator of a standard in support, I would say that is a good thing.

Other companies may decide to break things to look good for PR's sake, but nVidia is clearly after the broader interests of its users. To use a line I hear a lot "not everyone plays Quake3 all the time".

"As far as disabling TC on the 5500, you are correct, the framerates drop through the roof. Of course, you don't need to disable TC on the 5500 when playing Q3. It's not a problem like it is on the GeForces."

I'm not having any problems. Working perfectly fine here. Sure, if I ran in r_lightmap 1 mode it would be a big concern for me, but I don't know anyone who does.

 

[Ahriman6]

Ben:



<< Other companies may decide to break things to look good for PR's sake, but nVidia is clearly after the broader interests of its users. >>



I would love to hear the reasoning behind this statement. It just strikes me as so indicative of your obvious Nvidia bias. And considering which site you write for and who runs that site, I'm not really surprised.

 

[BenSkywalker]

&quot;I would love to hear the reasoning behind this statement. It just strikes me as so indicative of your obvious Nvidia bias. And considering which site you write for and who runs that site, I'm not really surprised.&quot;

Let me assure you, you are taking this waaayyyyyy too seriously

Robo and I could have a conversation about what we had for lunch and we would end up arguing about video cards, it is what we do.

Look at the first post in this thread, he was itching for another argument(and I never hesitate to jump in myself). Take nothing here seriously, if you frequent this board often enough you will know that we are mainly arguing for the sake of arguing, and we both happen to be very interested in video boards.

Also, if you care, search through my posts here and find when the last time I reccomended a nVidia board to someone was. I have been &quot;pimping&quot; the Radeon for quite some time to almost everyone, I've even reccomended a V5 5500 since the last time I suggested a GF2(a sim enthusiast).

I don't understand your comments about &quot;wumpus&quot;, and certainly don't see how they relate to either me or the site. He owns a nVidia board, so does Anand, Tom, Sharky, Kristoff, Kyle and Rev for that matter.

 

[RoboTECH]

Ben:



<< &quot;ATi broke a feature to deal with it, &quot; >>

interesting that they &quot;broke&quot; the feature, yet it works better &quot;broken&quot; than fixed.

Hmmm....I wish my computer would &quot;break&quot; like that.

<< &quot;3dfx doesn't support the feature(thye <sic> interpert <sic> and alter the commands).&quot; >>

indeed, shame nvidia couldn't get off their asses to do as such.

<< &quot;no TC support for the V5&quot; >>

actually, 3dfx has a far superior form of TC. They just haven't had the benefit of litigation to get S3TC for free like nvidia did.

<< &quot;For reference, @ 1024, I get almost 90 fps using Reverend's Thunder benchmark under glide.&quot;In 16bit color. No way in he!! I would pay $300 for a vid card and run 16bit. >>

it's a 16-bit game, Ben.

<< &quot;Other companies may decide to break things to look good for PR's sake, but nVidia is clearly after the broader interests of its users.&quot; >>

<robo giggles himself silly>

<< Sure, if I ran in r_lightmap 1 mode it would be a big concern for me, but I don't know anyone who does. >>

huh???? are you saying that you don't run in lightmap mode in Q3? I obviously misread that.
EDIT -

<< Robo and I could have a conversation about what we had for lunch and we would end up arguing about video cards, it is what we do. >>

Ben, you know anytime we have an argument, I eat YOU for lunch.

<< I don't understand your comments about &quot;wumpus&quot;, and certainly don't see how they relate to either me or the site. He owns a nVidia board, so does Anand, Tom, Sharky, Kristoff, Kyle and Rev for that matter. >>

wumpus has been pretty open about his anti-3dfx, pro-nvidia bias.

Oh, and Weyoun:

<< Remember, live and let live people, we dont need a battleground here... >>

f*** that. You chowderheads need to see things MY WAY goddammit!

When you're wrong, you're just wrong. You want to see the light? COME to Butthead....

 

[BenSkywalker]

Hmmmm, I'll summarize on these-

16bit doesn't support transparencies, and there are Z-buffer issues with the Loki build of the game.

Dropping TC support for certain size textures drops it across the board, not just in Q3. No problem if you are compressing and decompresssing, the problem is when you are dealing with precompressed textures and your hardware can't handle it.

Pikcing on my slopie tipeing/spleling...

&quot;huh???? are you saying that you don't run in lightmap mode in Q3?&quot;

Hehe, never tried it before? Go to the console and type &quot;r_lightmap 1&quot; and then start a level, you can't miss what I mean(btw- of course I play with lightmaps, vertex svcks).

 

[RoboTECH]

holy $hit man, you responded to that last one before I could edit it.

Please reread one of my statements, just so I can get the dig in.

&quot;vertex svcks&quot;

yov from the Romans days there bud?

adn yse yor spelining suxlks

 

[RoboTECH]

heh....never tried the &quot;r_lightmap 1&quot; thing, hehehe...pretty funny

I could see that being rather advantageous tho, in a 1v1 match

 

[BenSkywalker]

&quot;heh....never tried the &quot;r_lightmap 1&quot; thing, hehehe...pretty funny&quot;

Toggle TC on and off on your GF2 and you will see the biggest remaining problem with it under Quake3. This is where ATi's disabling of 128x128 textures truly pays off.

 

[RoboTECH]

dude, I just took a screenie of

/r_lightmap 1
/r_Ext_compress_textures 0

on the 5500

HOLY $HIT, THAT IS HYSTERICAL!!!

I wish I could post it somewhere....

EDIT: Posted screenshot to alt.binaries.games.quake

checked it with the GTS, not seeing what you're talking about?

 

[RoboTECH]

Ben, just rechecked a few other screenies

I think I see what you're saying

walls look like a patchwork with TC enabled and r_lightmap 1

does r_lightmap remove the texture maps or something?

or only show the lightmaps?

 

[fodd3r]

funny how this thread use to be about the nv20.

btw, about nvidia's ogl being compared to sgi. that's cuz they stole some of sgi's talent pool!

 

[BenSkywalker]

Robo-

&quot;walls look like a patchwork with TC enabled and r_lightmap 1

does r_lightmap remove the texture maps or something?

or only show the lightmaps?&quot;

Yes, it only shows lightmaps and removes(most) of the regular textures.

The patchwork that you see running r_lightmap 1 is the problem with compressing lightmaps, and I have noticed(after much testing) that this is only an issue with the infinite light. In other words, the lightmaps generated by torches, fire, rockets or whatever have no problems, they aren't compressed. Unfortunately, they would be the easy ones to &quot;fix&quot;(hack, depending on your choice of words). Still trying to figure that out, anyone have any ideas I'm all ears

 

[RoboTECH]

actually fodd3r, thsi thread was NEVER about NV20

I merely used the NV20 as a tool to get to my real point:

If I can't argue with the peeps on this board next spring, I'm gonna be mighty bored