The NSA is where hardcore trolls come from

[schmuckley]

"There's a lot more in Greenwald's writeup, which you should read, but just a few of the key slides are worth reading to get a sense of what's going on here. This isn't just about infiltrating terrorist organizations. They seem to be using these kinds of techniques on just about anyone they dislike, which harkens back to the Hoover-era FBI infiltrating and seeking to discredit anti-war groups. It also raises very serious questions about whether these efforts are being used to stifle political expression. "
Source: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...-manipulate-deceive-destroy-reputations.shtml

I guarantee there's at least 2 on this forum.

 

[ivwshane]

The question is; how do we stop this or limit agencies like the NSA? A presidents actions are only temporary (as soon as he is out of office the whole mess starts over again). Half of congress supports shit like this and the gridlock alone guarantees this will not be addressed.

So what options are left?

 

[BoberFett]

The question is; how do we stop this or limit agencies like the NSA? A presidents actions are only temporary (as soon as he is out of office the whole mess starts over again). Half of congress supports shit like this and the gridlock alone guarantees this will not be addressed.

So what options are left?

 

[Jaskalas]

The question is; how do we stop this or limit agencies like the NSA? A presidents actions are only temporary (as soon as he is out of office the whole mess starts over again). Half of congress supports shit like this and the gridlock alone guarantees this will not be addressed.

So what options are left?

Have like minded leaders elected to State office. Then with the power of an offical government you secede from the corruption of Washington. Your State no longer recognizes their authority.

The only power they have is what we allow them to have. It is our choice, we can simply take it back.

 

[ivwshane]

Have like minded leaders elected to State office. Then with the power of an offical government you secede from the corruption of Washington. Your State no longer recognizes their authority.

The only power they have is what we allow them to have. It is our choice, we can simply take it back.

Who are your congressional representatives (rhetoric question), will you be voting them out? If not then what bills have they sponsored or co-sponsored that would address this issue? If you plan on voting them out, who are you looking to give your vote to?

 

[Attic]

The fix is in providing government transparency. I base that on the idea that this type of behavior is not tolerated by a non ignorant public.

Obama has done a 180 on this campaign promise, I don't know why, I don't think for once he was lying regarding his intent to to add government transparency.

There will always be a group who seeks to do what is being done here by the NSA. Folks operating under the shadow of government are given huge leverage against any pushback if they can do so in secret and with massive funding vs any other group/identity that would be exposed.

Snowden :ninja: This is huge news, and again shows conspiracy theories in this case were conspiracy facts. The nutjobs/sociopaths forming this arm of the NSA are as bad as any foreign enemy.

 

[michal1980]

The question is; how do we stop this or limit agencies like the NSA? A presidents actions are only temporary (as soon as he is out of office the whole mess starts over again). Half of congress supports shit like this and the gridlock alone guarantees this will not be addressed.

So what options are left?

and for our first nsa funded example.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Who are your congressional representatives (rhetoric question), will you be voting them out? If not then what bills have they sponsored or co-sponsored that would address this issue? If you plan on voting them out, who are you looking to give your vote to?

Will people stop making excuses for their Congressmen and President and hold them accountable or will they make excuses for them? As always, the latter.

 

[Meghan54]

Interesting article. Interesting presentation which was done by the British agency and only disseminated to the Americans. Not saying the NSA/FBI isn't doing the same exact thing, but the presentation struck me more as a "Look what we're doing!" brag session from the Brits.

 

[z1ggy]

Nothing short of a violent uprising will stop it really.

Voting won't do anything as you'll just replace shit-for-brains with more shit-for-brains. Besides, even if they are honest to good people who want to change, what makes you think the NSA/FBI etc won't be in their shorts, threatening them to stand down?

It's gotten to the point where they have as much power as they want.

 

[Genx87]

The question is; how do we stop this or limit agencies like the NSA? A presidents actions are only temporary (as soon as he is out of office the whole mess starts over again). Half of congress supports shit like this and the gridlock alone guarantees this will not be addressed.

So what options are left?

Defunding it will take care of the problem. Find people willing to defund it and vote for them.

 

[Genx87]

This is how I think totalitarianism will be erected in the 21st century. They(totatlitarisn,authoritarians) have tried culling the population of rival views via force in the past. That proved costly and discredited themselves in the end.

But technology lets them build a profile they can use to destroy people. And most people wont view that as oppressing because the person isnt being put in a camp.

 

[boomerang]

There is a way.

The game is about winning. It's not about the people and it's not about the country it's about power. Republicans want power, Democrats want power. They will do whatever they have to do to get it. They're doing it and much of it right out in the open and much of it with vocal support of our citizens.

You can't vote this out by voting R or D. You won't convince enough in Congress to defund it. There is no third party strong enough to change our system that has become totally and wholly corrupt over time. But there is still a way to rein in the power of our elected officials in Washington and my hope is that enough people in this nation can put aside the notion of "winning" long enough to support a Convention of States.

Amend the Constitution to curtail the power of an out of control government and restore the power to the people. Our founders knew we would reach this point one day. They gave us a tool to control those that purport to represent us. But only we can wield that tool.

http://conventionofstates.com/

There is a very real chance we're too far apart from a political perspective within the nation to accomplish a successful article V convention. We've been divided on purpose. Compartmentalized into groups for the purposes of our elected masters. They have done their work very well. We need to come together to the extent of reining in the power of these elected officials. This won't be about healthcare, or big business, or bankers or delta smelt, it will be about restoring the power to where it was supposed to be - with the people.

 

[ivwshane]

Defunding it will take care of the problem. Find people willing to defund it and vote for them.

But that's the problem, who is willing to defund it or at least offer up proper oversight? I know of one person and to be honest, I think he is a crackpot.

 

[Jaskalas]

Who are your congressional representatives (rhetoric question), will you be voting them out?

Shelby and Sessions for Senators. The former being a clear ideological opponent, the latter being more favorable.

If not then what bills have they sponsored or co-sponsored that would address this issue? If you plan on voting them out, who are you looking to give your vote to?

You appear to misunderstand the point I made. I want states to secede from the Union. I do not believe Congress will ever release its power, nor men elected to do so. It requires local government and local interests to break the deadlock in Washington by bypassing them entirely.

Your whole post is directed at Washington DC, and that is where it is mistaken.

 

[ivwshane]

Shelby and Sessions for Senators. The former being a clear ideological opponent, the latter being more favorable.



You appear to misunderstand the point I made. I want states to secede from the Union. I do not believe Congress will ever release its power, nor men elected to do so. It requires local government and local interests to break the deadlock in Washington by bypassing them entirely.

Your whole post is directed at Washington DC, and that is where it is mistaken.

Lol! Good luck with that!

 

[Thebobo]

Nothing short of a violent uprising will stop it really.

Voting won't do anything as you'll just replace shit-for-brains with more shit-for-brains. Besides, even if they are honest to good people who want to change, what makes you think the NSA/FBI etc won't be in their shorts, threatening them to stand down?

It's gotten to the point where they have as much power as they want.

Violent uprising? Doubt that would ever happen, not about this. They'll just use your violent uprising as an excuse for more surveillance to protect the homeland.

Never liked the name Homeland sounded like a Nazi Germany agency.

 

[Oldgamer]

"There's a lot more in Greenwald's writeup, which you should read, but just a few of the key slides are worth reading to get a sense of what's going on here. This isn't just about infiltrating terrorist organizations. They seem to be using these kinds of techniques on just about anyone they dislike, which harkens back to the Hoover-era FBI infiltrating and seeking to discredit anti-war groups. It also raises very serious questions about whether these efforts are being used to stifle political expression. "
Source: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...-manipulate-deceive-destroy-reputations.shtml

I guarantee there's at least 2 on this forum.

christ...

 

[boomerang]

christ...

Yeah, they're going after him too...

 

[DucatiMonster696]

The idea or notion that you can grow government to bloated levels and expect transparency is naive. The reality is government big enough to provide you with everything is a government big enough to take everything you have from you and destroy you individually. If we truly want to reign in the NSA and other run away agencies throughout the Federal government then we must seek ways to 1.) Curb its growth, 2.) Curb its ability to erode our individual rights and take back those rights we have allowed to be taken away and 3.) Find ways to actually decrease its size. Anything else is just a bandaid approach that only provides a false sense of security long enough for some people to forget about that which concerns them.

 

[schmuckley]

Interesting:Of the 3 I have pegged to be those spoken of in the article,0 have posted here

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Interesting:Of the 3 I have pegged to be those spoken of in the article,0 have posted here

Remember when I said this:

Tomorrow I'll start a thread, and in it you are going to be cordially invited to debate me on the merits of evolution. Be sure to look for it.

And then you said this:

O I will.

What happened?

 

[Anarchist420]

Secession is the really the only way out of this shit. The only other thing i can think of is for one State to stop taking federal money, to balance its budget, restore hard money (which is one of only a few things that the Constitution is actually pretty clear about) by making an ounce of gold worth $10k in taxes while gold is spent by that State at $100/oz. once one State does those 4 things all at one time, then others will follow, the greenback will be frozen, and then the U.S.G. will have to balance its budget.

 

[schmuckley]

O..now 1 has

 

[werepossum]

and for our first nsa funded example.

How so? I certainly don't agree with him that much, but his post was 100% valid. If this was only Obama, it would be over in three years. Instead, it's a continuum with every President adding to his power. Or at least attempting to do so; some, like Carter and Ford, are such non-entities that they are unable to expand their own personal power. His second part also is spot-on. Tennessee's Republican contingent all voted to cut back the NSA's power, but what are the odds of that if Republicans held the White House and the Senate? Zero. Neither party has anything near a majority supporting reducing government power. Closest thing we have are the Tea Partiers. Most of them in office are probably nothing more than opportunistic conservatives, and at least half the others are sufficiently socially conservative as to be easily diverted into extending government's power, just in slightly different direction. Yes, we have Senators and Representatives who earnestly speak against such government power, on both sides. So did Obama. Mostly what a politician says is designed to get him power, including decrying that power.

Yeah, they're going after him too...

LOL +1

The idea or notion that you can grow government to bloated levels and expect transparency is naive. The reality is government big enough to provide you with everything is a government big enough to take everything you have from you and destroy you individually. If we truly want to reign in the NSA and other run away agencies throughout the Federal government then we must seek ways to 1.) Curb its growth, 2.) Curb its ability to erode our individual rights and take back those rights we have allowed to be taken away and 3.) Find ways to actually decrease its size. Anything else is just a bandaid approach that only provides a false sense of security long enough for some people to forget about that which concerns them.

Spot on. I don't think any of this is practical though. Too big, too entrenched.