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The no-hate thread about why Skyrim is bad

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Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
9,372
0
76
So what the OP is complaining about is it isn't real enough? I suppose you'd like it if your character was permanently crippled from jumping off some place higher than he should have? Or how about a bear knocks the character down, and rips his head off before he can get back up? Hell, when was the last time anyone in real life had a remote chance of surviving hundreds of fights and battles with all kinds of goons trying to kill him?

I personally don't care if it's not real enough based on some academic logic, as long as it's fun to play. And Skyrim was fun indeed. Same thing with Fallout 3 or Oblivion.
 

diesbudt

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2012
3,393
0
0
So what the OP is complaining about is it isn't real enough? I suppose you'd like it if your character was permanently crippled from jumping off some place higher than he should have? Or how about a bear knocks the character down, and rips his head off before he can get back up? Hell, when was the last time anyone in real life had a remote chance of surviving hundreds of fights and battles with all kinds of goons trying to kill him?

I personally don't care if it's not real enough based on some academic logic, as long as it's fun to play. And Skyrim was fun indeed. Same thing with Fallout 3 or Oblivion.

Or taking an arrow or 2 in the chest then take a nap anywhere, and wake up fully healed like a miracle.
 

ss284

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,534
0
0
I had never really played an elder scrolls game before, but on playing a friend's saved game, killing a dragon with a bow was so unbelievably easy, especially with health/mana regen.

This skill level in this game was tuned for people bad at FPS games. To you, the game might seem trivially easy. But to others without the reaction time or the thought process to basically never die, the game probably seems really challenging.
 
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shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
78,804
11,761
126
This skill level in this game was tuned for people bad at FPS games. To you, the game might seem trivially easy. But to others without the reaction time or the thought process to basically never die, the game probably seems really challenging.
Theres 5 different skill levels. You're telling me the highest is still too easy?
 

thespyder

Golden Member
Aug 31, 2006
1,979
0
0
I had never really played an elder scrolls game before, but on playing a friend's saved game, killing a dragon with a bow was so unbelievably easy, especially with health/mana regen.

This skill level in this game was tuned for people bad at FPS games. To you, the game might seem trivially easy. But to others without the reaction time or the thought process to basically never die, the game probably seems really challenging.
Which is funny, because there were a number of areas where I was one-hit killed. And still others where I died repeatedly an unreasonable number of times after getting jumped by wizards far more powerful than my character.

Not every game needs to be so tough that only 1% of the consumers ever beat it, just to not be called easy.
 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
3
0
first person combat controls declined from Oblivion to Skyrim (at least outside of magic where dual wielding powers could be very cool) and is ultimately what ruined the game most for me
 

Northern Lawn

Platinum Member
May 15, 2008
2,231
1
0
first person combat controls declined from Oblivion to Skyrim (at least outside of magic where dual wielding powers could be very cool) and is ultimately what ruined the game most for me
If you're saying that wasd is a bad thing for these rpg's I have the exact opposite opinion. But I'm not a true RPG fan, I did like morrowind loved it, bought Oblivion only played a few hours, Bought Skyrim when it came out but I still haven't played it ... Still, I like the controls in Morrowind. The early rpgs where you click and watch your player fight like Knight of the old republic, never winter nights and baulders gate (All of which I tried to like) I hate that game play.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
7
0
If you're saying that wasd is a bad thing for these rpg's I have the exact opposite opinion. But I'm not a true RPG fan, I did like morrowind loved it, bought Oblivion only played a few hours, Bought Skyrim when it came out but I still haven't played it ... Still, I like the controls in Morrowind. The early rpgs where you click and watch your player fight like Knight of the old republic, never winter nights and baulders gate (All of which I tried to like) I hate that game play.
You must be really young to call those games 'early rpgs'. :p They were some of the best RPGs ever made, with a level of detail, story, and characters not seen since. :(

I agree with most of the OP's sentiments. The last TES game I enjoyed was Morrowind, Oblivion required so many mods to fix it wasn't worth the effort. I may pick up Skyrim when its <$20, but the FPS-esque game play and complete lack of character mean there's a good chance it'll get played for about 30 minutes, then tossed aside.

Edit - Also, in Fallout 3 and New Vegas, you're not going to take on the toughest opponents in the game at level 1. It won't happen until the enemy gets stuck in the terrain and you can pelt it with ranged weapons for hours. :p
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
26,826
273
126
As for the story in skyrim...that isnt even the main game. The storyline of your character is less than 5% of the content and the main meat of the game is the random encounters. If you help one side or the other in the civil war, characters in the game will sometimes pretend to be from the losing side and attempt to rob you. Characters recognise your skills or abilitiea and comment on it as you walk past. Find a cave and maybe get a new quest from someone standing outside. If younplay it for the first time nd walk around, you will discover more content than most games. Too many people abuse fast travel and miss a very good percentage ofngame content that randomly happens as you walk through the world.
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,662
119
106
www.neftastic.com
So what you're saying is that Skyrim is a bad game because you can use exploits to beat it and you don't like the way they told the story?

Cool story bro.

Let me just say this - having been an old pen and paper gamer myself: If you applied your "rules" in why Skyrim is "bad" to a pen and paper RPG that I was playing, I would walk out on your game because you're a horrible GM that goes out of his way to make games boring.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
9
81
As for the story in skyrim...that isnt even the main game. The storyline of your character is less than 5% of the content and the main meat of the game is the random encounters. If you help one side or the other in the civil war, characters in the game will sometimes pretend to be from the losing side and attempt to rob you. Characters recognise your skills or abilitiea and comment on it as you walk past. Find a cave and maybe get a new quest from someone standing outside. If younplay it for the first time nd walk around, you will discover more content than most games. Too many people abuse fast travel and miss a very good percentage ofngame content that randomly happens as you walk through the world.
yeah. the main quest in the Elder scrolls games have been secondary. its about exploration and doing millions of side quest! oh and mods.
 

thejunglegod

Golden Member
Feb 12, 2012
1,356
34
91
Yeah, the main quest quite frankly felt like a secondary quest. At least in Oblivion, you felt there was something bad happening around you and I tried so hard to not let Sean Bean die.
Here, the bigger problem seems to be the political fiasco and the dragon is just thrown in for fillers. But TES, after Morrowind, was never about the main quest. It was more about Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood etc.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,386
2
81
Everything is a puss compared Morrowind. Dragons, daedra you name it game scales with you and least common denominator player as opposed to areas youd get wrecked in old games if you stumbled into wrong area not to mention you had to be good or find abusive strats to win.

UI sucks ass. No 1990s paper doll is a total fail. Even skyUI doesnt really make it usable.

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/EricSchwarz/20111114/8890/User_Interface_Analysis_Skyrim.php

More analysis here why Skyrim is worst UI or all time.
 
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imaheadcase

Diamond Member
May 9, 2005
3,850
7
76
WRONG!
Just before Christmas they had a sale on Steam. It came down 40 percent.
Which is also what New Vegas and all the others did.

While other games out over a year was $20 by then. You know what I mean..it has to be the longest running game that stays the same price in history of games. It came out Nov 11.
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
15,682
12
81
www.markbetz.net
Everything is a puss compared Morrowind. Dragons, daedra you name it game scales with you and least common denominator player as opposed to areas youd get wrecked in old games if you stumbled into wrong area not to mention you had to be good or find abusive strats to win.

UI sucks ass. No 1990s paper doll is a total fail. Even skyUI doesnt really make it usable.

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/EricSchwarz/20111114/8890/User_Interface_Analysis_Skyrim.php

More analysis here why Skyrim is worst UI or all time.
Especially Cliff Racers. You're not a man until you've crossed the mountains from Balmora to the ashlands, and fought 300 Cliff Racers on the way. Now that's an RPG!
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
78,804
11,761
126
While other games out over a year was $20 by then. You know what I mean..it has to be the longest running game that stays the same price in history of games. It came out Nov 11.
Umm, it was reduced in price RIGHT AFTER it came out.

Jesus, you guys are spoiled and cheap.
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
81
While other games out over a year was $20 by then. You know what I mean..it has to be the longest running game that stays the same price in history of games. It came out Nov 11.
I was going to type a rebuttal to this, but I'm so confused that I simply don't know how to respond. So, in the interest of brevity: Wat?
 

diesbudt

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2012
3,393
0
0
Take one in the knee and you will be forced to retire. :D
/mental note - Wear kneeguards.

Also a funny parody of this in the first weeks of Diablo 3.

"I used to be a gamer like you, but then I took an Error 37 in the diablo 3."
 

Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,148
1
76
Even the originals (Oblivion and Morrowind) had their faults.

Morrowind: Get your haggle skill up and you can go around to every merchant, buy all they had and sell it back to them for more than what you bought. Rinse, repeat.

Oblivion: Some skills, like sneak, could be increased with a few well places books on the keyboard. End up sneaking into a wall near a critter. A few bathroom breaks later and I could sneak up on a wild animal in an open field in full daylight.

I have not played Skyrim yet. I think it looks really nice, but I can see how many games have been dumbed down. That is disappointing. I would LIKE a game that was a bit more like Fallout (requiring some actual physical skill as well as "level"), and I also like the "get better at the tings you have been doing, not the things you have never done (like being able to do kung-fu because you picked someone's pocket...).

I can see the grind problem, and that is something I fear in most of these games. Missions with little point. I also do not like the ones that have no time limit, but to be fair, sometimes that is not fair to do to someone with a large mission list.

Dead Again was one game that was VERY frustrating. You would save at a point, get a few missions, then notice one, the main plotline, was about to expire. Your save point was very close to this, so you could not go back a bit. So you had to go out, unprepared, to battle a guy with VERY good aim... I gave up after 3-4 tries and have not played it since (how long ago was that?).

At the same time, it was still a fun, and different, game.


As for the World Scale, I agree there too. They are making it too easy. Maybe what they should do is have SOME sort of penalty (like gold for a trip?), time limits on certain objectives that would force you to take a wagon or boat instead of walk, and random encounters even on quick-travel.

They should also have areas you can NOT quick-travel through (surprise/ambush/danger zones).

But so long as they are starting to make the game mechanic more... "lifelike" (arrows that do not follow a strait line) I will still give it a try.... when the price drops to something a bit less XBoxy
 

Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,148
1
76
Umm, it was reduced in price RIGHT AFTER it came out.

Jesus, you guys are spoiled and cheap.
And it went right back up and has stayed at $59.99 ever since.

Well, there was a week where it went on sale for $40 I think. But for a single player (not online co-op) there is really no point to buy it early.

Example: Deux Ex:HR. I got that, on SALE, for $30.

This weekend, it, and ALL of its expansions are on sale for 75% off. I could have bought them all for $15 if I waited. :(
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
81
And it went right back up and has stayed at $59.99 ever since.

Well, there was a week where it went on sale for $40 I think. But for a single player (not online co-op) there is really no point to buy it early.

Example: Deux Ex:HR. I got that, on SALE, for $30.

This weekend, it, and ALL of its expansions are on sale for 75% off. I could have bought them all for $15 if I waited. :(
Of course there is a point to buy it early; you get to play it. This whole thing boils down to supply and demand and what people are willing to pay for something. I may not see Prometheus in theaters because I don't want to spend $20+ on tickets for a two hour film. At the same time, I don't mind spending $40 on a game that has given me, to date, 400 hours of enjoyment. That's ten cents per hour, which is a pretty amazing deal. Even if I'd bought it at $60, it's paid for itself and then some in the entertainment I've gotten from it. It may be different for you, and that's fine. But to say there's no point? Balderdash.

I may sit around twiddling my thumbs waiting for Max Payne 3 to go on sale. Or I may say "screw it" and buy it because, at a certain point, my desire to play something overwhelms my desire to save money. The game is worth what people are willing to pay, and if $60 is too rich for your blood, the game designers don't honestly care as long as other people are willing to pay it.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,990
2
81
If your complaint about the game is that it doesn't have enough grinding, then I want the list of games you like because I'll probably think they're abysmal

I'm very glad that games are not stuck in the past like that. What a horrifying thought...
Being a massive grind fest can make the game feel more rewarding. Remember World of Warcraft before the first expansion? The game had a really epic feel to it. Everything was big and it took a long time to do certain things. The "fast" way to cross the west continent from north to south took 10 minutes. Lots of travel time made people soak up more of the story and understand what's going on. It would take months to get proper gear, and you'd wear it with pride because it took so much effort. All of that is gone now. There's no travel time to dungeons, so I don't actually know where most of the dungeons are or the story behind them. Being instantly teleported to dungeons also makes people very impatient - you'll get booted for being afk longer than 30 seconds. The game gets boring extremely fast because you can go from ungeared to completely geared in a couple weeks.
 

Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,148
1
76
AP, I know what you are talking about, and I agree. But the key here is simple, I am disappointed that it has taken this long for prices to come down (they have not yet).


Most games drop in price quicker than this. I have been waiting patiently (and looking each weekend). I am at the $20-$30 range for most games I buy (less for smaller indies) so $60... when games like this cost $40 not too long ago (5 years?) is just too much.
 

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