The next step in gaming

[TheNiceGuy]

I remember when computers were first introduced en mass to the public market in the early 80's. Video arcades were exciting places. Gaming seemed to have many horizons. There were of course the flat-screen, manipulate a joystick type games. But there were also things like interactive 3D holograms, and submarine periscopes, and laser pistols, and auto cockpits, and the list goes on. All this variety happened in a short time, and I remember ideas like the movie Tron fueling our imagination of how PC games had the potential to become more than limited to a flat screen.

Fast-forward to 2005. There has been over 20 years of time for ideas and development. We would expect a steady rate of growth in the industry. But the cumulative results don't seem to live up to the record of the past. For the vast majority of time the industry has been active, we see the same format for a game being made - hundreds of thousands of times over: manipulate a controller while staring at a small, flat, screen. That's it. All the hype about gaming 'revolutions' like "New Direct X version" this, or "New pixel shader" that are just that - marketing hype. With the exception of the internet (and perhaps a few gimmicks, like microphones ala NDS and PSP, or 'dance pads' from Nintendo), I don't see any actual paradigm shifts having happened in the gaming industry in over 20 years since it started.

Why is this? And if it can be corrected, what kind of new realms could gaming chart?

Just off the top of my head, the point of gaming seems to be the human experience. Perhaps involving the five senses more. Or a total shift away from the console/screen design to something more interactive or real.

I know there are limitations, so don't tell me about those. I want to hear ideas. And solutions. If you argue for your limitations - they're yours.

I also wonder about the double edge sword of the industry. While it does have the ability to produce, finance comes first. Not unlike trying to build a better car (some of which would cause the auto/oil industry to lose money).


Anyway, ideas?

 

[Albatross]

well,some point in the future the paradigm might change from "commercial games" to "good games", but i doubt it.all this fancy 3d and stuff requires lots of money so you got sell it.the fun i had ,i don`t know with doom2 and x-com, still beats the entertainment i get from new games.
i think, now that u brought it up,it`s like the auto industry;flying car anyone?
so no ,no radical renewal.just my 2 cents.

 

[MetalStorm]

There is a reason for what the thread starter mentioned, and it's because PC gaming has become more popular and cheaper for the game manufacturers to make and deploy.

While you might have periscopes and stuff like that in arcades, how many people are going to have one connected to their computer so that they can play a certain game? I'm guessing very few!

Also, PCs are almost universal and you don't have to travel to play as you would in an arcade. This would seem like a platform limitation and it is however there are plenty of good games out and it's not just about the interface.

 

[AbsolutDealage]

Originally posted by: TheNiceGuy
Perhaps involving the five senses more.

There has been extensive research done in this area, although we have not advanced very much. Obviously in the realm of sound and sight, we continue to improve in a relatively continuous manner. It may still be on a flat screen, but I think you can see the improvements in graphics and the improvement in sound technology over the years. The other three, however, are significantly more difficult.

For sight, we have an easy means of reproducing any color through the combination of red, green, and blue light. For sound, we can reproduce any audible sound via the combination of sine waves. However, when we enter the realm of touch, taste, and smell, there is no known way of reproducing these by means of component combination. That means that in order for us to smell, for example, pancakes in our fictional video game, we would need some sort of aerosol or the like that contained the essence of pancake smell. We can't make any smell we want by simply combining some base smells (at least, nobody has figured out how to yet). The same goes for taste and touch as well.

Actually, smell is probably the most interesting of the three that are left. Smell is so hardwired into the brain, it would enhance the experience of a game greatly if we were to come up with some means of recreating smells on the fly.

Anyways, that's my take on the matter.

 

[Stoanhart]

I think physics will be the next one. It's already starting, but really, engines like HAVOCII that HL2 uses, are incredibly basic. See this link:

PhysX

I think in maybe ten years or so, when the physics departent has advanced like the graphics have between Doom2 and Half-life2, we will see games with completely real-time environments. Where absolutely anything can be messed with, broken, blasted through, and expected to react exactly like in real life. This will add a lot of new things to games. How many times have you played a game and been like, "Damn, if only I could..."

Ofcourse, since this will slowly develop, by the time it reaches that point, we will take it for granted, like graphics, and be like "What's the next big thing???"

There is also a device coming out to add smell to games!!

I think the time of overnight, industry-altering advances are over. Now it's just time to improve and perfect games, because they already cover most of the bases to be quite an impressive simulation.

AI could be another one. Real AI. As in, walk up to random character on the street ing GTA47: Timbucktoo and strike up a conversation.

That or VR. Real VR. As in, plug cable into head ala Matrix, and disappear into indistinguishably real world. Man, imaging games like NFS:UG like that. What a rush!!!

 

[Keill]

PC gaming has become cheaper?

I'll think you'll find it's the opposite...:-/

 

[TheNiceGuy]

Thank you for the comments.
I guess what I am really getting at is trying to look beyond our confines. A totaly new dimension. Have a look at the 10-part series called "Connections" that was put out by the BBC about 20 years ago.

 

[Stoanhart]

Originally posted by: TheNiceGuy
Thank you for the comments.
I guess what I am really getting at is trying to look beyond our confines. A totaly new dimension. Have a look at the 10-part series called "Connections" that was put out by the BBC about 20 years ago.

Cool, I'll just go dig through by BBC Video Archive...

Oh wait, I don't have one

 

[ahurtt]

Good topic. I'd say the demand has to be there for the next major revolution in gaming to occur. And then it will be a while before "home versions" of these innovations become available. Just like when you used to have to go to the Arcade before the advent of the Atari and home PC's. If you go to someplace like Dave and Busters or Jillians (one of those big adult "chuck e. cheese" places) you can start to see some of the innovations that are out there but right now, none of these big unwieldy "entertainment devices" are suited for home use because of their sheer bulk, size, and pricetags. However, I am noticing a new trend that I like to call the "active video game" that I think is being spurned on mostly due to the epidemic of overweight children in America. You know the ones with the game pads you have to dance on or jump on and such to control your guy on the screen. Not that this is new because they had such things back in the Nintendo days. But now they are capable of much more complex interactions and such than they were back then. This, to me, is an early precursor for what is to come. They already have things like VR glasses and such that are in their early infancies but demand for such things has not really developed so far. I think once somebody takes a leap of faith and dumps a lot of money and effort into something new that people go ape$hit for, the rest of the market will jump on the bandwagon. But until that first brave pioneer comes along and takes the risk and succeeds (we never hear much about the risk takers that fail) we won't see much change. Something needs to spur that change and wake people up to the possibilities that are out there.

 

[TheNiceGuy]

Good points Ahurt. Everyone who kind of gives up on the idea because of size/expense is taking the wrong approach to change. I mean, look at the first computer. You couldn't play games on it, it took up a whole room, and was so expensive you needed the a government to help you build it. The idea of using the technology for games probably didn't even occur to anyone. But here we are, the worlds largest game industry based on that technololgy. Brainstorming anyone?

And Stoanhart- you have internet, so you do have the BBC library. It's called bittorrent. If its not available you can request it.
That "Connections" series changed the way I think about, well, change. It follows the people, accidents, ideas and happenings in history that led to a few of the key technology concepts that we rely on today to shape our civilization. Really interesting series. It will change most peoples idea about technology and how inventions come about. Definatly not linear.

EDIT: ahurt- ya, a few years ago I went to a 'Palaydium' or whatever its called (Sega or Sony owned I think, a huge arcade). There were some rudimentry alternatives there, but still all centered around a view screen (or view gogles). There was a couple of hangliders with sim helmets. Also a fighting sim where a wall of sensors reads if you duck or kick, etc.

 

[MisterChief]

The ultamate step up in gaming technology will be the elimination of a user interface; that is, anything that will drag you away from the gaming experience, such as the mouse, and the keyboard (along with the infamous "damn flashlight!"). How this will be obtained is anyone's guess, so there you go. Ponder that for as long as you like

 

[Stoanhart]

Originally posted by: TheNiceGuy
And Stoanhart- you have internet, so you do have the BBC library. It's called bittorrent. If its not available you can request it.

EDIT: ahurt- ya, a few years ago I went to a 'Palaydium' or whatever its called (Sega or Sony owned I think, a huge arcade). There were some rudimentry alternatives there, but still all centered around a view screen (or view gogles). There was a couple of hangliders with sim helmets. Also a fighting sim where a wall of sensors reads if you duck or kick, etc.

LOL, I am aware of bittorrent. I just figured, with it functioning on the basis of file popularity, a 20 year old BBC file was out of the question. I'll look, definatley sounds good.

I was at a playdium once, and the best thing I saw there (didn't ride it - yes, I said RIDE, 'cause I only had a few bucks left) was a machine where you used a computer do design a roller coaster, then got into a little pod the size of one roller coaster cart. The top closes, presenting you with a big screen right in front of you. The whole pod then moves with the video to make it feel real. I'm sure you're all thinking I've seen those before, with prerenderd videos. Well ues, you have. But there are 2 major differences:
1) you get to design your ride and
2) since, unlike the full sized pre-renederd motion simulator rides, it is so small they were actually able to give it full range of motion. It was able to invert and everything, so your roller coaster could have loops! I've been on regular motion simulators before, and they were so convincing, that in scenes where the ride went upside down, or over a big jump, it actually felt like it. You could almost feel the g-forces, but it was all just the power of the illusion helped by a tad of motion. I really wish I had gone on the one in playdium, because I can only imagine how intense it would have been if it were actually able to invert.

Come to think of it, in a few months I have to go through Vancouver (it was in a mall there), and I will make sure I go ride that thing.

 

[Stoanhart]

anyone else who's interested, I found this:
http://bitzi.com/search/?keywords=bbc+connections

It only has the first 6 parts, and I haven't tried em yet, so the links may be dead. I will try to DL one over night

 

[TheNiceGuy]

Ya, I was also at the Vancouver Playdium, but it was a while back. I got the 10-part series 'Connections' off of a BT site, it was up for a long time. If you can't find it, I can seed it for you (after I figure out how to do that!). It reall made me think, in a positive stimulating way, and was really entertaining as well. A uni lecturer wrote and hosted it.


EDIT: Actualy, it would be helpful to get a philosopher on here. To define the terms. I mean, what are people really after with games or sims? A perfect 'sim' would be reality, which people don't want, right?
Like how real will something get before people have trouble diferentiating it from reality? And with what results? And what (a big question) elements must there be for something to pass as reality, in our perception/life? Like if things all went perfectly, would we reject it on some level because it is not in our makeup to have perfection? ...sorry, bit off topic!

 

[TheNiceGuy]

Hi Stoanhart- the shows are designed to play in order, but its ok if you can't do that. The first show is more of an intro, and the rest really dig in, with the last being a kind of wrapup and chance for the creator to give his opinions.

 

[TheNiceGuy]

Just a side note, the connections show details how war, religion, and money are the primary sparks to invention. Iraq :Q

 

[Stoanhart]

got the torrents
http://www.mvgroup.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1181&hl=bbc+connections

what a cool forum. Seems to be all about this kind of hard to get and fresh stuff, rather than your average torrent site, trying to cram the lates episodes of CSI down your throat

EDIT: Oh, BTW, if the link doesn't work, then you need to sign up and log in, then it will work.

 

[Stoanhart]

WOW. Guess what? That series is only the FIRST 10 part series. There's 3!!! And they're all on this that forum. This listing has all three threads on it, each the complete series!!! check it out!
http://www.mvgroup.org/forums/index.php?showforum=22

EDIT 1: lol, i'm gonna have to have both my work and home computer goin at it to get all of these!

EDIT 2: My GOD! I am freaking OUT over this site! They have sooo much good stuff. Greatest find ever! Now I have something worthwhile to download, not just south park episodes from mrtwig.net! They have all sorts of documentaries in HDTV with 6channel surround sound. Real rips!!!

 

[TheNiceGuy]

sounds like a good find. I'll check it out!

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: TheNiceGuy
Ya, I was also at the Vancouver Playdium, but it was a while back. I got the 10-part series 'Connections' off of a BT site, it was up for a long time. If you can't find it, I can seed it for you (after I figure out how to do that!). It reall made me think, in a positive stimulating way, and was really entertaining as well. A uni lecturer wrote and hosted it.


EDIT: Actualy, it would be helpful to get a philosopher on here. To define the terms. I mean, what are people really after with games or sims? A perfect 'sim' would be reality, which people don't want, right?
Like how real will something get before people have trouble diferentiating it from reality? And with what results? And what (a big question) elements must there be for something to pass as reality, in our perception/life? Like if things all went perfectly, would we reject it on some level because it is not in our makeup to have perfection? ...sorry, bit off topic!

I think people want a reality which is free from the consequences of actions that they would normally suffer in the "real world." Sadly, the popularity of first person shooter games demonstrates this. . .that we have the desire to kill people but not really kill them or risk being killed ourselves. We want to do things in games that are "forbidden" or "taboo" or impossible in real life without suffering the consequences of such actions. This lets us break out of our illusion of freedom without actually hurting other people or putting ourselves in true danger. . .but we get a little taste of what it might be like. Those rides and games at places like big amusement theme parks are movin us closer and closer to that virtual reality. Ultimately, I think what people want is something akin to (or maybe exactly like) holodecks in Star Trek where your imagination is the only boundary but the safety protocols are there to prevent the true laws of reality from taking effect.

 

[imported_jb]

i think games will develop at their current pace for a bit.

plugging the game into your spine is out of the question. a VR goggle monitor that completely covers your eyes is not, and would probably be damn cool. soon, in their spare time, people will be sitting on stationary office chairs, in the middle of a room, with goggles on, Playstation controller in hand, spinning around & around.

the Playstation controller is a Great design. i wouldn't be suprised if it could comfortably replace the mouse and keyboard.

replacing your current computer monitor with a HD flatscreen at the end of your desk will squeeze some replay value out of your games. or put your TV on a desk and sit right in front of it, eye-level, w/ a PS2 or XBOX. PC gaming tends to have a slight advantage there.

MMO's have barely developed to their potential.
i wouldn't mind spending some time reflecting in an immersive MMO, but socially, its a little messy. do they really expect people to sit there and /pizza their days away?

i'm still waiting for the ultimate portable system. when you can play all your video games thru your cell phone, stuff could get interesting. a little WoW or HL2 when work's slow? maybe the Sony PSP w/ cell phone capabilites is all i'm asking for. all it needs to do is receive 50fps 1024x768 video. let the home computers do the work. and video out too. so i can remotely use my PC on any tv monitor, with my "cell phone".

and how immersive do you really want to get in an actual arcade?

 

[AbsolutDealage]

Originally posted by: jb
the Playstation controller is a Great design. i wouldn't be suprised if it could comfortably replace the mouse and keyboard.

Ok, let's have a little FPS shootout... you get the PS controller and I get the mouse and keyboard....

 

[imported_jb]

Originally posted by: AbsolutDealage

Ok, let's have a little FPS shootout... you get the PS controller and I get the mouse and keyboard....

ha. well the ergonomics of the PS controller are good. the buttons could use some work.

 

[Stoanhart]

Originally posted by: jb
the Playstation controller is a Great design. i wouldn't be suprised if it could comfortably replace the mouse and keyboard.

:Q PLEASE tell me you're joking! The PS2 controller has got the be the most awkward (sp?), horrible piece on junk I've ever ha dthe misfurtune of coming into contact with. Just about ALL controllers suck. The only one I EVER liked were N64 nd Dreamcast. They know how to design a controller.

You'll pry my mouse out of my cold dead hands!

 

[AbAbber2k]

Originally posted by: AbsolutDealage
Ok, let's have a little FPS shootout... you get the PS controller and I get the mouse and keyboard....

Old and tired... let's just let PC and Console gamers do their own thing and stop worrying about each other okay? I use to play FPSes like a FIEND. I wasted my life away on AQ2 and CS and I'll always love PC FPS gaming... but it's hard to beat relaxing on the couch with your favorite console games. Both just offer different things.

That said, I think it's entirely possible that someone will eventually build a controller that can come close to allowing the speed and precision of a mouse... just a matter of time + technology.