The Next Frontier in Social Justice: Fattitude

[Venix]

Nobody is denying that for the most part those who suffer from obesity have no small amount of responsibility for their condition. However, that is only a partial answer and if you ignore what causes people to make the poor decisions to begin with you are not going to be able to effectively address the problem.

The people that made the video (the topic of this thread) insist that obesity is perfectly healthy, and that obese people are just naturally larger through no fault of their own. They believe that losing weight is physically impossible and has no health benefits. "Fat Acceptance" is a dangerous movement that deserves every bit of scorn and ridicule it receives.

 

[Nebor]

The people that made the video (the topic of this thread) insist that obesity is perfectly healthy, and that obese people are just naturally larger through no fault of their own. They believe that losing weight is physically impossible and has no health benefits. "Fat Acceptance" is a dangerous movement that deserves every bit of scorn and ridicule it receives.

Yup. The miles of extra cardiovascular tissue that are required to support all that fat is itself very stressful on the heart.

 

[BoberFett]

Cost and availability of high quality ingredients are other issues.

I get tired of this bullshit excuse from losers. Crap quality fruits and vegetables would be a step up from fast food. Stop making excuses for fat losers.

 

[PlanetJosh]

Didn't read through every page but maybe it's genetic that some people stay skinny always even on a not so healthy diet. I'm one of those thin people who can eat a lot of junk/fatty food and not gain much weight. About 140 lbs at 20 and now about 140 lbs in my 50's with being about 140 lbs in between.

Of course I'll probably die from something caused by clogged arteries but that'll probably be my fault for not watching what I eat. I'm trying to lay of the sugars and fat or bad fat. And at the rate these medical studies are going who knows what bad fat is anymore.

 

[OverVolt]

Didn't read through every page but maybe it's genetic that some people stay skinny always even on a not so healthy diet. I'm one of those thin people who can eat a lot of junk/fatty food and not gain much weight. About 140 lbs at 20 and now about 140 lbs in my 50's with being about 140 lbs in between.

Of course I'll probably die from something caused by clogged arteries but that'll probably be my fault for not watching what I eat. I'm trying to lay of the sugars and fat or bad fat. And at the rate these medical studies are going who knows what bad fat is anymore.

People like you (and me, somewhat, or I used to anyway) tend to compensate by going long periods of fasting and then eating a ton of junk food. Its completely different than when someone gets in the habit of eating Jimmy Deans 3g trans fat lunch biscuit everyday then wash it down with a soda, everyday.

I actually made it a point to gain some weight. Went from 122 at my lowest (years ago, scrawny) to 172 at my highest down to 162 where I am comfortable. 150-160 is fine. I don't mind the extra 2.

I have no idea how people can stand weighing 200lbs because I felt pretty terrible overall at 172. Promptly lost 10 lbs.

 

[Fenixgoon]

isn't being overweight/obese linked to all sorts of medical issues such as high blood pressure, heart disease, joint pain/arthritis (especially knees), and diabetes in some cases? forget the physical aspects (e.g. attractiveness) and look from a purely medical perspective - what are comparative life expectancies and associated medical issues?

 

[nehalem256]

The facts show otherwise. While it may be easy to avoid becoming fat -- if you are well-educated on nutrition and have control of your meals -- that doesn't help people who are already fat, for example, those who've been fat since childhood, or those who've made poor decisions in the past but want to change now. It is not at all easy for those people (which, not coincidentally, describes the majority of the obese).

Actively working to prevent childhood obesity may help reduce this epidemic in the future, but the challenge is what can be done to help today? When the traditional diet and exercise "treatment" has a >99% failure rate for those who are extremely obese, it's time to look a bit deeper. Diet and exercise are clearly critical, but it is equally clear they are not enough.

And is the failure a result of the treatment not working, or of the patient not sticking to the treatment and instead going back to their old habits of eating 10,000 calories a day?

 

[Vaux]

There are interesting parallels between being fat and being gay. It's almost the same thing, really.

Both are born that way, both are not born that way, both are unhealthy, both are being arguably misclassified by medical agencies with agendas. The AMA has recently stated that being fat is a disease. So it's not really your fault you are fat, you just have a disease. Nice! Oh, and both are being praised as normal and acceptable by some groups. It was only a matter of time before fat people hopped on the gay bandwagon ride to equality.

The hypocrisy of you people that support being gay or gay marriage and don't support being fat, you should be ashamed. And you deserve your favorite word being thrown back at you, you bigots.

Now think about why you don't think being fat should be seen as acceptable. Can you apply those reasons similarly to why people should not think homosexuality should be acceptable?

 

[surfsatwerk]

There are interesting parallels between being fat and being gay. It's almost the same thing, really.

Both are born that way, both are not born that way, both are unhealthy, both are being arguably misclassified by medical agencies with agendas. The AMA has recently stated that being fat is a disease. So it's not really your fault you are fat, you just have a disease. Nice! Oh, and both are being praised as normal and acceptable by some groups. It was only a matter of time before fat people hopped on the gay bandwagon ride to equality.

The hypocrisy of you people that support being gay or gay marriage and don't support being fat, you should be ashamed. And you deserve your favorite word being thrown back at you, you bigots.

Now think about why you don't think being fat should be seen as acceptable. Can you apply those reasons similarly to why people should not think homosexuality should be acceptable?

lolwut?

 

[Pr0d1gy]

isn't being overweight/obese linked to all sorts of medical issues such as high blood pressure, heart disease, joint pain/arthritis (especially knees), and diabetes in some cases? forget the physical aspects (e.g. attractiveness) and look from a purely medical perspective - what are comparative life expectancies and associated medical issues?

Well, just from a common sense point of view, you don't see any obese 70 year old guys around. At all.

That said, I figure all the elitist eugenicists in this forum would be all for people dying in their 40's and 50's.

Vaux is right about one thing, being fat is just as bad as being a minority or gay when it comes to how you are treated socially.

 

[JTsyo]

Here's an extreme example of cutting calories.

In 1965, a severely obese man starved himself and survived off his body fat for 1 year and 17 days. He was continually monitored by University of Dundee medical staff in Scotland who only fed him yeast, multi-vitamins and occasionally potassium for his heart. They kept their eye on his condition and took routine blood tests. After all was said and done, he had dropped from 456 pounds to 180 pounds. He was weighed again 5 years later and had only put on 15 pounds.

 

[AViking]

Vaux is right about one thing, being fat is just as bad as being a minority or gay when it comes to how you are treated socially.

Maybe if you live in some backwoods area. Gays where I have lived in both Europe and the US were treated just fine.

Being fat is far more similar to people who smoke. It shows that you are unhealthy and you are treated as someone who doesn't care about their health, and if you have kids, those around you.

 

[fleshconsumed]

/Facepalm

Let me get this straight, you readily admit that the number of calories to the pound can be different as much as 34% between two people, 1200 calories, but you want to act like it is equivalent to balancing a checkbook, which, by the way, in my experience a lot of people can't do? Never mind that their number changes depending on age, hormonal changes, activity level changes, sleep cycles, general health, and a host of other factors, the fact alone, that you freely acknowledge, that the number varies for everyone in exactly how many calories will make one pound and the obvious, humans don't come with an instruction manual that indicate how many calories will do it for them, and on its face the idea that this is a simple task is already farcically absurd.

But it is equivalent to balancing a checkbook. Nobody is saying that everyone has exactly the same level of metabolism. Some people have faster metabolism, some people have slower metabolism. Some variance is normal. Some people exercise more, some people exercise less. There are differences between individuals, but the fact that everyone is different does not negate the "calories in vs calories out" equation for any given individual. It just means that some individuals will have to work harder than others.

Same with the balancing checkbook. Some individuals earn more money, so they will have more money deposited into their checking accounts. And some individuals carry more debt that weighs them down, so they have more expenses than others. Income usually also changes with age, people hit their best years in their early 30s, but after they hit 50's age discrimination might diminish their income stream. All in all it will be harder for a lower income individual with higher debt level to balance their checkbook, most likely sacrifices will have to be made somewhere, whether it's getting a used car, or giving up starbucks and cable, or shopping at IKEA instead of designer furniture store, or even giving up their 4 bedroom house for a small apartment. Who knows? But the bottom like is most people can balance their checkbook if they really want to, it's just harder for some individuals than others.

Nobody is saying that two people eating the same amount of food and doing the same amount of exercise will look exactly the same. People with higher metabolism will have easier time looking good. Nobody disputes that. What people are saying, is that everyone can look good and be healthy if they balance their individual "calories in vs calories out" equation. Just like with checkbook, some people will have to make more sacrifices, they will have to run more miles than others, or they will have to completely give up ice cream, but it is possible.

/double facepalm

Really, are you pretending that the body is a closed system wherein thermodynamics applies in a measurable and meaningful fashion in this discussion? Does nobody poop in your world? I think I finally have a good handle on how you got so full of shit...

Yes really. Food is calories in. Poop is essentially "calories out", or if you want to be precise it's a "calories out" byproduct. The food gets digested, converted into energy and whatever cannot be processed by the body gets expelled.

 

[nixium]

The people that made the video (the topic of this thread) insist that obesity is perfectly healthy, and that obese people are just naturally larger through no fault of their own. They believe that losing weight is physically impossible and has no health benefits. "Fat Acceptance" is a dangerous movement that deserves every bit of scorn and ridicule it receives.

This thread has gone far from the original point.

It's not basically a debate between the exercise + diet + stop being lazy camp and the "it's not that simple camp"

for the latter, would you agree with the point of this movie? That it's OK/acceptable to be fat?

 

[SMOGZINN]

And is the failure a result of the treatment not working, or of the patient not sticking to the treatment and instead going back to their old habits of eating 10,000 calories a day?

A recent study has linked willpower, like the type it takes to diet, to blood sugar levels. So, it might just be that dieting is counterproductive to losing weight.

The Physiology of Willpower: Linking Blood Glucose to Self-Control
Self-control failures are more likely when glucose is low or cannot be mobilized effectively to the brain

 

[nixium]

A recent study has linked willpower, like the type it takes to diet, to blood sugar levels. So, it might just be that dieting is counterproductive to losing weight.

The Physiology of Willpower: Linking Blood Glucose to Self-Control
Self-control failures are more likely when glucose is low or cannot be mobilized effectively to the brain

How could dieting be counterproductive? By itself it works. It's just that people don't stick to their diets.

 

[nehalem256]

A recent study has linked willpower, like the type it takes to diet, to blood sugar levels. So, it might just be that dieting is counterproductive to losing weight.

The Physiology of Willpower: Linking Blood Glucose to Self-Control
Self-control failures are more likely when glucose is low or cannot be mobilized effectively to the brain

I am thinking that gorging on 10,000 calories a day is without question counterproductive to losing weight.

 

[Nebor]

I've struck gold: http://www.reddit.com/r/fatacceptance/

It's about 25% actual fat acceptance non-sense, and 75% people viciously ripping on them.

Murder acceptance: Stop trying to force your life-affirming ideologies on me. If I want to kill people, its my choice!

The media just wants people alive to buy their products.

 

[Bowfinger]

I am thinking that gorging on 10,000 calories a day is without question counterproductive to losing weight.

If you can back up that figure with actual data, you might have a point. Otherwise, you're simply being an ignorant, hate-filled ass. Same as usual.

 

[Nebor]

Here's an extreme example of cutting calories.

Well it must have been because that guy had a good metabolism. We can't all be that lucky you bigot!

 

[Newell Steamer]

Fat shaming and thin privilege victims should roll with the GOP.

Just like how the conservatives feel there is a war against them (because they are not allowed to force their beliefs on others,...), fat people feel they are being singled out (because we are not building 30 inches plus wide plane seats and placing a whale on the cover of Playboy) for the wrong reasons as well.

And, in looking at that video, you mean to tell me that on a strict 1,500 calorie a day diet (with all the proper nutrients being accounted for; low salt, proteins and vitamins, etc.), you won't be the ideal weight? Or, lose any weight?

Also, folds of fat, heart disease, diabetes, etc,.. THAT is healthy?

 

[Bowfinger]

How could dieting be counterproductive? By itself it works. It's just that people don't stick to their diets.

It's easy to make simplistic declarations like, "stick to their diets," yet the fact remains that for the extremely obese, the diet and exercise treatment has a success rate of less than 1%. It's akin to telling a drowning person to "keep holding your breath." There's clearly more to it than that. I lack the expertise to explain this, and it sounds like even obesity experts don't yet understand all the factors at play, but the facts are what they are. For whatever reason, "stick to their diets" doesn't work (with rare exceptions).

As far as the fat acceptance video, I didn't watch it and have no interest in it. I have no right to "accept" someone's weight, any more than I have a right to accept their race, sexual preference, etc. Nor do you. Our obligation, as decent human beings, is to avoid stereotyping others based on superficial characteristics. Fat people are individuals. I know fat people who are smart, hard-working, and considerate of others. I also know fat people who are dumb, lazy assholes. And I know thin people who fall into both categories as well. People are diverse.

 

[schneiderguy]

First, let me say this is a remarkably stupid thread, even by P&N standards. A random Kickstarter campaign to showcase one person's opinion? Fecking hell, if I put up a thread every time someone had an agenda that wanted attention it would never end. What makes this either politics or news?

Fat Acceptance is a mainstream feminist belief, and feminists control the Democratic Party.

 

[nehalem256]

It's easy to make simplistic declarations like, "stick to their diets," yet the fact remains that for the extremely obese, the diet and exercise treatment has a success rate of less than 1%. It's akin to telling a drowning person to "keep holding your breath." There's clearly more to it than that. I lack the expertise to explain this, and it sounds like even obesity experts don't yet understand all the factors at play, but the facts are what they are. For whatever reason, "stick to their diets" doesn't work (with rare exceptions).

And again, is the issue that "sticking to their diets" doesn't produce results or that they fail to "stick to their diets"?

 

[nehalem256]

If you can back up that figure with actual data, you might have a point. Otherwise, you're simply being an ignorant, hate-filled ass. Same as usual.

So are you suggesting that you can lose weight while eating 10,000 calories a day and not exercising?