The New and Improved Republican Party . . .

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Let's all get to the Government Train Wreck - Coming soon to a Country near you !
(From the New York Times - Editorial)

The Republican Party has been in charge of the national agenda for almost three years now ? Democratic majorities in Congress don't crimp George W. Bush's style the way they did for his father or Ronald Reagan when they were in office. We have thus had an unobstructed view of what the 21st-century version of the party looks like. It's very clear this is not the father's G.O.P.

The most striking thing about the new Republicanism is the way it embraces big government. The Bush administration has presided over a $400 billion expansion of Medicare entitlements. The party that once campaigned to abolish the Department of Education has produced an education plan that involves unprecedented federal involvement in local public schools. There is talk from the White House about a grandiose new moon shot. Budgetary watchdogs like the Heritage Foundation echo the Republican Senator John McCain's complaint about "drunken sailor" spending.

All this has left Democrats spluttering over their own hijacked agenda while old-style Republican conservatives despair. "We have come loose from our moorings," Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska concluded as Congress left Washington at the end of the year. It was probably inevitable that a big central government would look a whole lot better to Republicans when they got control of it. And since this page tends to favor activist government, we have little reason to complain when the Bush administration agrees.

What has happened to the Republicans does not seem to reflect an actual shift in ideology; indeed, the philosophic center of this administration is hard to pin down. Yet whatever the reason, some formerly reliably Republican doctrines seem to have disappeared. Federalism is a case in point. After decades of extolling state governments as the best laboratory for new ideas, Republicans in Washington have been resisting state experimentation in areas ranging from pollution control to antispam legislation to prescription drugs.

Late-20th-century Republicanism was an uneasy alliance of social conservatives ? who were comfortable with government intervention in citizens' lives when it came to morality issues ? and libertarians who wanted as little interference as possible. That balancing act ended on 9/11. Since then, the Justice Department has enlarged the intrusive powers of government by, among other things, authorizing "sneak and peek" searches of private homes and suspending traditional civil liberties for certain defendants. The story of the military chaplain who was arrested ? apparently mistakenly ? as a suspected terrorist and then wound up being publicly humiliated with a public vetting of his sex life seems like a summary of a libertarian's worst fears of an overreaching federal government.

The Republicans' newly acquired activism, however, has very clear limits. The modern party's key allegiance is to corporate America, and its tolerance for intrusive federal government ends when big business is involved. If there is a consistent center to the domestic philosophy of the current administration, it is the idea that business is best left alone. The White House and Congress have chipped away at environmental protections that interfere with business interests on everything from clean air to use of federal lands. The administration is determined to deliver on corporate America's goal of cutting overtime pay for white-collar workers. At the same time, it has been tepid in asserting greater federal vigilance over the developing scandal of workplace safety.

Republicans have always enjoyed their reputation as the champions of business. The difference now is that they no longer couple their business-friendly attitudes with tight-fistedness. Discretionary spending has jumped 27 percent in the last two years; budget hawks complain Congressional pork is up more than 40 percent. Some of that money has gone to buy the allegiance of wavering party members in the closely divided House and Senate, but much of it is directly tied to the demands of big business. Agriculture subsidies to corporate farms have swollen to new heights, while energy policy has been reduced to a miserable grab bag of special benefits for the oil, gas and coal companies. The last Bush energy bill, which passed the House but died in the Senate, seems likely to be remembered most for the now-famous subsidy for an energy-efficient Hooters restaurant in Louisiana.

The two halves of Republican policy no longer fit together. A political majority that believes in big government for people, and little or no government for corporations, has produced an unsustainable fiscal policy that combines spending on social programs with pork and tax cuts for the rich. Massive budget deficits have been the inevitable result. Something similar happened in the Reagan administration. But unlike Ronald Reagan, Mr. Bush has given no hint of a midcourse adjustment to repair revenue flow. In fact, his Congressional leaders talk of still more tax cuts next year to extend the $1.7 trillion already enacted. That would compound deficits, which could reach $5 trillion in the decade.

This, it appears, is what compassionate conservatism really means. The conservative part is a stern and sometimes intrusive government to regulate the citizenry, but with a hands-off attitude toward business. The compassionate end involves some large federal programs combined with unending sympathy for the demands of special interests. If only it all added up.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,390
29
91
This, it appears, is what compassionate conservatism really means. The conservative part is a stern and sometimes intrusive government to regulate the citizenry, but with a hands-off attitude toward business. The compassionate end involves some large federal programs combined with unending sympathy for the demands of special interests. If only it all added up.

Eh, wah!
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: Genesys
Originally posted by: dahunan
Why is Kenneth Lay still a free man?

has he even undergone trial yet?


That's my point ;) SURE seems to be draggin on and on and on....


Lay last week asked the judge to force SEC regulators to either live without the 870 pages or accept them on his terms. Lay said the documents are personal papers and he can withhold them asserting his rights and will divulge them only if he's granted immunity from the SEC using them against him.

The SEC argues the pages are corporate documents and a corporation has no right against self incrimination. The regulators say they should be able to use the information against Lay.

Lay's attorneys could not be reached for a comment late Monday.

But Lay 's Washington, D.C.-based lawyers, Earl Silbert and Deborah Meshulam, said in a filing last week that it is unfair for the SEC to make Lay produce personal documents "at his own peril."
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/enron/2183584

 

Genesys

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2003
1,536
0
0
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: Genesys
Originally posted by: dahunan
Why is Kenneth Lay still a free man?

has he even undergone trial yet?


That's my point ;) SURE seems to be draggin on and on and on....


Lay last week asked the judge to force SEC regulators to either live without the 870 pages or accept them on his terms. Lay said the documents are personal papers and he can withhold them asserting his rights and will divulge them only if he's granted immunity from the SEC using them against him.

The SEC argues the pages are corporate documents and a corporation has no right against self incrimination. The regulators say they should be able to use the information against Lay.

Lay's attorneys could not be reached for a comment late Monday.

But Lay 's Washington, D.C.-based lawyers, Earl Silbert and Deborah Meshulam, said in a filing last week that it is unfair for the SEC to make Lay produce personal documents "at his own peril."
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/enron/2183584

have patience, the bastard will be tried [and hopefully hung too]
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
I hope so... White Collar criminals think they aren't like those criminals who use a gun or knife..etc. NO.. they are WORSE.. The collapse of Enron hurt 1000's of American Middle Class families
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: dahunan
I hope so... White Collar criminals think they aren't like those criminals who use a gun or knife..etc. NO.. they are WORSE.. The collapse of Enron hurt 1000's of American Middle Class families

But they aren't violent criminals??? What's your point? Steal enough money and it is a violent crime?
rolleye.gif
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
The whole republican philosophy is a lie. All they can hope for, in a democracy, is to give just enough benefit to the majority while benefiting thier real consitutants (the uber rich) as much as possible. Thats what you see by ruineness debt to benefit wealthy contractors for thier wares and t-bill holders, paltry middle class tax cuts and privitization of medicare benefit, while slashing capital gains, estate and top earners rates. Good thing though, with majority of military and law enforcement believing in the republican lie they may not have to deal with democracy any more and will simply move tward totalitarian dictatorship which is the governement type they support abroad in most all cases.
 

KK

Lifer
Jan 2, 2001
15,903
4
81
Originally posted by: Zebo
The whole republican philosophy is a lie. All they can hope for, in a democracy, is to give just enough benefit to the majority while benefiting thier real consitutants (the uber rich) as much as possible. Thats what you see by ruineness debt to benefit wealthy contractors for thier wares and t-bill holders, paltry middle class tax cuts and privitization of medicare benefit, while slashing capital gains, estate and top earners rates. Good thing though, with majority of military and law enforcement believing in the republican lie they may not have to deal with democracy any more and will simply move tward totalitarian dictatorship which is the governement type they support abroad in most all cases.

I thought we lived in a republic? Someone clear this up for me.

KK
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: KK
Originally posted by: Zebo
The whole republican philosophy is a lie. All they can hope for, in a democracy, is to give just enough benefit to the majority while benefiting thier real consitutants (the uber rich) as much as possible. Thats what you see by ruineness debt to benefit wealthy contractors for thier wares and t-bill holders, paltry middle class tax cuts and privitization of medicare benefit, while slashing capital gains, estate and top earners rates. Good thing though, with majority of military and law enforcement believing in the republican lie they may not have to deal with democracy any more and will simply move tward totalitarian dictatorship which is the governement type they support abroad in most all cases.

I thought we lived in a republic? Someone clear this up for me.

KK

Good god not this silly argument again. I know conservatives are so hostile to democracy that they seek to deny its very name but every branch of our government derives its power from majority rule or approval..for now. If you wish to quibble over definitions we have an indirect democracy rather than a direct one.

 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,860
6,396
126
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: dahunan
I hope so... White Collar criminals think they aren't like those criminals who use a gun or knife..etc. NO.. they are WORSE.. The collapse of Enron hurt 1000's of American Middle Class families

But they aren't violent criminals??? What's your point? Steal enough money and it is a violent crime?
rolleye.gif

I think he explains it quite well. Look at Parmalat, they have been stealing for over 10 years and what was thought to be a solid investment 2 weeks ago turns out to be a virtual empty shell. This and Enron are insidious, no one knows what's happening until it's beyond too late.

Reminds me of the words of a great poet of our time:

"Steal a little they'll throw you in jail
Steal a lot and they'll make you King"
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Let's all get to the Government Train Wreck - Coming soon to a Country near you !
(From the New York Times - Editorial)

The Republican Party has been in charge of the national agenda for almost three years now ? Democratic majorities in Congress don't crimp George W. Bush's style the way they did for his father or Ronald Reagan when they were in office. We have thus had an unobstructed view of what the 21st-century version of the party looks like. It's very clear this is not the father's G.O.P.

The most striking thing about the new Republicanism is the way it embraces big government. The Bush administration has presided over a $400 billion expansion of Medicare entitlements. The party that once campaigned to abolish the Department of Education has produced an education plan that involves unprecedented federal involvement in local public schools. There is talk from the White House about a grandiose new moon shot. Budgetary watchdogs like the Heritage Foundation echo the Republican Senator John McCain's complaint about "drunken sailor" spending.

All this has left Democrats spluttering over their own hijacked agenda while old-style Republican conservatives despair. "We have come loose from our moorings," Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska concluded as Congress left Washington at the end of the year. It was probably inevitable that a big central government would look a whole lot better to Republicans when they got control of it. And since this page tends to favor activist government, we have little reason to complain when the Bush administration agrees.

What has happened to the Republicans does not seem to reflect an actual shift in ideology; indeed, the philosophic center of this administration is hard to pin down. Yet whatever the reason, some formerly reliably Republican doctrines seem to have disappeared. Federalism is a case in point. After decades of extolling state governments as the best laboratory for new ideas, Republicans in Washington have been resisting state experimentation in areas ranging from pollution control to antispam legislation to prescription drugs.

Late-20th-century Republicanism was an uneasy alliance of social conservatives ? who were comfortable with government intervention in citizens' lives when it came to morality issues ? and libertarians who wanted as little interference as possible. That balancing act ended on 9/11. Since then, the Justice Department has enlarged the intrusive powers of government by, among other things, authorizing "sneak and peek" searches of private homes and suspending traditional civil liberties for certain defendants. The story of the military chaplain who was arrested ? apparently mistakenly ? as a suspected terrorist and then wound up being publicly humiliated with a public vetting of his sex life seems like a summary of a libertarian's worst fears of an overreaching federal government.

The Republicans' newly acquired activism, however, has very clear limits. The modern party's key allegiance is to corporate America, and its tolerance for intrusive federal government ends when big business is involved. If there is a consistent center to the domestic philosophy of the current administration, it is the idea that business is best left alone. The White House and Congress have chipped away at environmental protections that interfere with business interests on everything from clean air to use of federal lands. The administration is determined to deliver on corporate America's goal of cutting overtime pay for white-collar workers. At the same time, it has been tepid in asserting greater federal vigilance over the developing scandal of workplace safety.

Republicans have always enjoyed their reputation as the champions of business. The difference now is that they no longer couple their business-friendly attitudes with tight-fistedness. Discretionary spending has jumped 27 percent in the last two years; budget hawks complain Congressional pork is up more than 40 percent. Some of that money has gone to buy the allegiance of wavering party members in the closely divided House and Senate, but much of it is directly tied to the demands of big business. Agriculture subsidies to corporate farms have swollen to new heights, while energy policy has been reduced to a miserable grab bag of special benefits for the oil, gas and coal companies. The last Bush energy bill, which passed the House but died in the Senate, seems likely to be remembered most for the now-famous subsidy for an energy-efficient Hooters restaurant in Louisiana.

The two halves of Republican policy no longer fit together. A political majority that believes in big government for people, and little or no government for corporations, has produced an unsustainable fiscal policy that combines spending on social programs with pork and tax cuts for the rich. Massive budget deficits have been the inevitable result. Something similar happened in the Reagan administration. But unlike Ronald Reagan, Mr. Bush has given no hint of a midcourse adjustment to repair revenue flow. In fact, his Congressional leaders talk of still more tax cuts next year to extend the $1.7 trillion already enacted. That would compound deficits, which could reach $5 trillion in the decade.

This, it appears, is what compassionate conservatism really means. The conservative part is a stern and sometimes intrusive government to regulate the citizenry, but with a hands-off attitude toward business. The compassionate end involves some large federal programs combined with unending sympathy for the demands of special interests. If only it all added up.
Sounds right on target to me. One can only hope that more and more true conservatives continue to wake up to what has happened to the Republican party. Sooner or later, something has to give. Perhaps centrist Democrats can join with conservative Republicans, leaving the Republican party to the business whores and neo-fascists.


Edit: typo
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Sounds right on target to me. One can only hope that more and more true conservatives continue to wake up to what has happened to the Republican party. Sooner or later, something has to give. Perhaps centrist Democrats can join with conservative Republicans, leaving the Republican party to the business whores and neo-facists.

That sure will thin down the herd here in AT P&N.

 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
As I've said before, the Bushies and their congressional allies aren't conservatives in any modern sense of the word. They're radical reactionaries, more akin to Republicans of the McKinley Era than anything else. It's not just a hands off attitude towards business, it's a "What can we do for you today, gentlemen? we have a special on logging and air pollution this week..." kind of attitude.

Last time I checked, Conservatives actually conserve, maintain the status quo and our national resources for future generation. Conservatives are also fiscally conservative. The Republican conservatives of my youth would be utterly appalled by the current state of the budget- Eisenhower, Goldwater, and all the rest would be vociferously denouncing these looters as traitors of the worst sort, crass and greedy economic opportunists at best.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
As I've said before, the Bushies and their congressional allies aren't conservatives in any modern sense of the word. They're radical reactionaries, more akin to Republicans of the McKinley Era than anything else. It's not just a hands off attitude towards business, it's a "What can we do for you today, gentlemen? we have a special on logging and air pollution this week..." kind of attitude.

Last time I checked, Conservatives actually conserve, maintain the status quo and our national resources for future generation. Conservatives are also fiscally conservative. The Republican conservatives of my youth would be utterly appalled by the current state of the budget- Eisenhower, Goldwater, and all the rest would be vociferously denouncing these looters as traitors of the worst sort, crass and greedy economic opportunists at best.
And they would be right. IMHO, of course.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Or we could just dismantle the whole welfare system and see where it takes us. No benefit for ANYONE. Each man for himself.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: Dari
Or we could just dismantle the whole welfare system and see where it takes us. No benefit for ANYONE. Each man for himself.
Plenty of third-world hell-holes have already tried it. Not sure why we'd want to repeat the experiment.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
A Great Nation always takes care of it's less fortunate citizens to give them the cahnce and means to improve thier lot - it's been like thay since time began.

A self serving greedy government grabs what it can for itself and those in charge of the situation on the backs of the working class while rewarding those privledged few who contributed to the deception - so it was with the rise and fall of Rome, France, and many other failed civilizations since time began - and the Republican Party is running down that path again.

Now if we pause to reflect for a moment we can all remember how the Republican Party made big issues out of the misdeeds of Clinton, made a splash over the paltry graft that Trafficant was caught in and sent to prison for, but has effectively prevented any action against Ken Lay, has allowed Tom DeLay to stomp just about anything that he wants to in order to manipulate the Government of this country to his liking, and has kept as much out of the press as they can about the 'Government For Sale' tactics of Ryan in Illinois (Under criminal intitement) and
Stevens in Alaska (Logging and ecology) and the Attempt to intimidate and bribe members of Congerss for voting manipuation indicates to me that we are in the midst of the most corrupt Administration and Control of politics that our nation has ever seen.
There is so much more that I could post - Facts, by the way, but it would take too much time, and almost be counterproductive just because of the volume of data.

Be afraid - be ashamed.

 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
Capt:

Does this mean Bush has presided over the destruction of the Republican Party? :) I certainly don't recognize his brand of conservatism. Hegel is close. But they haven't come loose from their moorings they've sunk the ship!

My son, the Republican, says Bush is right to take the party in this direction because in the new world order sheer power matters most. Power is about winning regardless of the cost to values. Sort of a "the ends justify the means" approach.

This is actually a very savvy-albeit cynical-approach by the Republicans. They will control the Presidency and Congress for at least 4 more years with this approach. The Democrats are in such disarray I do not believe they have much chance to turn the ball game around.

For myself, I will vote for anyone not named Bush. :)

-Robert
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

"so it was with the rise and fall of Rome, France, and many other failed civilizations since time began - and the Republican Party is running down that path again. Be afraid - be ashamed."

Ah, those that are not brainwashed grows. As a very well known Professor told me "Visionaries in a Clouded World."


 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81
A political majority that believes in big government for people, and little or no government for corporations, has produced an unsustainable fiscal policy that combines spending on social programs with pork and tax cuts for the rich. Massive budget deficits have been the inevitable result. Something similar happened in the Reagan administration.

This is pershaps the best description yet. I wonder what the US will look like after 5 more years of Bush rule?
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
The way I see it it that those who now comprise the alledged 'Leadership' of the Republican Party are betting the farm that they can complete the power grab and write enough new laws to excuse themselves for any wrong doing before the citizens can gather enough opposing voters to stop them. The are engaged upon using 'Fear' as a Psylogical Weapon upon those who are paranoid enough to belive thier rhetoric. Witness the useage of the insecure American male ego to fear the loss of his job 'IF' enough is not done to support Big Buisness. This Administration is trying to push through even more 'Special Deals' to the Corporate Elite - those who own the business that hire the worker that they can get the most out of for the least wage and compensation that they can. Millions in fundings to the Republicans to pass laws that only benifit thier companies and themselves, while using the threat of 'Outsourcing' or going 'Offshore' to placate those who would be stuck without an option of employment. How many jobs have been lost now ? More in their watch than an any other time in our history ? Who got the contracts ? Who gets to skate free of criminal prosecution for fraud ? Looks like a disaster is building up for our nation. Do you think that any of those who are doing this damage to our country will have to answer up for thier actions ? Looks like Standard Procedure Republican Politics to me.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
The way I see it it that those who now comprise the alledged 'Leadership' of the Republican Party are betting the farm that they can complete the power grab and write enough new laws to excuse themselves for any wrong doing before the citizens can gather enough opposing voters to stop them. The are engaged upon using 'Fear' as a Psylogical Weapon upon those who are paranoid enough to belive thier rhetoric. Witness the useage of the insecure American male ego to fear the loss of his job 'IF' enough is not done to support Big Buisness. This Administration is trying to push through even more 'Special Deals' to the Corporate Elite - those who own the business that hire the worker that they can get the most out of for the least wage and compensation that they can. Millions in fundings to the Republicans to pass laws that only benifit thier companies and themselves, while using the threat of 'Outsourcing' or going 'Offshore' to placate those who would be stuck without an option of employment. How many jobs have been lost now ? More in their watch than an any other time in our history ? Who got the contracts ? Who gets to skate free of criminal prosecution for fraud ? Looks like a disaster is building up for our nation. Do you think that any of those who are doing this damage to our country will have to answer up for thier actions ? Looks like Standard Procedure Republican Politics to me.

Well summed up, with all his Rhetoric this is what CAD loves best about the Republican Regime. But don't forget with his and their Voodoo Math they say that more jobs have been "created" than all time.
rolleye.gif
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Captain nice post: IMO Most modern republians can only be defined as traitors to the american way of life and the consitution. Heres why, They support international bodies like GATT who's rule superceeds the consititution and the democratic will of the people of the USA for it's corporate benefactors. They love to trade with third world dictatorships, even our mortal enemies, communists like china. Not only do they help these regimes stay in power they enable them with funds and technology to continue thier oppression of thier peoples. From South America to the Asia this is our modus operandi. They don't object to American corps moving headqauaters to banking havens to aviod taxes like a small business or ordinary american has to pay even though they reap the most benefit from these taxes either in national policy or welfare for thier wares. And finally they don't believe in the bill of rights unless it applies to them or Rush Limbaugh. Just look how they love manditory minimums for petty drug offenders which can only be defined as "Cruel". Suspension of habeus corpus for anyone the feds say is a terrorist w/o judical review. And like all militants don't want anyone other than them to be armed..see NRA's stance on "crimminals" second amendment right or lack thereof.