The NBA sure has changed

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CptObvious

Platinum Member
Mar 5, 2004
2,501
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There aren't as many dominant post-up centers/PFs like Shaq, Olajuwon, Ewing, Malone anymore. Maybe Howard. Now most of the best PFs/centers are jump shooters (Durant, Duncan, Nowitzki, Garnett, Love).
 
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pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
3,510
6
0
CptObvious said:
There aren't as many dominant post-up centers/PFs like Shaq, Olajuwon, Ewing, Malone anymore. Maybe Howard. Now most of the best PFs/centers are jump shooters (Durant, Duncan, Nowitzki, Garnett, Love).
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I think this might have to do with the fact that most NBA players are taller and more athletic and stronger nowadays. A Shaq, as good as he was in his prime, would have been blocked every time he went to the hoop by a Dwight Howard or Serge Ibaka. Being big and fat and stronger than everybody else just isn't the case anymore. As a result, players that play the 4 or 5 are forced to step back and start shooting jumpshots.

I do miss the 90s Knicks. Van Gundy hanging off some big fucker's ankle.

Statues%2004_Man%20and%20Kids.jpg


Marv Albert beating up prostitutes. Mason shooting free throws with one hand. Ewing with his prosthetic knees.

John Starks, who looked like Kid from Kid N' Play minus the flat top.
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It was a great era of basketball.
 
Deeko

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
I don't think the players are necessarily soft. I am no LeBron fan, but come on, you can't call him soft. He's one of the most physical players out there. He guarded Kevin Garnett in the last series, who is not exactly soft himself. Does he look whiny when he doesn't get fouls? Sure...but he doesn't play soft.
 
D

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Deeko said:
I don't think the players are necessarily soft. I am no LeBron fan, but come on, you can't call him soft. He's one of the most physical players out there. He guarded Kevin Garnett in the last series, who is not exactly soft himself. Does he look whiny when he doesn't get fouls? Sure...but he doesn't play soft.
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Relatively speaking, he's soft.
 
D

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Deeko said:
Why do you say that?
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Lebron sees himself as a victim/underdog. When he's not crying to refs he's flailing. He would not have stood a chance in the 1990s or '80s. Knicks probably would've called him a big bitch, no different from Kukoc.
 
Deeko

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
Dari said:
Lebron sees himself as a victim/underdog. When he's not crying to refs he's flailing. He would not have stood a chance in the 1990s or '80s. Knicks probably would've called him a big bitch, no different from Kukoc.
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They can call him that if they want, but then he will ram his freakishly large and athletic body down their throats on the way to the basket*. You can call his attitude soft if you want, but his play style most certainly is not.

*Note, I am a Knicks fan.

edit: weren't you complaining about people shooting rather than playing inside? You aren't going to find many players more willing (or able) to drive to the basket than LeBron....
 
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D

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
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Deeko said:
They can call him that if they want, but then he will ram his freakishly large and athletic body down their throats on the way to the basket*. You can call his attitude soft if you want, but his play style most certainly is not.

*Note, I am a Knicks fan.

edit: weren't you complaining about people shooting rather than playing inside? You aren't going to find many players more willing (or able) to drive to the basket than LeBron....
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He shoots from deep outside as well. But, overall, I just don't like his attitude. He reeks of victimhood. He does not appear to have any leadership qualities. He's no Jordan.
 
Deeko

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
MixMasterTang said:
"We know we have to have more production for sure," James said. "We're going to have to have more guys in there to give me and D-Wade a rest."

I don't see Durant asking to rest on the bench.
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First off, I'm sure a reported asked him about that, I doubt he brought it up out of the blue. Secondly, LeBron played 46 minutes in that game, Wade 42, Battier 42. Its one thing for your star to play a lot, but when your top 5 guys played an average of 39.8 minutes (vs 33.8 for okc), directly following a 7 game series where you ran a 6 man rotation, I'd say its an apt call to say the bench needs to play more if you want to sustain another lengthy series.

And either way, like I said earlier, you can whine about the things he says in press conferences if you want, but on the court, he is not a soft player. Far, far from it.
 
Muse

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,875
10,222
136
Deeko said:
I don't think the players are necessarily soft. I am no LeBron fan, but come on, you can't call him soft. He's one of the most physical players out there. He guarded Kevin Garnett in the last series, who is not exactly soft himself. Does he look whiny when he doesn't get fouls? Sure...but he doesn't play soft.
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The present players aren't soft, who are you kidding. You just try getting on the court with Lebron and see who's soft! D:

IMO, Lebron did foul Westbrook on that short shot with about 4 seconds left in game 2 of the finals last night. The refs should have called that for two free throws. He fouled him twice.

IMO, the NBA should be far more stringent on what's allowed in bumping and hand checking and charges. I always considered Shaq as a big bruising bully. There should be far more emphasis on skills, agility, ball handling, shooting skills, far less on muscling people around offensively or defensively. That's inevitable in a lot of ways in American football, but it shouldn't be in basketball.
 
notposting

notposting

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2005
3,498
33
91
That Wade clip was a good example. Calls for stars based on nothing (or I dunno, negative nothing). I remember Lebron's "breakout" game against the Pistons several years ago when he had something like 25 straight points for the Cavs. These were the same Pistons who torched the Lakers and came a Sheed brain-fart away from 2 championships. By the end, they were basically doing a bullfighter ole! as Lebron drove the lane because the refs would call anyone getting within a few feet of him a foul. Well shit, no wonder the stars do so good. They can't get defended, and they can do what they want on D without getting called.

Officiating in general blows nowadays. Maybe it's because there is more exposure of it nationwide, but I don't think that's the reason. Baseball, football, basketball, hockey. BOXING lol. Between sheer ineptitude and the "fix is in" conspiracies, I barely watch any sports nowadays.

edit: and don't say the stars have always had that treatment...I remember Jordan doing it with John Starks sharing his underwear he was so close and it still didn't matter. Not to mention Magic, Bird, hell the old centers, Ewing, Hakeem getting defended like crazy.
 
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sactoking

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,648
2,924
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1) High school draftees. It became more important to put up huge numbers and dunks in high school to get drafted that it was to actually develop skills. This led to...
2) The "me first" era. Allen Iverson, Vince Carter, Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, Tracy Mcgrady, and their ilk were the "superstars" of the late '90s and early '00s. The problem is that not only were they all "me first" scorers but they were all so self-centered that they made everyone around them worse. The game stagnated into a ball hog going one-on-one every trip down the court while 8 other guys just stood around picking their butts. It's getting better but guys like Carmelo still have this disease. This led to...
3) The influx of the Euro "sharpshooter". In order to complement the ball hog "superstars" general managers realized that they needed two or three players who could shoot lights out. The game was really starting to go global and all sorts of reports were coming in from Europe about guys who were 12' tall and could shoot 500% from 3-point land. This, along with the realization that college had few legit players and most high school players would be busts (see #1), led to GMs using flyer picks on Euro stars. When they finally came to the US most of them were great shooters. The problem was shooting was pretty mush all they could do. They were soft, couldn't play defense, couldn't dribble, and didn't contribute in any other meaningful way. But they were tall and they could shoot. American kids started realizing that they needed to become shooters to compete, especially the taller kids. Roster spots were going to untalented tall shooters ("You can't teach size") over more skilled, smaller American kids who were a dime a dozen. The resultant rule changes meant that a 6'9" or 6'11" kid wasn't going to bulk up and play power forward or center; they'd be at a disadvantage against the 6'11" Euro shooter. So they all went skinny and now we have teams that play a 6'9" small forward and 6'7" center.
 
kevman

kevman

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2001
3,548
1
81
Atomic Playboy said:
I always thought Xavier McDaniel played for the Celtics. So I had to look it up. Apparently he spent a year with New York and then played with the Celtics for 3. Always struck me as a fun, high energy sort of guy.
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he was the man, i am convinced that if he had stayed in ny the knicks would have beaten the jordan bulls. thanks to dave checketts for let the celtics steal him.
 
sactoking

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,648
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Xavier McDaniel also was featured in an episode of Married... With Children, so he had that going for him too.
 
AznAnarchy99

AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,695
117
106
pelov said:
I think this might have to do with the fact that most NBA players are taller and more athletic and stronger nowadays. A Shaq, as good as he was in his prime, would have been blocked every time he went to the hoop by a Dwight Howard or Serge Ibaka. Being big and fat and stronger than everybody else just isn't the case anymore. As a result, players that play the 4 or 5 are forced to step back and start shooting jumpshots.
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Ummm what? Soo you're saying you'd take Howard or ibaka over Shaq? Lmao. I don't think you realize how dominant a big man Shaq was.
 
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