The Myth of a Better Deal

[Genx87]

https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/08/10/the-myth-of-a-better-deal-iran-nuke-wmds-iraq/

Really great piece on why we shouldnt believe a policy that has never been used before will work. It starts off discussing the Iranian deal which opponents dont have a realistic alternative. But can be applied to any policy where we are told the sky is falling if it isnt passed, or will magically fix problems.

 

[Moonbeam]

Can't find what he has to say

 

[BonzaiDuck]

That's a good article.

Consider me "conceited," "elitist," or add "eccentric" and any other mild epithet.

I began to notice ten years ago that pundits, experts and commentators would suddenly voice the basics of a conclusion I'd made 5 years earlier.

I suppose I see this as a sign of human progress.

 

[JSt0rm]

The alternative is war and plenty of companies in the military industrial complex want to see that happen. This move would fix a looming profit center from happening. They will fight it.

 

[fskimospy]

https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/08/10/the-myth-of-a-better-deal-iran-nuke-wmds-iraq/

Really great piece on why we shouldnt believe a policy that has never been used before will work. It starts off discussing the Iranian deal which opponents dont have a realistic alternative. But can be applied to any policy where we are told the sky is falling if it isnt passed, or will magically fix problems.

It's an easy way to criticize something while not offering an alternative.

Want to oppose the Iran deal but have no ideas of your own? Ask for a better deal! Nobody can be against a better deal, right?

 

[hal2kilo]

The alternative is war and plenty of companies in the military industrial complex want to see that happen. This move would fix a looming profit center from happening. They will fight it.

Need to fly that wonderfully expensive POS F35. Then they can go back to congress to get more money to make it really work.

 

[Jaskalas]

I agree there is no better deal.
You either accept Obama's peace deal, or you march our troops into Iran.

 

[fskimospy]

I agree there is no better deal.
You either accept Obama's peace deal, or you march our troops into Iran.

But you seem to support marching our troops into iran.

That has huge,huge costs. Why is that better?

 

[Genx87]

It's an easy way to criticize something while not offering an alternative.

Want to oppose the Iran deal but have no ideas of your own? Ask for a better deal! Nobody can be against a better deal, right?

Yup. From what I can tell the only deal people who oppose this ultimately is to bomb Iran or worse invade it. How in the hell is that a better deal?

 

[Moonbeam]

Look! I am afraid Iran is going to nuke me in my sleep. I don't want a deal. I want all of you to go to war for me and destroy Iran so I can sleep in peace. I really don't care how many of you die so long as it isn't me. Call me a scumbag craven coward, but I don't care. I can easily live without pride.

 

[Phynaz]

The alternative is war and plenty of companies in the military industrial complex want to see that happen. This move would fix a looming profit center from happening. They will fight it.

The economy could use a good war.

 

[JSt0rm]

The economy could use a good war.

please smiley face your sarcasm/jokes.

 

[ivwshane]

The economy could use a good war.

We've been at war for over a decade, what about the economy do you think will change?

 

[JSt0rm]

We've been at war for over a decade, what about the economy do you think will change?

He wants a warhammer 40k eternal war economy because...

 

[Jhhnn]

It's an easy way to criticize something while not offering an alternative.

Want to oppose the Iran deal but have no ideas of your own? Ask for a better deal! Nobody can be against a better deal, right?

None of this is really about Iran but rather domestic politics, about denying Obama as many accomplishments as possible & maintaining a long standing foreign boogeyman.

Where would the right wing be if we had no foreign "enemies"?

They'd be stuck talking about what we need to do to reverse the results of 35 years of trickle down economics, stronger financial reform, ending the war on drugs, reducing our outrageous prison population, stuff like that. Can't have that. They like to keep it just the way it is, nicely fucked up in a way that advantages the financial elite.

 

[Atreus21]

It's an easy way to criticize something while not offering an alternative.

How about the status quo?

 

[fskimospy]

How about the status quo?

Not possible.

 

[Atreus21]

Not possible.

Why not?

And incidentally, the article talks about the uselessness of sanctions. Yet what is Iran threatened with if it fails in holding up its end of the treaty?

 

[ivwshane]

How about the status quo?

The status quo requires all of our allies to participate in sanctions, they no longer wish to do that. So now what?

 

[JSt0rm]

How about the status quo?

Are you really this uneducated about the subject?

 

[Atreus21]

Are you really this uneducated about the subject?

Could be. It was not a rhetorical question. I'm going by what I've heard, which may not be the whole story.

 

[Atreus21]

The status quo requires all of our allies to participate in sanctions, they no longer wish to do that. So now what?

Yet we expect them to all participate in sanctions if and when Iran fails in its treaty obligations?

 

[fskimospy]

Why not?

And incidentally, the article talks about the uselessness of sanctions. Yet what is Iran threatened with if it fails in holding up its end of the treaty?

If the US doesn't negotiate in good faith the sanctions will be abandoned.

 

[JSt0rm]

Could be. It was not a rhetorical question. I'm going by what I've heard, which may not be the whole story.

Fair enough. The point was to get iran to the table to talk. They came to the table and a solution was hammered out. At this point if we dont move forward in good faith other countries will see that we never had good faith for negotiations and remove the sanctions on their own. Part of this deal IS the sanctions coming back IF iran fails any of the numerous key things in the package.

 

[ivwshane]

Yet we expect them to all participate in sanctions if and when Iran fails in its treaty obligations?

Yes because that's what everyone agreed to.