"The Mojave Experiment" A.K.A. "Windows 7"

[nerp]

Just a fragile ego, guys. Let him have the last ludicrous word and it should go away.

 

[clarkey01]

Originally posted by: Crusty

Originally posted by: Griffinhart

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID

whats the difference between a hack and a port? nothing.

its all software changes that would allow something made in one to work on the other.

No, not really. A port is a modification or rewrite of something to have the same functionality. A hack just gets something to kinda sorta work. In this case, a port would be for DX10 effects to work under XP using hardware acceleration. The existing Hack only allows for some DX10 effects but rendered using software with no hardware acceleration. A pretty big difference.

That's a HUGE difference, considering the point of DX10 is to provide hardware acceleration for GFX operations.

Everything else is right though

QFT

 

[JACKDRUID]

Originally posted by: Griffinhart

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID

facts:

ports are not always complete.
some hacks completely work.

call it a port or a hack or anything you like, but in the end, its just a software change/modification.

Contrary to popular opinion, grasping at straws will not increase your chances of finding that needle in the haystack.

Facts:

Ports are not always complete, but they do provide the major functionality. The DX10 hack in no way provides the major features of DX10 in that most effects are not there and there is no hardware acceleration which is the whole point of DX10 hardware.

Some hacks do completely work, but the DX10 hack barely works and the stuff that does has terrible performance.

yet some hacks work, and at the same time offer better performance.

its just a software change, nothing more, nothing less.


I suppose ppl in OS forum do not know software..

sad. i pity you all.

edit:

hack on wiki

"Hack has several meanings in the technology and computer science fields. It may refer to a clever or quick fix to a computer program problem, or to a clumsy or inelegant solution to a problem. The term is also used to refer to a modification of a program or device to give the user access to features that were otherwise unavailable, such as DIY circuit bending"

"In the 2000s, a "hack" refers to a clever, quick fix to a computer program problem, and a hacker is a person who does this. The term was first used by US university computing center staff in the mid-1960s. The context determined whether the complimentary or derogatory meanings were implied. Phrases such as "ugly hack" or "quick hack" generally referred to the latter meaning; phrases such as "cool hack" or "neat hack", to the former. In modern computer programming, a "hack" can refer to a solution or method which functions correctly but which is "ugly" in its concept, which works outside the accepted structures and norms of the environment, or which is not easily extendable or maintainable (see kludge). The jargon used by hackers is called Hackish (see the Jargon file). This should not be confused with "1337" or "leetspeak."

In a similar vein, a "hack" may refer to works outside of computer programming. For example, a math hack means a clever solution to a mathematical problem. The GNU General Public License has been described as[who?] a copyright hack because it cleverly uses the copyright laws for a purpose the lawmakers did not foresee. All of these uses now also seem to be spreading beyond MIT as well.

The term has since acquired an additional and now more common meaning, since approximately the 1980s; this more modern definition was initially associated with crackers. This growing use of the term "hack" is to refer to a program that (sometimes illegally) modifies another program, often a computer game, giving the user access to features otherwise inaccessible to them. As an example of this use, for Palm OS users (until the 4th iteration of this operating system), a "hack" refers to an extension of the operating system which provides additional functionality. The general media also uses this term to describe the act of illegally breaking into a computer, but this meaning is disputed.

The term is additionally used by electronics hobbyists to refer to simple modifications to electronic hardware such as a graphing calculators, video game consoles, electronic musical keyboards or other device (see CueCat for a notorious example) to expose or add functionality to a device that was unintended for use by end users by the company who created it. A number of techno musicians have modified 1980s-era Casio SK-1 sampling keyboards to create unusual sounds by doing circuit bending: connecting wires to different leads of the integrated circuit chips. The results of these DIY experiments range from opening up previously inaccessible features that were part of the chip design to producing the strange, disharmonic digital tones that became part of the techno music style.


A DIY musician probes the circuit board of a synthesizer for "bends" using a jeweler's screwdriver and alligator clipsCompanies take different attitudes towards such practices, ranging from open acceptance (such as Texas Instruments for its graphing calculators and Lego for its Lego Mindstorms robotics gear) to outright hostility (such as Microsoft's attempts to lock out Xbox hackers or the DRM routines on Blu-ray Disc players designed to sabotage compromised players).
"

 

[Aberforth]

Jackdruid, XP is almost 10 years old (97 NT/2000 code base) patched with 1800+ hotfixes. We need a new OS, vista is good- it performs better, it's secure, looks good and is more future proof.

 

[Crusty]

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID

Originally posted by: Griffinhart

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID

facts:

ports are not always complete.
some hacks completely work.

call it a port or a hack or anything you like, but in the end, its just a software change/modification.

Contrary to popular opinion, grasping at straws will not increase your chances of finding that needle in the haystack.

Facts:

Ports are not always complete, but they do provide the major functionality. The DX10 hack in no way provides the major features of DX10 in that most effects are not there and there is no hardware acceleration which is the whole point of DX10 hardware.

Some hacks do completely work, but the DX10 hack barely works and the stuff that does has terrible performance.

yet some hacks work, and at the same time offer better performance.

its just a software change, nothing more, nothing less.


I suppose ppl in OS forum do not know software..

sad. i pity you all.

edit:

hack on wiki

"Hack has several meanings in the technology and computer science fields. It may refer to a clever or quick fix to a computer program problem, or to a clumsy or inelegant solution to a problem. The term is also used to refer to a modification of a program or device to give the user access to features that were otherwise unavailable, such as DIY circuit bending"

"In the 2000s, a "hack" refers to a clever, quick fix to a computer program problem, and a hacker is a person who does this. The term was first used by US university computing center staff in the mid-1960s. The context determined whether the complimentary or derogatory meanings were implied. Phrases such as "ugly hack" or "quick hack" generally referred to the latter meaning; phrases such as "cool hack" or "neat hack", to the former. In modern computer programming, a "hack" can refer to a solution or method which functions correctly but which is "ugly" in its concept, which works outside the accepted structures and norms of the environment, or which is not easily extendable or maintainable (see kludge). The jargon used by hackers is called Hackish (see the Jargon file). This should not be confused with "1337" or "leetspeak."

In a similar vein, a "hack" may refer to works outside of computer programming. For example, a math hack means a clever solution to a mathematical problem. The GNU General Public License has been described as[who?] a copyright hack because it cleverly uses the copyright laws for a purpose the lawmakers did not foresee. All of these uses now also seem to be spreading beyond MIT as well.

The term has since acquired an additional and now more common meaning, since approximately the 1980s; this more modern definition was initially associated with crackers. This growing use of the term "hack" is to refer to a program that (sometimes illegally) modifies another program, often a computer game, giving the user access to features otherwise inaccessible to them. As an example of this use, for Palm OS users (until the 4th iteration of this operating system), a "hack" refers to an extension of the operating system which provides additional functionality. The general media also uses this term to describe the act of illegally breaking into a computer, but this meaning is disputed.

The term is additionally used by electronics hobbyists to refer to simple modifications to electronic hardware such as a graphing calculators, video game consoles, electronic musical keyboards or other device (see CueCat for a notorious example) to expose or add functionality to a device that was unintended for use by end users by the company who created it. A number of techno musicians have modified 1980s-era Casio SK-1 sampling keyboards to create unusual sounds by doing circuit bending: connecting wires to different leads of the integrated circuit chips. The results of these DIY experiments range from opening up previously inaccessible features that were part of the chip design to producing the strange, disharmonic digital tones that became part of the techno music style.


A DIY musician probes the circuit board of a synthesizer for "bends" using a jeweler's screwdriver and alligator clipsCompanies take different attitudes towards such practices, ranging from open acceptance (such as Texas Instruments for its graphing calculators and Lego for its Lego Mindstorms robotics gear) to outright hostility (such as Microsoft's attempts to lock out Xbox hackers or the DRM routines on Blu-ray Disc players designed to sabotage compromised players).
"

If this so called port is providing features that were otherwise unavailable then where is the hardware acceleration? We can sit here and argue over semantics with you, but the fact remains that the DX10 port/hack for WinXP does not provide all features of DX10 in Vista, and those features that it does provide it does not provide hardware acceleration for.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID
I suppose ppl in OS forum do not know software..

sad. i pity you all.

Aight, that's enough. The constructive conversation ended a long time ago. You're a insignificant troll that doesn't know sh1t and is obviously insecure and defensive about it. You'll drag this thread to god knows what lengths to mask your stupidity. Go somewhere else, your kind is not wanted here.

...oh and NO we're not reading your 20 page diatribe about what constitutes a hack/mod/port yada yada. We don't give a sh1t.

 

[Griffinhart]

lol, go ahead and try to argue semantics about what wiki calls a hack or a port.

It's nothing but diverting attention to the fact that project alky (the DX10 on XP project) simply doesn't work nor will it ever.

The simple truth is that they abandoned it in January. They left the code as open source, but no one has picked it up and continued the work. Even if they did, it wouldn't be hardware accelerated which makes it useless anyway.

 

[judasmachine]

Now maybe my memory is going soft after being around a few decades (and copious amounts of booze), but isn't this the same complaining that happens EVERY TIME MS releases a new OS? I mean I distinctly remember XP getting bashed, and many saying "wait for SP1" and later "wait for SP2." Maybe MS's real problem is that they need to spit and polish a little more before they go gold.

I LOLed at the Mojave Experiment.

 

[Crusty]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
Now maybe my memory is going soft after being around a few decades (and copious amounts of booze), but isn't this the same complaining that happens EVERY TIME MS releases a new OS? I mean I distinctly remember XP getting bashed, and many saying "wait for SP1" and later "wait for SP2." Maybe MS's real problem is that they need to spit and polish a little more before they go gold.

I LOLed at the Mojave Experiment.

The problem with trying to have them polish it up more is that the general public is the best QA department you can get

There are some bugs that just don't show up until you have mass amounts of people using it.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: Crusty

Originally posted by: judasmachine
Now maybe my memory is going soft after being around a few decades (and copious amounts of booze), but isn't this the same complaining that happens EVERY TIME MS releases a new OS? I mean I distinctly remember XP getting bashed, and many saying "wait for SP1" and later "wait for SP2." Maybe MS's real problem is that they need to spit and polish a little more before they go gold.

I LOLed at the Mojave Experiment.

The problem with trying to have them polish it up more is that the general public is the best QA department you can get

There are some bugs that just don't show up until you have mass amounts of people doing utterly retarded sh1t to it

fixed.

 

[Crusty]

Originally posted by: Smilin

Originally posted by: Crusty

Originally posted by: judasmachine
Now maybe my memory is going soft after being around a few decades (and copious amounts of booze), but isn't this the same complaining that happens EVERY TIME MS releases a new OS? I mean I distinctly remember XP getting bashed, and many saying "wait for SP1" and later "wait for SP2." Maybe MS's real problem is that they need to spit and polish a little more before they go gold.

I LOLed at the Mojave Experiment.

The problem with trying to have them polish it up more is that the general public is the best QA department you can get

There are some bugs that just don't show up until you have mass amounts of people doing utterly retarded sh1t to it

fixed.

Oh so true :laugh:

 

[JACKDRUID]

Originally posted by: Smilin


Aight, that's enough. The constructive conversation ended a long time ago. You're a insignificant troll that doesn't know sh1t and is obviously insecure and defensive about it. You'll drag this thread to god knows what lengths to mask your stupidity. Go somewhere else, your kind is not wanted here.

...oh and NO we're not reading your 20 page diatribe about what constitutes a hack/mod/port yada yada. We don't give a sh1t.

you , are the stupid troll who doesn't know sh1t. go to hell

Second thread today where your attacking other users. I suggest you either lose the attitude or stop posting in OS/Vista threads. Next time I *will* give you time off.
bsobel

 

[JACKDRUID]

Originally posted by: Griffinhart
lol, go ahead and try to argue semantics about what wiki calls a hack or a port.

It's nothing but diverting attention to the fact that project alky (the DX10 on XP project) simply doesn't work nor will it ever.

The simple truth is that they abandoned it in January. They left the code as open source, but no one has picked it up and continued the work. Even if they did, it wouldn't be hardware accelerated which makes it useless anyway.

so you admit you were wrong thinking there is a difference between a hack and a port, because according to wiki, its the same thing.

just admit it. ms ditched dx10 on xp for marketing reasons, not technical one.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID
I suppose ppl in OS forum do not know software..

sad. i pity you all.

Originally posted by: Smilin


Aight, that's enough. The constructive conversation ended a long time ago. You're a insignificant troll that doesn't know sh1t and is obviously insecure and defensive about it. You'll drag this thread to god knows what lengths to mask your stupidity. Go somewhere else, your kind is not wanted here.

...oh and NO we're not reading your 20 page diatribe about what constitutes a hack/mod/port yada yada. We don't give a sh1t.

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID
you , are the stupid troll who doesn't know sh1t. go to hell.

You caught me. I don't know anything about Vista. :roll: Thank you for your pity.

At least I didn't make a nutbag out of myself in front of everyone here

Ive discussed this and another thread with Jackdruid via PM. Lets all calm down and try to get back to the topic at hand
bsobel

 

[HeXploiT]

Originally posted by: VinDSL
The Mojave Experiment

Welcome to the "Mojave Experiment"

What do people think of Windows Vista when they don't know it's Windows Vista?

We disguised Windows Vista as codename "Mojave", the next Microsoft OS"...

Interesting!

Nobody in those videos were actors. Uh-uh.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID
Just admit it. ms ditched dx10 on xp for marketing reasons, not technical one.

By that logic, then we haven't built an outpost on the moon for marketing reasons, not technical ones. Microsoft has never implied there were any technical barriers to DX10 for XP.

 

[Griffinhart]

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID

Originally posted by: Griffinhart
lol, go ahead and try to argue semantics about what wiki calls a hack or a port.

It's nothing but diverting attention to the fact that project alky (the DX10 on XP project) simply doesn't work nor will it ever.

The simple truth is that they abandoned it in January. They left the code as open source, but no one has picked it up and continued the work. Even if they did, it wouldn't be hardware accelerated which makes it useless anyway.

so you admit you were wrong thinking there is a difference between a hack and a port, because according to wiki, its the same thing.

just admit it. ms ditched dx10 on xp for marketing reasons, not technical one.

I'll admit no such thing because it's simply not true. While It is a marketing benefit to say XP doesn't have it but Vista does the reasons MS didn't adopt it to XP is because the biggest change to DX10 is the driver model which is completely different. It would require a complete rewrite of how XP interfaces with the hardware. At that point it's a completely different OS and not an easy task to do and certainly cost prohibitive. It's just not worth sinking that kind of capital into a 6 year old (now 7) product.

Get it yet? It's not just a simple "hack" to get DX10 working under XP. Sure MS could make the change, but why would any company put that kind of work and money into such an old product?

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: Griffinhart
why would any company put that kind of work and money into such an old product?

Ding!

Why do you think DX 9 doesn't run on NT? It wasn't the MS marketting dept.


LOL at self. I can't believe I'm participating in this. It's such a stupid debate. Someone post the special olympics/arguing on the internet picture STAT!

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: Smilin
It's such a stupid debate. Someone post the special olympics/arguing on the internet picture STAT!

The reason we all fall into this trap is the same reason people participate in the Special Olympics. Admit it, there is a certain amount of enjoyment to arguing on the Internet. While it may not make us smarter, there is a certain amount of pleasure in doing so.

 

[Smilin]

The trap I fall into is the mistaken belief that people will listen to logic and reason.

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: Maximilian
[Windows 7 is] not stripped down, its more advanced with a better UI.

Originally posted by: Modelworks
Absolutely no reason to pay out for vista now.

Originally posted by: SickBeast
The free [Windows 7] beta runs great... use it...

LoL!

Kudos to MS!!!

It's working...

BTW, in case you guys haven't put it all together yet...

http://itmanagement.earthweb.c...s+7+Really+Mojave?.htm

Bwahahahaha! Talk about living in a vacuum...

EDIT

For the Rip Van Winkle types...

http://www.mojaveexperiment.com/

I reported on this some time ago, but nobody ever saw a screenshot of "Mojave" aka "Windows 7" except the guinea pigs!

The only reason MS is waiting a year to release Mojave - I mean Windows 7 - is so they can get the 'touch screens' working throughout the entire operating system - that's all...

Heh! Why do I have to explain this stuff to everybody?!?!?

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: VinDSL

Originally posted by: Maximilian
[Windows 7 is] not stripped down, its more advanced with a better UI.

Originally posted by: Modelworks
Absolutely no reason to pay out for vista now.

Originally posted by: SickBeast
The free [Windows 7] beta runs great... use it...

LoL!

Kudos to MS!!!

It's working...

BTW, in case you guys haven't put it all together yet...

http://itmanagement.earthweb.c...s+7+Really+Mojave?.htm

Bwahahahaha! Talk about living in a vacuum...

EDIT

For the Rip Van Winkle types...

http://www.mojaveexperiment.com/

I reported on this some time ago, but nobody ever saw a screenshot of "Mojave" aka "Windows 7" except the guinea pigs!

The only reason MS is waiting a year to release Mojave - I mean Windows 7 - is so they can get the 'touch screens' working throughout the entire operating system - that's all...

Heh! Why do I have to explain this stuff to everybody?!?!?

With all due respect...this is the dumbest thing I've read in years.

Pssst...a little hint. Look at the date of the article. That was written before Win7 was even really revealed in it's full glory, let alone released to the public as a beta.

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: BD2003
With all due respect...this is the dumbest thing I've read in years.

Pssst...a little hint. Look at the date of the article.

Maybe you didn't read the article closely enough. For instance:

The expected Windows 7 launch date is January, 2010. I've been covering Windows since 1990. In all those years, Microsoft always runs way behind schedule for releases of new operating systems, often years behind. But Microsoft is apparently rushing the OS. Microsoft announced today that it will distribute a "pre-beta build" of Windows 7 at its Professional Developers Conference October 27. Rumors suggest that the company could release the shipping version of Windows 7 in 2009. Wow! How on Earth will they do that?

The fact of the matter is, the author is right!

MS is not giving up on Vista. They just have to trick some ppl into using it - and they've succeeded!

Compare the comments made in the "Mojave Experiment" with the comments made in this forum. They're almost identical word-for-word...

With all due respect, everyone has been duped! The emperor has no clothes...

 

[lxskllr]

I agree. I don't see what people are gushing over with Win7. It's Vista with a worse(imo) gui. I'm happy with Vista, so I'm going to wait this one out.

 

[WT]

I think the other 90% of PC users can be optimistic about this OS (they sat out the last go-around, didn't they?) but we here represent the 10% of the PC users that don't care that we need a 128mb video card to run Aero, or that we need 2gb RAM to use it. Damn, I have a 1gb video card and 8gb of system RAM, so what do I care ??

Point being ... its nothing new for us (even Vista presented us with DX10) at all, so I'll get my free copies of Win7 at the rollout events, then sit back and install it at my leisure on one of my PCs. It just isn't that big a deal to somebody who lives and breathes higher end PCs.