The Modernist Cuisine

[yhelothar]

http://imgur.com/gallery/ecTPR

I obtained a copy of these books. It's a seriously good set of books that comprehensively covers all the techniques, science, and ingredients in cooking with the most amazing photos and diagrams.

 

[Crono]

I don't have the full, regular set, but I do have this and want to get the box set eventually. I think I heard of the books/author on The Food Programme or one of the NPR shows. Nathan Myhrvold used to be the CTO of Microsoft.

 

[DigDog]

not meant as a personal attack; i just read that thread and got mad.

right..

i am so against this. i viscerally hate this cuisine, it makes my blood boil. that img of the burger where every ingredient is over-engineered is everything that is wrong with the world today. this shit is worse than nouvelle cuisine.

now .. i will try to be reasonable. i'm sure the books are great to have, as there's cooking techniques to be learned from them. and maybe, just once in a while, one can go to one of these experimental restaurants a'la' Heston Blumenthal and have a snail porridge or whatnot; fine.

but that is entertainment, not food, just like a cocaine martini isn't food either.


first off, it's decadent. i do not believe for one minute that you need to infuse your lettuce with a reduction of a sous-vide meat stock to be able to feel the taste of food, and if you do, you are a pathetic human being and should be put down.

second, it's wrong that what started as the slow food revolution in france 30 years ago, has degenerated into this race which has led to burgers costing $30.
this is not what we planned. and the ones that screwed it up are a bunch of posers.

third .. how long exactly would it take to prep a burger like that. two days?


slow food was never complicated, it was never time consuming - needing complex machinery, intricate distribution networks, shipping and stocking losses, and ridiculous cooking methods - and it was never expensive.

we could get good quality ingredients for cheap and the point is that this, is all you need.


and beside, this is just wrong. you can't feed yourself a burger so good that it puts your brain on drugs, and call that living. you might as well get an extasy drip, since you already lost touch with reality.

 

[Crono]

not meant as a personal attack; i just read that thread and got mad.

right..

i am so against this. i viscerally hate this cuisine, it makes my blood boil. that img of the burger where every ingredient is over-engineered is everything that is wrong with the world today. this shit is worse than nouvelle cuisine.

now .. i will try to be reasonable. i'm sure the books are great to have, as there's cooking techniques to be learned from them. and maybe, just once in a while, one can go to one of these experimental restaurants a'la' Heston Blumenthal and have a snail porridge or whatnot; fine.

but that is entertainment, not food, just like a cocaine martini isn't food either.


first off, it's decadent. i do not believe for one minute that you need to infuse your lettuce with a reduction of a sous-vide meat stock to be able to feel the taste of food, and if you do, you are a pathetic human being and should be put down.

second, it's wrong that what started as the slow food revolution in france 30 years ago, has degenerated into this race which has led to burgers costing $30.
this is not what we planned. and the ones that screwed it up are a bunch of posers.

third .. how long exactly would it take to prep a burger like that. two days?


slow food was never complicated, it was never time consuming - needing complex machinery, intricate distribution networks, shipping and stocking losses, and ridiculous cooking methods - and it was never expensive.

we could get good quality ingredients for cheap and the point is that this, is all you need.


and beside, this is just wrong. you can't feed yourself a burger so good that it puts your brain on drugs, and call that living. you might as well get an extasy drip, since you already lost touch with reality.

I don't know about all the books, but the one I have is actually just relatively basic recipes with detailed information about cooking tools and methods at the beginning of the books. It's not very different from any other good cookbook, except maybe it's a lot clearer and with better photographs than most.

 

[TheSlamma]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q84nfWkLsYU

 

[yhelothar]

I don't have the full, regular set, but I do have this and want to get the box set eventually. I think I heard of the books/author on The Food Programme or one of the NPR shows. Nathan Myhrvold used to be the CTO of Microsoft.

That's a great condensed version for the kitchen. I really like all the work that went into the detailed photographs that clearly illustrates all the techniques.

not meant as a personal attack; i just read that thread and got mad.

SNIP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q84nfWkLsYU

It's stupid to assume something is good because of a pretentious, overly complex recipe. A steak is amazing with just salt and pepper. But at the same time, I wouldn't knock the burger without trying it. Life is all about exploring different things, and it's always cool to have more options to explore. So if someone wants to explore food in that way, even if I may not understand it, I wouldn't knock it. There are sommeliers that'd pay thousands for a wine that has a huge vocabulary of pretentious words to describe the subtle nuances of flavor. I probably wouldn't understand it if I drank it. But I could see how an enthusiast who really loves wine would appreciate it. Same goes for audiophiles and endless of other interests.

Live and let live.

 

[DigDog]

well yes, but you surely have noted that this trend is becoming the mainstream in food businesses.

it's either a) near-synthetic fastfood, or b) pretentious food.

i can't eat out anymore because it's either all made from the cheapest food range ingredients from the same supplier, or it's "sourced" and every buzz word in the menu makes the item more expensive.

back in my days, you got a steak and it had pepper on it; you would not get it without pepper, and you surely were not charged extra.

nowdays it's "rare ambrosian pepper shat out by a monkey during a summer moon" and it adds five quid on the cost of the burger.

this trend is not moving us away from the fast food nation, and anything which promotes, is evil in my book.


having said that, i will grant you that a responsible chef could learn a great deal from those books.


also, i said it before, i am not completely against these complicated preparations; i'm a heston fan too. but it's entertainment, not food. keep the hipster out of my burger plox.

 

[Crono]

well yes, but you surely have noted that this trend is becoming the mainstream in food businesses.

it's either a) near-synthetic fastfood, or b) pretentious food.

i can't eat out anymore because it's either all made from the cheapest food range ingredients from the same supplier, or it's "sourced" and every buzz word in the menu makes the item more expensive.

back in my days, you got a steak and it had pepper on it; you would not get it without pepper, and you surely were not charged extra.

nowdays it's "rare ambrosian pepper shat out by a monkey during a summer moon" and it adds five quid on the cost of the burger.

this trend is not moving us away from the fast food nation, and anything which promotes, is evil in my book.


having said that, i will grant you that a responsible chef could learn a great deal from those books.


also, i said it before, i am not completely against these complicated preparations; i'm a heston fan too. but it's entertainment, not food. keep the hipster out of my burger plox.

That trend has nothing to do with the books, and there's nothing wrong with elevating food quality or promoting things like food deconstruction, molecular gastronomy, or modernist cuisine, it's just the ones who are doing it badly or excessively that are giving the rest a bad name. That's the same for any trend or movement: there will always be (pardon the pun) bad eggs.

If you want old school traditional cuisines with plain labels to stick around, there's nothing wrong with that and it's not going anywhere. If "hipster" food takes over all the diners (or pubs, as the case may be) then maybe you can complain with more conviction.

It's not just entertainment, though, anymore than introducing spices to European cuisine hundreds of years ago was. I'm sure many people thought that was bs at the time, too. Anything that's truly pretentious doesn't survive long and gets filtered out given time and popularity. I know if you are using the phrase "back in my days" maybe you are too old and inpatient to wait out trends, but rest assured: no one feom the hipster police is coming to take your fried chicken and steak from your hands.

 

[Howard]

well yes, but you surely have noted that this trend is becoming the mainstream in food businesses.

it's either a) near-synthetic fastfood, or b) pretentious food.

i can't eat out anymore because it's either all made from the cheapest food range ingredients from the same supplier, or it's "sourced" and every buzz word in the menu makes the item more expensive.

back in my days, you got a steak and it had pepper on it; you would not get it without pepper, and you surely were not charged extra.

nowdays it's "rare ambrosian pepper shat out by a monkey during a summer moon" and it adds five quid on the cost of the burger.

this trend is not moving us away from the fast food nation, and anything which promotes, is evil in my book.


having said that, i will grant you that a responsible chef could learn a great deal from those books.


also, i said it before, i am not completely against these complicated preparations; i'm a heston fan too. but it's entertainment, not food. keep the hipster out of my burger plox.

tl;dr

Also you're an idiot for various reasons but I can forgive you.

 

[DigDog]

just read the ingredients and tell me in your opinion how long would 1 person take to prep that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dQcTZ-Bk6I
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RWhcmfIvX4
ramsay already criticized this behaviour years ago (it's worse now), and they have nowhere near the prep that this burger has. and it's 7 professionals working on it.

@Howard, thank you for your input. Your many years of experience in professional catering obviously reflect on your insight.
if you have any more advice, i'll gladly take it.

 

[Markbnj]

first off, it's decadent.

There's something to this idea.

 

[QueBert]

Holy shit these are some expensive ass cook books.

 

[Howard]

just read the ingredients and tell me in your opinion how long would 1 person take to prep that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dQcTZ-Bk6I
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RWhcmfIvX4
ramsay already criticized this behaviour years ago (it's worse now), and they have nowhere near the prep that this burger has. and it's 7 professionals working on it.

@Howard, thank you for your input. Your many years of experience in professional catering obviously reflect on your insight.
if you have any more advice, i'll gladly take it.

 

[Newell Steamer]

ATOT: The Archie Bunker Of The Internet

Holy fuck, there is more to a cuisine's taste than salt, pepper and mustard,... oh, and deep frying everything.

Furthermore, this latest "craze" is optional. Not every restaurant serves pickles stuffed with sun dried figs and wrapped in garlic sautéed spinach from the Himalayan basin; calm the fuck down and go back to eating bland foods.

 

[Markbnj]

Holy fuck, there is more to a cuisine's taste than salt, pepper and mustard,... oh, and deep frying everything.

Yeah, so what? There are also people who are way too precious and take everything to absurd levels. So, now that we have outlined the two extremes, can the rest of us just get back to enjoying the truly good and accessible stuff in the middle?

 

[Newell Steamer]

Yeah, so what? There are also people who are way too precious and take everything to absurd levels. So, now that we have outlined the two extremes, can the rest of us just get back to enjoying the truly good and accessible stuff in the middle?

I'm not the one losing my mind over people trying something new.

 

[OutHouse]

I'll take a carlsjr double western bacon burger over that any day and it's probably has less fat and cholesterol.

 

[MongGrel]

I'll take a carlsjr double western bacon burger over that any day and it's probably has less fat and cholesterol.

I'd tend to agree, actually.

 

[JEDIYoda]

ATOT: The Newell Steamer the Archie Bunker Of The Internet

<<-- fixed

 

[Markbnj]

I'm not the one losing my mind over people trying something new.

"Something new," lol. I don't know the formal name for this rhetorical technique but it's immediately recognizable.

Did DigDog criticize the practice of trying new foods? I don't think so. So why try to play down the specific points he made? Is the pursuit of cuisine like this decadent? One of the word's definitions is "a person who is luxuriously self-indulgent."

I don't find that characterization difficult to attach to things like hyper-expensive dishes with truffles and gold dust and shit like that, and subjectively it feels like there is some significant overlap between indulgences of that sort and the kind of food being discussed here.

 

[Crono]

I don't find that characterization difficult to attach to things like hyper-expensive dishes with truffles and gold dust and shit like that, and subjectively it feels like there is some significant overlap between indulgences of that sort and the kind of food being discussed here.

And here is the problem. You are intuiting and generalizing. This is akin to saying you think all hip hop music is bad because you heard a rap song once, or think all rap music is necessarily about pushing luxury goods because Kanye said something about Louis Vuitton. Or that all programmers are socially awkward, basement-dwelling nerds because television. It doesn't take naming a logical fallacy to identify when someone is speaking out of ignorance on a subject.

Modernist cuisine (at its core, anyway, there is a longer formal definition) is about rethinking and improving food. It has nothing to do with an attitude that says gold leaf and truffle oil needs to be on everything. Modernist cuisine isn't about expensive ingredients at all. The focus instead is on using the proper tools and techniques to make delicious meals. It's more a food science approach, but the kitchen has always been an informal lab, the way I see it. Yes, there are some recipes calling for vacuum sealing, blow torching, and sous vide cooking, but none of that is all that new or hard, and most aren't any more outrageous than the basic cooking methods used that are readily available to most people (normal oven, stovetop, pressure cooking, and even microwave).

The image of the burger is just an extreme example of how you could construct a burger the modernist way. It's a labor-intensive example of rethinking the burger or trying one way - and no one is purporting it to be the only or best way - to make a very good burger. It's not gospel, and it's not even the most extravagant example you could find from older/more traditional cooking. No one is saying you, me, or anyone needs to create every food item that precisely.

If you want to criticize the books from a knowledgeable position, you can always read them instead of conflating them with something you feel is indulgent. The book I have isn't filled with overly complex and expensive cuisine, it's as practical as any other home cookbook. Most of the recipes are certainly easier to follow than some of the Indian recipes I've tried, for example. Many desserts (especially cakes, and many French pastries) are far more elaborate and expensive creations than anything you'd find in the book, and yet I doubt you would eschew them all unless you really are a literal meat-and-potatoes only kind of guy.

 

[Markbnj]

Many desserts (especially cakes, and many French pastries) are far more elaborate and expensive creations than anything you'd find in the book, and yet I doubt you would eschew them all unless you really are a literal meat-and-potatoes only kind of guy.

Well I am not really a dessert guy, other than occasional simple cakes/pies. As for "meat and potatoes," I do love me some meat and potatoes, but also Indian food, Vietnamese food, Thai food, Chinese food, Pakistani food, and a few other cuisines, al of which consist of real dishes evolved within their cultures over centuries using indigenous real ingredients that play beautifully together.

As for intuiting and generalizing, of course I am, as you are.

 

[Newell Steamer]

"Something new," lol.

Something new, something different - take your pick. But, the point is that no one is forcing this on you. You do understand that, right?

What does it matter to you what other people spend their time and money on?

 

[Newell Steamer]

<<-- fixed

You didn't fix anything, this does not make any sense.

ATOT: The Newell Steamer the Archie Bunker Of The Internet

Are you trying to say I am the Archie Bunker of ATOT?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Cooking is a form of artistic expression for many that engage in it. For others, it is perfunctory and perforce. Artists are always pushing the envelope; finding new mediums to work in. And as with any artistic endeavor, there are always critics.