The minimum wage

[Craig234]

Competition? Maybe in a free market. Ours is not a free market. As more politicians, regulators and feds are bought off, collusion will increasingly become the rule and less the exception.

Ours is not a 'totally free market', but it is a partially free market and the competitive situation I mentioned generally exists.

 

[Lithium381]

There are costs in addition to just the wage itself. It now means the corp has to withold/pay more in taxes/ss/etc

the argument is that we need a "living" wage. The expectation is that people shouldn't be making their living at minimum wage. Teenagers and part timers make minimum wage while learning a skill that earns you more. Obama brings up a "family of 4". . . if you've got two (possibly) uneducated people working for minimum wage, then maybe they should NOT have two kids. Kids are expensive!

 

[Craig234]

There are costs in addition to just the wage itself. It now means the corp has to withold/pay more in taxes/ss/etc

the argument is that we need a "living" wage. The expectation is that people shouldn't be making their living at minimum wage. Teenagers and part timers make minimum wage while learning a skill that earns you more. Obama brings up a "family of 4". . . if you've got two (possibly) uneducated people working for minimum wage, then maybe they should NOT have two kids. Kids are expensive!

That would be more persuasive if we weren't in an absurd massive concentration of wealth where there is absolutely no reason for people not make more.

You know that nice economic recovery since the 2008 crash? Where the stock market doubled?

In the first two years, out of all the economic growth - massive for the nation - the top 1% took 121% of it fo rthe first two years.

That's right - not only did all of it go to them, but more as workers got even less.

Overall, 93% has gone to them of all the recovery. It's absurd.

Do I need to post a chart showing how productivity has doubled, the economy has doubled, while worker pay has been flat for a long period before the crash?

The concentration of power causing this corruption needs to be reversed, got an idea?

 

[Lithium381]

That would be more persuasive if we weren't in an absurd massive concentration of wealth where there is absolutely no reason for people not make more.

You know that nice economic recovery since the 2008 crash? Where the stock market doubled?

In the first two years, out of all the economic growth - massive for the nation - the top 1% took 121% of it fo rthe first two years.

That's right - not only did all of it go to them, but more as workers got even less.

Overall, 93% has gone to them of all the recovery. It's absurd.

Do I need to post a chart showing how productivity has doubled, the economy has doubled, while worker pay has been flat for a long period before the crash?

The concentration of power causing this corruption needs to be reversed, got an idea?

Won't argue that point with you.. but raising the minimum wage in a downturn like this makes some people simply "unemployable". They are simply not even worth minimum wage to pay them to show up. That's who it hurts. And most businesses as said before will raise prices to adjust for it. The cycle continues. And it's only hurt the little guy.

 

[Craig234]

Won't argue that point with you.. but raising the minimum wage in a downturn like this makes some people simply "unemployable". They are simply not even worth minimum wage to pay them to show up. That's who it hurts. And most businesses as said before will raise prices to adjust for it. The cycle continues. And it's only hurt the little guy.

Please don't take this the wrong way,but can you provide *evidence* for that so it's not just 'it sounds good, so I'll decide it's correct'?

Studies find a lot of myths about the minimum wage are false, including the primary one about it's horrible harm to employment.

Actually, I think they're 'worth' $9 rather than $7.50; it's just the power situation doesn't let them 'negotiate' well for that $9.

As history shows us, without a minimum wage and other legal protections for workers, we'd have basically 'slave wages', as they do in other countries without them and we used to.

 

[Lithium381]

Please don't take this the wrong way,but can you provide *evidence* for that so it's not just 'it sounds good, so I'll decide it's correct'?

Studies find a lot of myths about the minimum wage are false, including the primary one about it's horrible harm to employment.

Actually, I think they're 'worth' $9 rather than $7.50; it's just the power situation doesn't let them 'negotiate' well for that $9.

As history shows us, without a minimum wage and other legal protections for workers, we'd have basically 'slave wages', as they do in other countries without them and we used to.

I'm thinking it through and that's what I came up with. No hard evidence. "it's just the power situation doesn't let them 'negotiate' well for that $9". . . . .. negotiate? with no high-school diploma? No references? No previous experience?

Who has more bargaining leverage? A high-school dropout with no jobh history or someone who's got an AA degree from the local community college that's worked before. Who is more likely to get a single job that they're both competing for. In this market every job is being competed for.

That highschool dropout is SOL in finding a job. And as I said, people shouldn't be fully supporting themselves on minimum wage. Students going to school, living in a dorm or at home still. . . . teenagers still living at home....spouse or retired person just looking for something to do...

 

[blankslate]

for a large company it won't effect much.


smaller company's and "mom and pop" type this is going to effect. this will effect hireing on smaller business.

though most places do pay roughly $9 anyway so it won't matter much

pretty much this. Large companies are more likely to have minimum wage employees than smaller companies.

 

[Craig234]

I'm thinking it through and that's what I came up with. No hard evidence. "it's just the power situation doesn't let them 'negotiate' well for that $9". . . . .. negotiate? with no high-school diploma? No references? No previous experience?

Who has more bargaining leverage? A high-school dropout with no jobh history or someone who's got an AA degree from the local community college that's worked before. Who is more likely to get a single job that they're both competing for. In this market every job is being competed for.

That highschool dropout is SOL in finding a job. And as I said, people shouldn't be fully supporting themselves on minimum wage. Students going to school, living in a dorm or at home still. . . . teenagers still living at home....spouse or retired person just looking for something to do...

I think you missed my point.

When you argue the low-skill worker can't 'negotiate', you are not recognizing the situation I'm trying to refer to.

If they're just 'bad' as you describe, why not pay them a few crappy bits of food a day? Or 5 cents an hour? Without any protections?

I'm referring to the power balance needed for them to get a 'fair deal'. And that comes from the democracy - they can vote - and the law.

When it's not corrupted by those with the money.