The Microsoft Image Makeover---successful?

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Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,920
2,161
126
Originally posted by: DougK62
Originally posted by: Fritzo
Originally posted by: DougK62
IE8 is awful. It displays pages incorrectly constantly because they STILL won't follow standards, and many websites just won't work with it for no apparent reason. They can't even get their own Outlook Web Access (03) to work properly with IE8. It's a mess, and I still tell everyone to not install it.

EDIT: Oh, and it's really slow.

Are you sure this isn't just you, or maybe you were using the buggy beta from the beginning of the year? We have about 30000 people using Outlook Web Access with IE 8 that are not having this problem.

What version of OWA? We're using 2003, and there is a known bug where because of IE8 users are unable to open email attachments that are in the new Office xml (docx, pptx, etc) formats. It's a real pain in the butt, and it's been like this since IE8 came out.

I just checked- we use Exchange 2007. Seems like more of a 2003 product having issues with 2007 product :D
 

DougK62

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2001
8,035
6
81
Originally posted by: Fritzo
Originally posted by: DougK62
Originally posted by: Fritzo
Originally posted by: DougK62
IE8 is awful. It displays pages incorrectly constantly because they STILL won't follow standards, and many websites just won't work with it for no apparent reason. They can't even get their own Outlook Web Access (03) to work properly with IE8. It's a mess, and I still tell everyone to not install it.

EDIT: Oh, and it's really slow.

Are you sure this isn't just you, or maybe you were using the buggy beta from the beginning of the year? We have about 30000 people using Outlook Web Access with IE 8 that are not having this problem.

What version of OWA? We're using 2003, and there is a known bug where because of IE8 users are unable to open email attachments that are in the new Office xml (docx, pptx, etc) formats. It's a real pain in the butt, and it's been like this since IE8 came out.

I just checked- we use Exchange 2007. Seems like more of a 2003 product having issues with 2007 product :D

I wish it were that simple! Uninstalling IE8 to go back to IE7 has everything working perfectly again for the user.
 

ivan2

Diamond Member
Mar 6, 2000
5,772
0
0
www.heatware.com
Originally posted by: drinkmorejava
Definitely PS3 over xbox. I have multiple friends that have even sold their 360s to get a PS3, none have looked back. I hate to use shitty buzz words, but the immersive media experience of the PS3 is simply epic. Just purchased a slim, and while no longer prettier than the 360, I couldn't image ever liking the xbox again.

i have both system and i can tell that you are being sarcastic.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
- Zune HD - a real contender for the fabled IPOD killer. I've never actually "wanted" an IPod. With the ZuneHD's HD radio tuner, beautiful OLED screen, mobile browser, and ZunePass for $14.99/month with unlimited song downloads (10 of which you get for keeps per month), I'm set to buy. It's even supposed to sync with your Xbox.

I was thinking of getting one to switch from Napster to Zune Pass but:

No app store. The 3-4 games MS offers have unskippable ads and take 30 seconds to load.

You can share your XNA Game studio apps, but you must give others your source code and they must install Visual C#, XNA, Net 3.5 then build and deploy from your source.

No Flash support in the browser and it's very slow compared to the iTouch / iPhone (1/10 the speed for JavaScript).
 

jman19

Lifer
Nov 3, 2000
11,225
664
126
IE8 is better than IE7, but it still lags the competition in terms of speed and standards support - both are major fail IMO.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,587
82
91
www.bing.com
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
- Zune HD - a real contender for the fabled IPOD killer. I've never actually "wanted" an IPod. With the ZuneHD's HD radio tuner, beautiful OLED screen, mobile browser, and ZunePass for $14.99/month with unlimited song downloads (10 of which you get for keeps per month), I'm set to buy. It's even supposed to sync with your Xbox.

I was thinking of getting one to switch from Napster to Zune Pass but:

No app store. The 3-4 games MS offers have unskippable ads and take 30 seconds to load.

You can share your XNA Game studio apps, but you must give others your source code and they must install Visual C#, XNA, Net 3.5 then build and deploy from your source.

No Flash support in the browser and it's very slow compared to the iTouch / iPhone (1/10 the speed for JavaScript).

App store is coming, its just another month or so away.

iPhone doesnt support flash either.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,574
126
i'm cursing windows 7 for its annoying interface changes. why does MS feel the need to hide or outright remove interface bits with the last several operating systems? vista got rid of the button on windows explorer that goes up one directory. i use that thing all the time. they replaced it with some crappy bar thing that doesn't work anywhere near as well. windows 7 hides the quick launch. i've got 75 items in my quick launch.

i think i'm just going to run windoes xp in a vm for everything.
 

TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
16,800
45
91
Zune HD is pretty sweet, but the only downside to it is the applications. The iPod touch dominates that market. If you even remotely care about applications you'll have to get a iPod touch. :(

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
- Zune HD - a real contender for the fabled IPOD killer. I've never actually "wanted" an IPod. With the ZuneHD's HD radio tuner, beautiful OLED screen, mobile browser, and ZunePass for $14.99/month with unlimited song downloads (10 of which you get for keeps per month), I'm set to buy. It's even supposed to sync with your Xbox.
No Flash support in the browser and it's very slow compared to the iTouch / iPhone (1/10 the speed for JavaScript).

I have heard otherwise... No flash support, same for iPhone/iPod Touch. I have heard it is rivaling the iPod touch and iPhone in terms of speed and usability.
 

nerp

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,865
105
106
Originally posted by: DougK62
Originally posted by: Fritzo
Originally posted by: DougK62
Originally posted by: Fritzo
Originally posted by: DougK62
IE8 is awful. It displays pages incorrectly constantly because they STILL won't follow standards, and many websites just won't work with it for no apparent reason. They can't even get their own Outlook Web Access (03) to work properly with IE8. It's a mess, and I still tell everyone to not install it.

EDIT: Oh, and it's really slow.

Are you sure this isn't just you, or maybe you were using the buggy beta from the beginning of the year? We have about 30000 people using Outlook Web Access with IE 8 that are not having this problem.

What version of OWA? We're using 2003, and there is a known bug where because of IE8 users are unable to open email attachments that are in the new Office xml (docx, pptx, etc) formats. It's a real pain in the butt, and it's been like this since IE8 came out.

I just checked- we use Exchange 2007. Seems like more of a 2003 product having issues with 2007 product :D

I wish it were that simple! Uninstalling IE8 to go back to IE7 has everything working perfectly again for the user.

Why were they updated to IE8 in the first place then? Your problem sounds self-induced due to lack of testing.

 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,286
145
106
From a Win7 stand point. I think the best thing that MS did or could have done was release a beta version. I really don't see huge improvements from vista to win7. However, generally people are really quite positive about Win7. The reason? Because reviewers can't create their giant lying orgies like they did with vista. With vista, MS gave the reviews a sneak preview, someone let out a bad review, then another, then the people started laughing about it, then all hell broke loose and the majority of pc reviews came out negative. Because the people loved it, vista started off with a bad rap. I've heard very few people bash vista that actually run it, the majority of bashers are people who have never actually used it.

Now take a step back to win7. MS basically says "Screw you reviewers" creates an open beta for everyone so that now reviewers get the same copy that is available to everyone, for free. A bad review comes in, and then, rather then having the mass "MS Sux" Fest that they did in the past, comments generally start to be "WTF are you talking about? I love Win7". because most reviewers see a positive comment push, they start to release reviews that put Win7 in a higher light. Many titling their reviews like "Win7 microsofts most awesome OS yet" Ect. The consumers read that, and now I have yet to hear a negative comment about win7.

What did MS learn? The consumers are sheep, if they don't get to see something with their own eyes, they will believe whatever is said about that thing without question. That massive amount of fear alone is enough to make them completely avoid a product.
 

blinblue

Senior member
Jul 7, 2006
889
0
76
Originally posted by: ElFenix
i'm cursing windows 7 for its annoying interface changes. why does MS feel the need to hide or outright remove interface bits with the last several operating systems? vista got rid of the button on windows explorer that goes up one directory. i use that thing all the time. they replaced it with some crappy bar thing that doesn't work anywhere near as well. windows 7 hides the quick launch. i've got 75 items in my quick launch.

i think i'm just going to run windoes xp in a vm for everything.

Personally I find the bar to be much better, you can just click on the folder you want to go to. Say you are 10 folders deep into something, and you need to go up 5 folders, where before you'd click the Up 5 times you can now just click on that folder in the bar. I find 1 click better than 5.

However, sometimes I do agree that an up button is useful. But you can achieve the same thing by pressing alt+up-arrow.

edit: oh and if you want to see the path written out, just click on a blank part of the bar it will give you the written path

And you can bring back the quick launch if you want (requires a bit of work, but nothing a power user couldn't do)

Basically, if you really want, Microsoft made it so Windows 7 can work/look like previous versions. It just requires some ctrl/alt/shift combination. It wouldn't take long at all to become very proficient in it. Thought honestly, I have very rarely missed the old way.
 

Krynj

Platinum Member
Jun 21, 2006
2,816
8
81
Originally posted by: Cogman
What did MS learn? The consumers are sheep, if they don't get to see something with their own eyes, they will believe whatever is said about that thing without question. That massive amount of fear alone is enough to make them completely avoid a product.

Case in point: Mojave.
 

TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
16,800
45
91
Originally posted by: ElFenix
i'm cursing windows 7 for its annoying interface changes. why does MS feel the need to hide or outright remove interface bits with the last several operating systems? vista got rid of the button on windows explorer that goes up one directory. i use that thing all the time. they replaced it with some crappy bar thing that doesn't work anywhere near as well. windows 7 hides the quick launch. i've got 75 items in my quick launch.

i think i'm just going to run windoes xp in a vm for everything.

Alt+UpArrow ftw?
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
Originally posted by: Train
Originally posted by: drinkmorejava
Definitely PS3 over xbox. I have multiple friends that have even sold their 360s to get a PS3, none have looked back. I hate to use shitty buzz words, but the immersive media experience of the PS3 is simply epic. Just purchased a slim, and while no longer prettier than the 360, I couldn't image ever liking the xbox again.

Netflix on Xbox live alone pretty much blows anything the PS3 can do out of the water, IMO

What does the PS3 have that xbox cant do better and cheaper? Blue-Ray? meh, not interested. How cheap are blu-ray players now?

A shit ton of movies and TV shows instantly streamable? for only $8.99 a month? shit I might as well cancel cable. Netflix FTMFW

You can do Netflix on Tivo instead. Why 'meh' on Blu-Ray? Have you actually seen Blu-Ray on a good TV? Compare the image quality of a Blu Ray movie to the crap Netflix is streaming you - its night and day.

Also, by the way, PS3 is $299 now - the whole 'cheaper' argument doesn't hold nearly as much weight as it used to.
 

dr150

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2003
6,570
24
81
Zune HD = FAIL

....no Divx support
.
.
.
.
I still don't think they listen to customers! :thumbsdown:
 

Platypus

Lifer
Apr 26, 2001
31,046
321
136
Originally posted by: dr150
Zune HD = FAIL

....no Divx support
.
.
.
.
I still don't think they listen to customers! :thumbsdown:

They went out of their way to ensure it failed apparently... no application store wtf?
 

krylon

Diamond Member
Nov 17, 2001
3,927
4
81
Originally posted by: dr150
Zune HD = FAIL

....no Divx support
.
.
.
.
I still don't think they listen to customers! :thumbsdown:

HD and DivX. Does not compute. The year is 2009 and h.264 is here.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
Originally posted by: TridenT
Zune HD is pretty sweet, but the only downside to it is the applications. The iPod touch dominates that market. If you even remotely care about applications you'll have to get a iPod touch. :(

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
- Zune HD - a real contender for the fabled IPOD killer. I've never actually "wanted" an IPod. With the ZuneHD's HD radio tuner, beautiful OLED screen, mobile browser, and ZunePass for $14.99/month with unlimited song downloads (10 of which you get for keeps per month), I'm set to buy. It's even supposed to sync with your Xbox.
No Flash support in the browser and it's very slow compared to the iTouch / iPhone (1/10 the speed for JavaScript).

I have heard otherwise... No flash support, same for iPhone/iPod Touch. I have heard it is rivaling the iPod touch and iPhone in terms of speed and usability.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets...9/zune-hd-review.ars/3
SunSpider JavaScript benchmark, old iPod / iTouch 3G is 4.5 times fast, the newer 3GS is 12 times as fast.

App store is coming, its just another month or so away.
Link? MS told ArsTechnica there won't be one for anything but the handful of MS-created apps like chess.

No app store (Sept 15):
http://www.businessinsider.com/zune-hd-app-store-2009-9

No app store (Sept 15):
http://news.slashdot.org/story...softs-Zune-HD?from=rss

MS PR spokesguy:
"Q: Will it open up for third-party app developers?

A: It's hard to say right now. ...

Down the road if there's a way we can work with Windows Mobile or another group inside the company that's building an app store and take advantage of that, that's something we'll look into."
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,587
82
91
www.bing.com
Originally posted by: Deeko
Originally posted by: Train
Originally posted by: drinkmorejava
Definitely PS3 over xbox. I have multiple friends that have even sold their 360s to get a PS3, none have looked back. I hate to use shitty buzz words, but the immersive media experience of the PS3 is simply epic. Just purchased a slim, and while no longer prettier than the 360, I couldn't image ever liking the xbox again.

Netflix on Xbox live alone pretty much blows anything the PS3 can do out of the water, IMO

What does the PS3 have that xbox cant do better and cheaper? Blue-Ray? meh, not interested. How cheap are blu-ray players now?

A shit ton of movies and TV shows instantly streamable? for only $8.99 a month? shit I might as well cancel cable. Netflix FTMFW

You can do Netflix on Tivo instead. Why 'meh' on Blu-Ray? Have you actually seen Blu-Ray on a good TV? Compare the image quality of a Blu Ray movie to the crap Netflix is streaming you - its night and day.

Also, by the way, PS3 is $299 now - the whole 'cheaper' argument doesn't hold nearly as much weight as it used to.

Ya I've seen blue ray... not impressed. How much do BR movies cost? Ya exactly. And netflix wants you to pay more for them too. GTFO

So you want me to add a tivo to a PS3 just so it can do what an XBOX does? wtf cost and redundacy fail. How about using your xbox as a DVR? It just blew tivo away too.

Add to that XBL has about 100 times as many people and games and content then the stupid Playstation network.

I'm still waiting for the sales explosion from the $299 ps3... Sony is about two years late to that party.

 

yhelothar

Lifer
Dec 11, 2002
18,409
39
91
Originally posted by: swanysto
Personally, I have the first generation crap colored Zune, and I love it. The battery is starting to lose its ability to hold a charge, so it might be time for a new one. I always liked it cause of the FM radio tuner and the fact that you could use software to make it like a hard drive if you didn't feel like using the Zune software.

As far as the XBOX 360, I think it is a crappy system and wouldn't ever own one, but I am sure they will take their time and do it right for the next one.

Batteries are pretty cheap online/ebay, and they're pretty damn easy to change too.
 

yhelothar

Lifer
Dec 11, 2002
18,409
39
91
Originally posted by: dr150
Zune HD = FAIL

....no Divx support
.
.
.
.
I still don't think they listen to customers! :thumbsdown:

Uh it converts it for you when you upload it to the player. Hardly fail.

I guess apple fails too since any portable media player they offer only plays MPEG4 and h.264?
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
Originally posted by: Train
Ya I've seen blue ray... not impressed. How much do BR movies cost? Ya exactly. And netflix wants you to pay more for them too. GTFO

So you want me to add a tivo to a PS3 just so it can do what an XBOX does? wtf cost and redundacy fail. How about using your xbox as a DVR? It just blew tivo away too.

Add to that XBL has about 100 times as many people and games and content then the stupid Playstation network.

I'm still waiting for the sales explosion from the $299 ps3... Sony is about two years late to that party.

Netflix charges like....$1 more a month for Blu Ray? Hardly something to whine about. And you must have bad eyes or a shitty TV if you don't think the quality difference between streaming Netflix and Blu Ray is a big deal. I have Tivo because its the best DVR out there, and it has additional features like Netflix streaming and Amazon movie streaming.

Your petty argument here is very, very poor. PS3 does things 360 doesn't. 360 does things PS3 doesn't. Price is pretty much the same now. Its purely a matter of preference. If you try to make a blanket claim that the 360 is better than the PS3 no matter what, well, you are wrong. Its that simple, sport.
 

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,920
2,161
126
Originally posted by: troytime
win7 is vista with an osx interface?
that's pretty damn funny :)

LOL- it's true though. They took the fixed Vista SP2 stuff, added the snazzy OSX Dock bar, ripped out all the junk that was bogging the OS down, and called it Windows 7 :)