The Manchurian President

[bamacre]

they've done nothing about the role of Wall Street speculation in driving up commodity prices, including oil.

Where should these "speculators" put their money, Craig? Should they just keep their money in cash while Bernanke runs the printing presses?

 

[hal2kilo]

How's ethanol working out for you? :sneaky:

And Obama has what to do with the push to ethanol? Big give away to big agra. Done if I remember correctly during the Bu, Bu, Bu, Bush administration.

 

[jman19]

Right, we don't have any oil is what were are told. But then something comes out saying supposedly drilling off the coast of Alaska would make it the 8th largest oil producer in the world. But then we're told we should save it for when we really need it. Or its too risky to the environment. Or a million other excuses from the left on why we shouldn't go get it.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world is drilling where we should be and we sit around with our thumbs up our asses proud that we're not making any impact on the environment and saving our oil by having Brazil drill off our coasts instead of us.

BULLSHIT we don't have oil. We choose not to go get it while the rest of the world laughs and sells our own oil back to us.

Yeah... that's not what he said at all.

 

[PeshakJang]

And Obama has what to do with the push to ethanol? Big give away to big agra. Done if I remember correctly during the Bu, Bu, Bu, Bush administration.

Bush started it, the Democrats in congress greatly expanded it in 2007, it was recognized as an unequivocal failure shortly thereafter, and as soon as Obama got into officer, he pushed for expanded mandates.

In case you missed it, the UN recently called US ethanol policy a "crime against humanity".

I thought the new administration was supposed to solve the failures of previous years?

How about the half-billion dollar giveaway to a solar company that never opened?

How about the near-mandated electric car push? Sounds like he wants to drive up demand while restricting supply.... he must know like anyone else living in this world that our electric grid has next to zero extra capacity to support this.

 

[hal2kilo]

Bush started it, the Democrats in congress greatly expanded it in 2007, it was recognized as an unequivocal failure shortly thereafter, and as soon as Obama got into officer, he pushed for expanded mandates.

In case you missed it, the UN recently called US ethanol policy a "crime against humanity".

I thought the new administration was supposed to solve the failures of previous years?

How about the half-billion dollar giveaway to a solar company that never opened?

How about the near-mandated electric car push? Sounds like he wants to drive up demand while restricting supply.... he must know like anyone else living in this world that our electric grid has next to zero extra capacity to support this.

You're being politically dishonest if you think that either side isn't beholden to big agra.

As for you other rants, I have a towel for you to wipe the foam off your face.

 

[PeshakJang]

Where should these "speculators" put their money, Craig? Should they just keep their money in cash while Bernanke runs the printing presses?

This is one subject that I've asked a question about many times before, and liberals refuse to answer it truthfully.

According to the left, speculation in the energy market should be illegal or highly regulated, because driving up prices for oil and gas only hurts the little guys and the economy in general.

Then, they want to turn around and use the force of the government to tax the shit out of oil and gas, driving up the price, because that would reduce consumption and increase research into renewable energy.

But wait... isn't that EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED when speculation drove oil prices to all time highs? It seemed like there were 4-5 years where we heard all about new technologies to make existing technology more efficient, methods to extract fuel that were now economically effective, high-efficiency cars, high-efficiency homes, high-efficiency everything... as a result of, guess what, the free market!

The free market drove prices to all-time highs, so the rest of the free market started adapting to it by developing or advancing technologies that now made sense to implement.

So why do liberals cry like schoolchildren when the private sector fuels innovation by its own means, and insist that it can't happen without the government mandating it? Is it just more ethical when the government gets the money instead of the citizen?

 

[PeshakJang]

You're being politically dishonest if you think that either side isn't beholden to big agra.

As for you other rants, I have a towel for you to wipe the foam off your face.

Agriculture subsidies are supported by those in agricultural districts, but as a whole, the Democrat "green agenda" has done far more to promote this abject failure.

The UN literally said we were committing a crime against humanity by pushing for expanded use of ethanol. Bill Clinton even came out shortly after that statement was released and said that it just hurts starving people in other countries, and may lead to food riots.

Did our ethanol policy indirectly cause the uprisings in the middle east? :hmm:

 

[Jaskalas]

Where should these "speculators" put their money, Craig? Should they just keep their money in cash while Bernanke runs the printing presses?

That's an obvious answer. Government takes the money.

 

[hal2kilo]

Agriculture subsidies are supported by those in agricultural districts, but as a whole, the Democrat "green agenda" has done far more to promote this abject failure.

The UN literally said we were committing a crime against humanity by pushing for expanded use of ethanol. Bill Clinton even came out shortly after that statement was released and said that it just hurts starving people in other countries, and may lead to food riots.

Did our ethanol policy indirectly cause the uprisings in the middle east? :hmm:

Suprisingly, I agree with your last sentence. Worldwide food price hikes are probably the root cause of most of these uprisings. I will have to do some googling to see how many Republicans voted against all the ethanol subsidies.

 

[wuliheron]

First of all, it's not the equivalent of "strip mining and clear cutting".

Tell that to the people of the Gulf coast and Alaska.

More importantly, and something you fail to mention, our governments (fed and/or state) can generate tremendous amounts of revenue (something we badly need) through leases and royalties of up to 50% or more. Then there's the additional income tax revenue too.

Fern

Yeah, like they really couldn't create jobs any other way and all the middle class fishermen, restaurant owners, etc. of the Gulf coast weren't impacted by the spill. Some jobs just aren't worth the risk or the cost to society unless you just happen to be the mega corporation raking in the bucks.

 

[Fern]

Tell that to the people of the Gulf coast and Alaska.
-snip-

So it's OK if other countries drill in the Gulf?

And we're still shipping crude into our ports, by refusing to drill we're not avoiding the risk of spills. Not at all.

Fern

 

[boomerang]

From the Foxnews article you linked:


DOES NOT COMPUTE. Is this another emotional tirade or was this a mistake on the part of the OP?

Does every written word you see that you don't agree with come from Fox? 404 no Fox found. Duh.

As long as I've got the podium for a second or two, this article touched on so much more than just oil. I guess no one read it. It's a no win situation because if you quote an entire article here you get all the whining about it being too long.

I thought somebody might comment about the video done in New Zealand about our dear leader. Many in the rest of the world are laughing at how we put up with this non-committal organizer who thinks he's our leader. The laughing doesn't much matter to me, but you'd think after a while people would start paying attention and questioning their support of him. I guess that takes us right back to the short attention spans.

We deserve what we've got.

Edit: Just realized their are probably very few here that even understand what the term 'Manchurian' infers to. Silly me, I should have known.

 

[Narmer]

Does every written word you see that you don't agree with come from Fox? 404 no Fox found. Duh.

As long as I've got the podium for a second or two, this article touched on so much more than just oil. I guess no one read it. It's a no win situation because if you quote an entire article here you get all the whining about it being too long.

I thought somebody might comment about the video done in New Zealand about our dear leader. Many in the rest of the world are laughing at how we put up with this non-committal organizer who thinks he's our leader. The laughing doesn't much matter to me, but you'd think after a while people would start paying attention and questioning their support of him. I guess that takes us right back to the short attention spans.

We deserve what we've got.

Edit: Just realized their are probably very few here that even understand what the term 'Manchurian' infers to. Silly me, I should have known.

Your OP, or the quote in your OP, made an outright lie and you don't want to discuss that?

 

[Craig234]

What about the 2000 oil spike?

I haven't looked into it, sorry.

 

[Craig234]

Where should these "speculators" put their money, Craig? Should they just keep their money in cash while Bernanke runs the printing presses?

There should be systemic fixes so that activities bad for the country are not allowed.

Seriously, read 'Griftopia'.

 

[bamacre]

Suprisingly, I agree with your last sentence. Worldwide food price hikes are probably the root cause of most of these uprisings. I will have to do some googling to see how many Republicans voted against all the ethanol subsidies.

Well, that's one reason why food prices are high. The others being bad weather and monetary inflation. Egypt's inflation rates in '09 and '10 were >10%.

 

[bamacre]

There should be systemic fixes so that activities bad for the country are not allowed.

Seriously, read 'Griftopia'.

LOL, yeah right. Price fixing isn't the answer. How can government know what price oil should be? If the "speculators" can't put their money in oil, then it may go into food, and if that isn't allowed, they'll put their money in copper, or lead, or cotton. Maybe you should actually look into the actual disease, not the resulting symptoms.

 

[jonks]

I like the 'manchurian' nod to birthers. It's like catnip. As to the rest, yawn. When you feel like having a rational discussion about ideas or policies you take issue with, feel free to do so. When you and your ilk finish watching an episode of Beck and then go on ranting about how the president is intentionally and purposefully attempting to destroy the country, well the rest of us can go take a nap.

 

[Thump553]

This is one subject that I've asked a question about many times before, and liberals refuse to answer it truthfully.

According to the left, speculation in the energy market should be illegal or highly regulated, because driving up prices for oil and gas only hurts the little guys and the economy in general.

Then, they want to turn around and use the force of the government to tax the shit out of oil and gas, driving up the price, because that would reduce consumption and increase research into renewable energy.

But wait... isn't that EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED when speculation drove oil prices to all time highs? It seemed like there were 4-5 years where we heard all about new technologies to make existing technology more efficient, methods to extract fuel that were now economically effective, high-efficiency cars, high-efficiency homes, high-efficiency everything... as a result of, guess what, the free market!

The free market drove prices to all-time highs, so the rest of the free market started adapting to it by developing or advancing technologies that now made sense to implement.

So why do liberals cry like schoolchildren when the private sector fuels innovation by its own means, and insist that it can't happen without the government mandating it? Is it just more ethical when the government gets the money instead of the citizen?

Your short term memory is so bad that you should see a doctor. Crude Oil hit an all-time high of $145 per barrel in JUNE, 2008 after a very short run up. The free market adopted by essentially shutting down auto and truck sales, especially US manufacturers. That price spike coincides almost exactly with the beginning of what is now commonly known as the Great Recession.

Please don't use such obviously made up facts to support your rants.

PS-the only "liberal" calls I've seen for oil and gas futures regulation is a very commonsense call for a prohibition against naked futures. That makes a lot of sense to me in all futures markets, where our present poorly regulated systems allow future prices to be grossly distorted by market manipulators. The exact same thing is happening now in the silver and gold markets.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Bush started it...

Carter started it, you ignorant pup. Bob Dole, the Senior Senator from ConAgra, was the prime legislative ethanol pimp for decades.

Agriculture subsidies are supported by those in agricultural districts, but as a whole, the Democrat "green agenda" has done far more to promote this abject failure...

The primacy of the Iowa Caucuses in presidential nomination is the prime mover of Corn Ethanol for both political parties.

...Did our ethanol policy indirectly cause the uprisings in the middle east? :hmm:

It certainly contributes.

 

[Darwin333]

By the way, one of the propaganda points about Obama is 'make him seem different, un-American, scare people of their own president'.

This is why you constantly here allegations, however outrageous, that he's 'different' - Muslim, Kenyan, whatever, using 'the big lie' to prevent people from viewing him as 'our president', instead making them feel uncomfortable with him so they'll want 'one of us' to be president next election.

You serve this propaganda with your ridiculous use of the word 'Manchurian' having nothing to do with your post.

Do you know what it means? There was a movie decades ago about American soldiers captured by North Korea in the Korean war, and 'programmed' using mind control so they could be triggered agents - one was turned into a presidential assassin activated by a phone call.

"The Manchurian Candidate" was this soldier made a candidate so that he could get close to the president to kill him.

You just throw the word around like Obama is programmed by the Koreans to assassinate someone.

Like I said, idiocy.

Hey, we sorta agree on something. I think this makes twice this year.

You are correct about him being wrongly portrayed as "different". He is FAR closer to GW Bush than he is to socialist/communist/kenyan/muslim/etc...

 

[Jhhnn]

Funny, I remember our resident Righties raving incoherently about the BP spill, claiming it was all Obama's fault, how he was trying to ruin the affected red states' economies, yada, yada, yada...

And now, when he takes a more conservative tack wrt offshore drilling, why, the price of gas is his fault, too.

It's all Obama's fault. Everything. Yep. He used Kenyan time warp mind control to make Dubya and Dickie go to war and cut taxes at the same time, to twiddle their thumbs as the housing bubble erupted into a banking crisis, to create Gitmo and the Patriot Act- Everything. It's all his fault. Even the price of gas.

Bugs Bunny has a word for it- "Marooons!"

 

[bamacre]

Your short term memory is so bad that you should see a doctor. Crude Oil hit an all-time high of $145 per barrel in JUNE, 2008 after a very short run up.

That's because the money supply from roughly 2000 to 2005 was expanded more than at any other time in our history, and bellies were tired of investing in the housing bubble, and hungry for something else. The housing bubble started to burst before 2008, even before 2007. The money has to go somewhere.

The free market adopted by essentially shutting down auto and truck sales, especially US manufacturers. That price spike coincides almost exactly with the beginning of what is now commonly known as the Great Recession.

There's nothing "free market" about government setting interest rates and (poorly) managing the money supply.

PS-the only "liberal" calls I've seen for oil and gas futures regulation is a very commonsense call for a prohibition against naked futures. That makes a lot of sense to me in all futures markets, where our present poorly regulated systems allow future prices to be grossly distorted by market manipulators. The exact same thing is happening now in the silver and gold markets.

It's legalized fraud in most of those situations, and those "fixes" would be about as effective as prescribing aspirin for a brain tumor.

 

[bamacre]

Hey, we sorta agree on something. I think this makes twice this year.

You are correct about him being wrongly portrayed as "different". He is FAR closer to GW Bush than he is to socialist/communist/kenyan/muslim/etc...

:thumbsup: It's called corporatism, and as I've said before and I'll say again, the reason the GOP uses all those other names is because calling him a corporatist would just make them hypocrites. They'd rather be liars.

 

[Darwin333]

There should be systemic fixes so that activities bad for the country are not allowed.

Seriously, read 'Griftopia'.

Exactly how do you plan to do that when the stuff you are talking about is mostly purchased from other countries?

I completely agree with market reforms, such as naked shorts mentioned earlier, but that doesn't sound like what you are talking about.

The "activity" of relying on other countries, some of which despise us, for our economic wellbeing is bad for our country. Neither side seems willing to seriously fix that problem either.