The Maersk Alabama is . . .

[Thump553]

Maritime law is very specific and long settled on this point. A ship registered under the US flag is a US ship, regardless of where it was built, where the crew comes from, where the owner is, or the name of the ship. No amount of arguing or any analogies made is going to change that.

/end silly thread

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor
In fact a large portion of shipping is ultimately owned by Americans but you would have a hard time tracing that ownership. Its just the nature of the industry and the way it has panned out. To some extent FaaR's comment about a ships flag is correct.

I'm well aware of all this above, but didn't know about the Danish shipbuilding industry, thanks!

My father had his engineering degree from the New York State Maritime Academy, and was merchant marine before he was Navy. In fact, around 1957 or so, years after he'd mustered out, he was approached to be the one of the maritime engineers aboard the Savannah, the first nuclear powered civilian vessel.

It would have meant relocating, which is one of the reasons he turned it down.

Yup the Danes built a whole series of double hull tankers well before it became a regulation. The Danita was either the first or second in that series from that yard and it was a learning experience for all of us. Traditional tankers so stable that tankermen normally do not calculate stability as routine. With the double hull one had to be careful while loading or discharging to ensure she never went into neutral or negative stability - easily done if you weren't careful - or were carrying very light cargoes like naphtha.

I remember that ship being one of the best built ships I ever sailed on, with the exception of a 'project' ship owned by Wilhelmsen line which was built in Japan at almost double the cost of what it should have been (the owners wife wanted a showcase ship and she got it!). Its sad to see the Danish shipbuilding gone down.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Originally posted by: Perknose
Inspired by this exchange in "another" thread:

Originally posted by: FaaR

Originally posted by: feralkidThe Maersk Alabama is an American flagged ship.

So a Corvette Stingray with Russian plates is a Russian car then? lol!

The flag under which a ship sails is basically just a technicality; Maersk is still a Danish company, thus making it a Danish ship.

Two can play this game, noob:

So a Dane owning a Porsche makes Porsche a Danish car?

Because, it turns out, the Maersk Alabama was built by a German company, Flender Werft AG.

I suspected Denmark didn't have the industrial infrastructure to support a commercially viable builder of large ships.

Further documentation that the Maersk is indeed, an American ship crewed entirely by Americans and controlled by a company whose board of directors is 100%
Americans.

Maersk Line, Limited is based in Norfolk, Virginia, and is one of the Department of Defense's primary shipping contractors.

[...]

Maersk Line, Limited, a subsidiary of Denmark's A.P. Moller/Maersk A.S., is independently controlled by a board of directors comprised entirely of U.S. citizens.

And there you have it, the rest of the non-story!

FaaR, consider your nits picked! :laugh:

Danes used to have a very good shipbuilding industry. Example:

The following shipyards closed down in the course of 1999: Danyard Frederikshavn, Århus Flydedok, Nordsøværftet (Ringkøbing) and Svendborg Værft. At the beginning of 2000, the remaining shipyards building new ships are Ørskov Stålskibsværft and Danyard Aalborg- both privately owned - and Lindø Værft, the biggest shipyard in Denmark and owned by the Maersk group, which is itself owned by Mærsk Mckinney Møller, Denmark's biggest shipping company. Denmark no longer has any state-owned shipyards.

One of the first double hull tankers I sailed on in early 80's was build in Aarhus (another defunct yard which may be revived). And they were excellent ships, very well built and reliable. I found a picture of her here: she was called Danita then.

Also having a US subsidy means diddly squat in shipping. There are many shipping companies which operate US subsidiaries, though very few have US flagged ships. In fact a large portion of shipping is ultimately owned by Americans but you would have a hard time tracing that ownership. Its just the nature of the industry and the way it has panned out. To some extent FaaR's comment about a ships flag is correct.

Maersk obviously wanted to get into the Defense support business in the US which is why they have a large subsidy in the US. And any Us flagged ships have to be US crewed.

What about those oil tankers they reflagged in the 90s to give them US protection; I doubt they also swapped out crews.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: Thump553
Maritime law is very specific and long settled on this point. A ship registered under the US flag is a US ship, regardless of where it was built, where the crew comes from, where the owner is, or the name of the ship. No amount of arguing or any analogies made is going to change that.

/end silly thread

Legally yes.

But tell that to to KOTC and ask them what happened during Gulf war 1

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: lupi
What about those oil tankers they reflagged in the 90s to give them US protection; I doubt they also swapped out crews.

They started off having just the Capt & Radio officer (they had them in those days!!) from the US and the rest were regular KOTC officers/crew. But then they slowly switched all staff to US citizens.

And in the end the US kept a few of those ships (gratis - thank you very much) and never returned them. So Kuwait lost those ships either way :laugh: