Jaskalas
Lifer
- Jun 23, 2004
- 35,763
- 10,066
- 136
As to that question alone, all our enemies should be dead. No excuse to allow our killers to have safe haven.
If capturing a specific building or not, that depends entirely on the circumstances. I will say this however, they should have no where to run to. Anyone who doesn?t turn them in must risk paying the price of being killed along side our enemies whom they helped.
Do you really think the doctors, et al. are going to speak out against any insurgents? these people are killing civilians for wearing shorts, selling ice, etc. What do you think would happen to these guys if anyone found out they helped the Iraqi government or the US forces by pointing out where people were hiding out or storing weapons?
OutHouse
Lifer
- Jun 5, 2000
- 36,410
- 616
- 126
or read "Forgotten Soldiers" its a autobioagraphy of a german private on the russian front. some of the training he and his fellows went through when the Germans formed the "Gross Deutchland" division were inhumane. he even bitches about how bad they were treated by their own officers and how little food they had. This was just during training in poland before they were sent back to the front to try and slow down the russians.
Starbuck1975
Lifer
- Jan 6, 2005
- 14,698
- 1,909
- 126
No offense, but as we are playing in the realm of "what-if" scenarios, I think I have a better understanding of how I might behave under such circumstances.
If Americans took up arms in support of the invading army, then they would become viable military targets...similarly, it depends on the nature of their collaboration as to whether or not they fall under the category of combatants.
This is the situation that the Iraqi insurgency has put every Iraqi through due to their total neglect for what constitutes moral behavior in times of war.
Were it not for Saddam's iron fisted rule in Iraq, these dynamics would have emerged throughout that country...apparently the only thing preventing these people from resorting to violence is the threat of even more gruesome violence.
There is enough news footage and independent reports of the insurgency using mosques, hospitals and other protected targets for their operations such that their claim is not in the realm of the unlikely...because American forces have nothing better to do then go around harassing doctors in hospitals.
There are numerous examples of the Japanese, Germans, and even the Allies treating enemy POWs with less then the respect and conditions that they deserved...during the intense fighting and chaos at the Battle of the Bulge, there are numerous reports of both Axis and Allies forces executing enemy POWs...the Malmedy Massacre perhaps being the most widely known example.
God bless America.
Shiite gunmen kill 41 Sunnis in Baghdad By KIM GAMEL, Associated Press Writer 29 minutes ago, July 9, 2006.
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Masked Shiite gunmen stopped cars in western Baghdad Sunday and grabbed people off the streets, singling out the Sunni Arabs among them and killing at least 41, police said.
The rampage in the Jihad neighborhood was in apparent retaliation for the Saturday night car bombing of a Shiite mosque that killed two and wounded nine. Sunni leaders expressed outrage over the Sunday attacks, referring to them as a "massacre."
Armed men belonging to the Mahdi army, the Shiite militia loyal to radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, sealed off roads leading to the neighboring area of Shula, fearing reprisals, police said, although al-Sadr aides denied their militiamen were behind the attacks. Clashes also were reported in the area and in eastern Baghdad.
Two parked car bombs later struck the al-Timim Shiite mosque in central Baghdad, killing 17 people and wounding 38, according to police Lt. Mohammed Khayoun.
Police and witnesses said gunmen pulled up in four cars in the dangerous Jihad neighborhood in western Baghdad at about 10 a.m. and began seizing pedestrians and people in vehicles.
An Interior Ministry official, speaking on condition of anonymity for security reasons, said Shiite militiamen wearing masks and black uniforms roamed the neighborhood, abducting Sunnis.
Wissam Mohammad Hussein al-Ani, a 27-year-old Sunni calligrapher, said three gunmen stopped him as he walked toward the bus and asked him to produce his identification. They let him go after he produced a fake ID with a Shiite name but seized two young men standing nearby.
The Shiite owner of a supermarket in the area said he saw heavily armed men pull four people out of a car, blindfold them and force them to stand to the side while they grabbed five others out of a minivan.
"After ten minutes, the gunmen took the nine people to a place few meters away from the market and opened fire on them," Saad Jawad Kadhim al-Azzawi said. "When I heard the gunfire, I closed my supermarket and went home."
Police Lt. Maitham Abdul-Razzaq said 41 bodies were taken to hospitals and police were searching for more victims reportedly left dumped in the streets. He also said U.S. and Iraqi forces had sealed off the area.
Witnesses said the American forces were using loudspeakers to announce a two-day curfew.
Government leaders urged calm, with the prime minister's office saying the situation was under control and President Jalal Talabani calling on Iraqis to cling to national unity and "not be provoked by acts of violence that some want to look sectarian."
Al-Sadr also condemned the killings in a telephone conversation with Vice President Tariq al-Hashimi, who also heads the Sunni Iraqi Islamic Party, his secretary Mohammed Shaker said.
The cleric called for an emergency session of parliament to discuss the sectarian crisis and said he will form an investigative committee to bring those involved to justice, even if they are part of his Mahdi Army militia, al-Hashimi's secretary said.
But Sunnis were irate. Deputy Prime Minister Salam al-Zubaie, a member of the sect, called the attack "a real and ugly massacre," and blamed Iraqi security forces, widely believed to have been infiltrated by Shiite militias, for failing to maintain order.
"There are officers who instead of being in charge should be questioned and referred to judicial authorities," al-Zubaie told Al-Jazeera TV. "Jihad is witnessing a catastrophic crime."
Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's office distanced itself from al-Zubaie's comments, issuing a statement saying they "do not represent the government's point of view."
The Shiite-led government has vowed to crack down on Shiite militias and Iraqi troops backed by U.S. jets raided the stronghold of Sadr City on Friday, killing and wounding dozens of people.
An Interior Ministry aide said the situation was brought under control after several hours.
Maj. Gen. Ali Jasim told The Associated Press that by mid-afternoon, the neighborhood was "under the full control" of Interior Ministry commandos.
Alaa Maki, a member of the largest Sunni bloc in parliament, accused Shiite extremists of trying to wipe out the minority, which was dominant under Saddam Hussein but lost power to majority Shiites after his ouster.
"We demand the presidency, the prime minister and the parliament stand against this agenda," he said. "The situation is very serious. If it deteriorates, all of us will be losers."
Some Sunni leaders blamed the Madhdi army.
Sheikh Abdul Samad al-Hadithi, imam of the Fakhri Shanshal Sunni mosque that also was hit by a car bomb Friday, with two people killed, said the militiamen were looking for revenge for the bombing against the Shiite mosque Saturday.
He said they first set up checkpoints and killed nine employees of the Sunni Endowment, the state agency responsible for Sunni mosques and shrines, then went on a rampage, killing more than 50 people according to their IDs.
"They wanted to retaliate against people of the other sect," al-Hadithi said, accusing Interior Ministry forces at the site of standing by while the attacks occurred.
Al-Sadr aide Sheik Abdul-Hadi al-Darraji denied any links, saying the attackers were wearing the black uniforms to provoke sectarian tension.
Clashes also broke out between gunmen and Iraqi police in the eastern Fadhal neighborhood, but the situation was brought under control after several hours, Abdul-Razzaq said.
In other violence, gunmen killed an Iraqi intelligence officer in the Shiite holy city of Karbala, one of several deadly shootings targeting security forces.
The officer was gunned down after his car was intercepted in the center of Karbala, 50 miles south of Baghdad, health official Salim al-Abadi said.
Gunmen also opened fire on a foot patrol in eastern Baghdad, killing a policeman, police said. Another policeman was killed in a drive-by shooting in the northern city of Kirkuk.
___
Shiite gunmen kill 41 Sunnis in Baghdad By KIM GAMEL, Associated Press Writer 29 minutes ago, July 9, 2006.
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Masked Shiite gunmen stopped cars in western Baghdad Sunday and grabbed people off the streets, singling out the Sunni Arabs among them and killing at least 41, police said.
The rampage in the Jihad neighborhood was in apparent retaliation for the Saturday night car bombing of a Shiite mosque that killed two and wounded nine. Sunni leaders expressed outrage over the Sunday attacks, referring to them as a "massacre."
Armed men belonging to the Mahdi army, the Shiite militia loyal to radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, sealed off roads leading to the neighboring area of Shula, fearing reprisals, police said, although al-Sadr aides denied their militiamen were behind the attacks. Clashes also were reported in the area and in eastern Baghdad.
Two parked car bombs later struck the al-Timim Shiite mosque in central Baghdad, killing 17 people and wounding 38, according to police Lt. Mohammed Khayoun.
Police and witnesses said gunmen pulled up in four cars in the dangerous Jihad neighborhood in western Baghdad at about 10 a.m. and began seizing pedestrians and people in vehicles.
An Interior Ministry official, speaking on condition of anonymity for security reasons, said Shiite militiamen wearing masks and black uniforms roamed the neighborhood, abducting Sunnis.
Wissam Mohammad Hussein al-Ani, a 27-year-old Sunni calligrapher, said three gunmen stopped him as he walked toward the bus and asked him to produce his identification. They let him go after he produced a fake ID with a Shiite name but seized two young men standing nearby.
The Shiite owner of a supermarket in the area said he saw heavily armed men pull four people out of a car, blindfold them and force them to stand to the side while they grabbed five others out of a minivan.
"After ten minutes, the gunmen took the nine people to a place few meters away from the market and opened fire on them," Saad Jawad Kadhim al-Azzawi said. "When I heard the gunfire, I closed my supermarket and went home."
Police Lt. Maitham Abdul-Razzaq said 41 bodies were taken to hospitals and police were searching for more victims reportedly left dumped in the streets. He also said U.S. and Iraqi forces had sealed off the area.
Witnesses said the American forces were using loudspeakers to announce a two-day curfew.
Government leaders urged calm, with the prime minister's office saying the situation was under control and President Jalal Talabani calling on Iraqis to cling to national unity and "not be provoked by acts of violence that some want to look sectarian."
Al-Sadr also condemned the killings in a telephone conversation with Vice President Tariq al-Hashimi, who also heads the Sunni Iraqi Islamic Party, his secretary Mohammed Shaker said.
The cleric called for an emergency session of parliament to discuss the sectarian crisis and said he will form an investigative committee to bring those involved to justice, even if they are part of his Mahdi Army militia, al-Hashimi's secretary said.
But Sunnis were irate. Deputy Prime Minister Salam al-Zubaie, a member of the sect, called the attack "a real and ugly massacre," and blamed Iraqi security forces, widely believed to have been infiltrated by Shiite militias, for failing to maintain order.
"There are officers who instead of being in charge should be questioned and referred to judicial authorities," al-Zubaie told Al-Jazeera TV. "Jihad is witnessing a catastrophic crime."
Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's office distanced itself from al-Zubaie's comments, issuing a statement saying they "do not represent the government's point of view."
The Shiite-led government has vowed to crack down on Shiite militias and Iraqi troops backed by U.S. jets raided the stronghold of Sadr City on Friday, killing and wounding dozens of people.
An Interior Ministry aide said the situation was brought under control after several hours.
Maj. Gen. Ali Jasim told The Associated Press that by mid-afternoon, the neighborhood was "under the full control" of Interior Ministry commandos.
Alaa Maki, a member of the largest Sunni bloc in parliament, accused Shiite extremists of trying to wipe out the minority, which was dominant under Saddam Hussein but lost power to majority Shiites after his ouster.
"We demand the presidency, the prime minister and the parliament stand against this agenda," he said. "The situation is very serious. If it deteriorates, all of us will be losers."
Some Sunni leaders blamed the Madhdi army.
Sheikh Abdul Samad al-Hadithi, imam of the Fakhri Shanshal Sunni mosque that also was hit by a car bomb Friday, with two people killed, said the militiamen were looking for revenge for the bombing against the Shiite mosque Saturday.
He said they first set up checkpoints and killed nine employees of the Sunni Endowment, the state agency responsible for Sunni mosques and shrines, then went on a rampage, killing more than 50 people according to their IDs.
"They wanted to retaliate against people of the other sect," al-Hadithi said, accusing Interior Ministry forces at the site of standing by while the attacks occurred.
Al-Sadr aide Sheik Abdul-Hadi al-Darraji denied any links, saying the attackers were wearing the black uniforms to provoke sectarian tension.
Clashes also broke out between gunmen and Iraqi police in the eastern Fadhal neighborhood, but the situation was brought under control after several hours, Abdul-Razzaq said.
In other violence, gunmen killed an Iraqi intelligence officer in the Shiite holy city of Karbala, one of several deadly shootings targeting security forces.
The officer was gunned down after his car was intercepted in the center of Karbala, 50 miles south of Baghdad, health official Salim al-Abadi said.
Gunmen also opened fire on a foot patrol in eastern Baghdad, killing a policeman, police said. Another policeman was killed in a drive-by shooting in the northern city of Kirkuk.
___
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