The liberals $43 billion train to no where...

[marincounty]

Seems appropriate for California since, you know, it sucks. OTH this seems like it would be a much better idea for a state with no money.

Ha ha , California has no money? Ever heard of Silicon Valley? Larry Ellison? Hollywood?
California could buy and sell your state.
What's ironic is that California Democrats are trying to throw a bone to the Republican parts of California, you know, the parts that are suffering over 20% unemployment and using lots of food stamps and public assistance, and the righties are against it.
Republicans in California are so stubborn and refuse to compromise with Democrats they will oppose any effort to help them.
I say it's time to give up on them and let them stew in their right wing paradise.

 

[Slew Foot]

Ha ha , California has no money? Ever heard of Silicon Valley? Larry Ellison? Hollywood?
California could buy and sell your state.
What's ironic is that California Democrats are trying to throw a bone to the Republican parts of California, you know, the parts that are suffering over 20% unemployment and using lots of food stamps and public assistance, and the righties are against it.
Republicans in California are so stubborn and refuse to compromise with Democrats they will oppose any effort to help them.
I say it's time to give up on them and let them stew in their right wing paradise.

The people have money, the state doesnt. Despite having a 10% income tax, 8% sales tax, and 1-2% property tax on the most expensive houses in the country.

 

[ShawnD1]

Ha ha , California has no money?

Some "tax foundation" group says things are going moderately ok in California

It's worth noting that Romney's shit hole Massachusetts is ranked #1 most debt per person. Great leadership! That's a man who should run the country.

 

[chowderhead]

Complete mess. Governor Jerry Brown should be ashamed he wants this to be his legacy besides Rose Bird.

The CHSRA continues to be the most inept yet corrupt government entity I have ever seen.
http://californiawatch.org/dailyreport/no-document-exists-bullet-trains-speed-lawsuit-claims-16573
But according to a lawsuit filed by project opponents, the state High-Speed Rail Authority has not done any studies or written reports to verify that the trains actually will go fast enough to follow the law. The suit, filed by the County of Kings Board of Supervisors, quotes a May 31 email from a project official as saying that “no document exists” to verify that the train can meet its travel time deadline.

Instead, the rail authority’s promises are backed up by “verbal assertions based on (the) skill, experience and optimism” of project engineers, the rail official wrote in response to a request for public information.

They have only wishes and dreams and beliefs that the system will travel the required speed of 140mph and the duration of 2 hours and 40 minutes as directed by the law that was passed.
These engineers are either from Parsons Brinckerhoff the lead consultants on this project who were also responsible for the Big Dig going 6-7 times over project or perhaps Caltrans engineers who I think have yet to meet a deadline or a budget i.e. Bay Bridge retrofit.

I hope the lawsuits stop this mess before it is too late to waste even more money on this.

 

[iGas]

I showed the numbers....

$43 billion to build.
$100 buck to ride.
430 million passengers to break even (assuming NO operating costs)
10 million people per year riding the thing.
43 years to cover the cost of building it...

How long will it take to build the rail road?
How many workers will it employ?
How much income tax will it generate?
How much sales tax will it generate?

How many people will not be collecting unemployment?

By the look of things it will be a lot less than $43 billion.

 

[chucky2]

Some "tax foundation" group says things are going moderately ok in California

It's worth noting that Romney's shit hole Massachusetts is ranked #1 most debt per person. Great leadership! That's a man who should run the country.

Bummer, I'd have thought IL would have been higher up on the list. Maybe next year!

 

[EagleKeeper]

How long will it take to build the rail road?
How many workers will it employ? Padded 2.5K
How much income tax will it generate? Est $20M
How much sales tax will it generate? Est 5M

How many people will not be collecting unemployment? Best guess - every new worker $13K (one time saving)

By the look of things it will be a lot less than $43 billion.

For reference Amtrack employees 1 person / mile of operating track (21K)
This is 800 miles.
Being generous and allows 3 employees/mile - 2.5 K employees

Salary $80K due to CA generous public salary - 200M in yearly salary + 50M in benefit costs

Income Tax 10% 8K/employee
Federal Sales tax tables estimate @1200 / employee
Unemployment paid by state @ 26 weeks (500/week) - 13K / employee

Costs to the State 250M
Taxes back 25M

One time unemployment saved 32M


Amtrak salaries were 1/2 their operating costs.

Total estimated operating costs are now at 500M

Out of the 10M riders projected at $100/ride per year
half of them are needed to cover operational costs.

So instead of the 43 years to break even; you are pushing 90 years based on optimistic costs.

CA is already in debt; can it afford another $500M budget drain per year

$43B est costs and to CA and additional $20B for a 40yr system

 

[sm625]

It's not a train to nowhere, it is a feeding frenzy for at least 50,000 people. Some are obviously getting bigger chunks of that cash than others. But that is the one and only purpose. That is the purpose of all spending this government makes... Unaccountable, uncontrolled payoffs. A cesspit of corruption. And God people love it! Gonna vote four more years for Romneybama! Not a damn difference between the two when it comes to reckless fiscal insanity.

 

[PokerGuy]

Ha ha , California has no money? Ever heard of Silicon Valley? Larry Ellison? Hollywood?

Yep, I've heard of those places and people, and last I checked, they are not the state of California. California as a state is up to it's ears in debt. If it were a corporation, it would probably be in bankruptcy court by now.

 

[BoberFett]

It's worth noting that Romney's shit hole Massachusetts is ranked #1 most debt per person. Great leadership! That's a man who should run the country.

If only they had universal health care, they could save so much money...

 

[werepossum]

This train does show how even holy compromise can bang us in the butt. The proggies probably wanted a $250 billion bullet train between two major population centers and would have at least served some purpose, admittedly at horrendous cost. The conservatives probably wanted no bullet train. So as a compromise we get a $43 billion bullet train that serves little to no useful purpose and will probably cost $100 billion by the time it's an actual functioning bullet train to no where.

Of course, this is California, so it might be a compromise between proggies and reality rather than between proggies and conservatives . . .

 

[Ninjahedge]

No, it is Cali, so (we) will get a $100B bullet train that is Solar Powered.

That will still meander around, be built by China, and cost too much money to ride.

 

[werepossum]

No, it is Cali, so (we) will get a $100B bullet train that is Solar Powered.

That will still meander around, be built by China, and cost too much money to ride.

Rube: "Man, I can't wait to travel on this new green solar-powered train!"
Government conductor: "Um, it doesn't actually travel so much as just sit there. That's why we had to make buying tickets mandatory."

 

[Drako]

Woot, the ground breaking for this illegal Trillion Dollar boondogle has happened. I can't wait to ride a train from Fresno to Bakersfield in about 5 years.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...t-Bullet-Train-High-Speed-Rail-287651261.html

And LOL at "Bullet Train".

 

[Brainonska511]

Woot, the ground breaking for this illegal Trillion Dollar boondogle has happened. I can't wait to ride a train from Fresno to Bakersfield in about 5 years.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...t-Bullet-Train-High-Speed-Rail-287651261.html

And LOL at "Bullet Train".

Why describe it as 'illegal' and 'Trillion Dollar'? I see nothing supporting either set of adjectives.

And how else would you expect a large infrastructure project to start? It has to start being built somewhere if they chose to build it...

 

[theeedude]

Like any infrastructure project, people bellyache about how much it costs at the time.
In 20 years, they won't give a sh!t about the cost, and will wonder what morons were against it.

 

[Drako]

Why is it 'illegal'?

There was no private sector buy-in, as the plan called for. Apparently the private sector is smart enough to figure out this is a money pit.

 

[Slew Foot]

Like any infrastructure project, people bellyache about how much it costs at the time.
In 20 years, they won't give a sh!t about the cost, and will wonder what morons were against it.

In 20 years everyone will have a self driving google driven solar car and be laughing at the losers who have to take a train from Madera to Lodi.

 

[Drako]

Like any infrastructure project, people bellyache about how much it costs at the time.
In 20 years, they won't give a sh!t about the cost, and will wonder what morons were against it.

Indeed, California is in desperate need of a transit rail line between Fresno and Bakersfield. The people have been begging for it. :biggrin:

 

[Drako]

Why describe it as 'illegal' and 'Trillion Dollar'? I see nothing supporting either set of adjectives.

And how else would you expect a large infrastructure project to start? It has to start being built somewhere if they chose to build it...

Did you look at the projected budget figures for the LA to Sactown link? I'm guessing not.

 

[alcoholbob]

In 20 years everyone will have a self driving google driven solar car and be laughing at the losers who have to take a train from Madera to Lodi.

Sure, but they won't be in California.

 

[Brainonska511]

Did you look at the projected budget figures for the LA to Sactown link? I'm guessing not.

All I've seen is it would cost tens of billions of dollars. That's a far cry from "Trillion Dollar".

 

[dmcowen674]

Woot, the ground breaking for this illegal Trillion Dollar boondogle has happened. I can't wait to ride a train from Fresno to Bakersfield in about 5 years.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...t-Bullet-Train-High-Speed-Rail-287651261.html

And LOL at "Bullet Train".

Show where it is "illegal".

Japan and Europe must be running thousands of "illegal" railways.

 

[Drako]

All I've seen is it would cost tens of billions of dollars. That's a far cry from "Trillion Dollar".

OK, I exaggerated a bit there, but probably not. The last "projection" was for $100 billion. Look at the Bay Bridge as an example. You will be horrified if you value your tax dollar. California tax payers are getting reamed, plain and simple.

 

[theeedude]

Indeed, California is in desperate need of a transit rail line between Fresno and Bakersfield. The people have been begging for it. :biggrin:

SF to San Diego, buddy.
It's going to be great. You enjoy sitting in traffic telling everyone how much money you are "saved" by keeping your state stuck in the past.