The liberals $43 billion train to no where...

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Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,413
1,570
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Although critics have called plans to start construction with a 130-mile segment between Bakersfield and a rural area north of Fresno a "train to nowhere," the business plan sticks with that strateg

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/11/01/BAMK1LP9SQ.DTL#ixzz1camOILy1

seriously, has anyone thought this sht through?

There is NO WAY I'm taking a taxi to train station A, a train from station A to Bakersfield (or worse, a train from Station A to Union Station to Bakersfield), then HSR from Bakersfield to Fresno, and finally ANOTHER train from Fresno to SF....

...and doing the exact opposite on the way home
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,218
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bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
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0
bfdd, it is probably a mix of things.

But also, you have to realize that a HSR needs a lot of nice smooth almost strait rail to run on.

That works fine in the desert, but once you hit the area around San Fran with all its mountains, and you also hit a bunch of private property that you NEED to get through (regardless of eminent domain), the $$ starts to pile up....

true true, we probably can't run it the whole way. even if we could cover the majority with high speed and just some regular rail from the main city out to the hsr hub it would help. i would always be zipping across California if we had such a thing.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
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political-pictures-haters-gonna-hate.jpg
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
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91
We need an Oakland Bay Bridge. CA pays a hell of a lot more tax money than it takes in, at least you leeches can do is stop whining about us building bridges to let the workers you are leeching off get to work on time.

correction... a few wealthy corporations and residents pay a whole hell of a lot more tax money than it takes in. The bulk of California's residents leech off these tax donors as well. At least get that little detail correct. Unless I am mistaken and the median salary in California is upward of $300,000 or something.
 

Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,149
1
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HSR would be a definite improvement, but it is not an afterthought.

The only reason places like Japan have it is because of the heavy damage of some areas in WWII and the needed infrastructure redevelopment (and the different idea of government/community cooperation in this development...).

No matter how you look at it, this is not something that will be balanced out. It will be a paid-for luxury that WILL benefit us, but never as much as we pay for it.....

The irony being, looking 100 years from now, we may be saying the same thing we are now. "If we had done this back then when it was less costly...."
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
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LOL at the usual dimlib fail. I know, it's so hard to believe and couldn't possibly have been predicted by anyone (except every sane person in the world), but costs are predicted @ close to 100 billion now, with completion in 2033. That means the real costs and completion would be $200 billion and 2045 or so. Another fine display of dimlib thinking!
 

Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,149
1
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PG, like I said, do a 180 and look at how people are saying "if we built these rails back when blah blah blah...."

Agreed we are probably not going to get cheap Chinese (slave) labor on any new rail, but scorching the current cost on anticipation of the future is difficult.
this is a lose-lose situation where either way, we could end up screwing something up...


Maybe if "incentives" were offered (like they did on some projects in NJ) where finishing AHEAD of schedule would make it more profitable than dragging heels for X% longer, maybe then we would see more movement.

It DID work on a few highway projects, although the incentives were a bit high...
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Yeah but he hates California because of its politics and hope for its demise. A high speed rail is great infrastructure that will allow the state to grow even more. He hates this.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,100
27,856
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Train to no where? If I recall unlike Alaska a lot of people live both in LA and San Francisco.

I call shens on your title.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,413
1,570
126
Train to no where? If I recall unlike Alaska a lot of people live both in LA and San Francisco.

I call shens on your title.

too bad the train isn't starting at LA or San Francisco
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
too bad the train isn't starting at LA or San Francisco

from an engineering standpoint its probably best to start where they did. From a marketing stand points it does seem bad but what can you do?
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,413
1,570
126
from an engineering standpoint its probably best to start where they did. From a marketing stand points it does seem bad but what can you do?

scrap the project and start over cuz nobody is going to ride a train from bakersfield to fresno

There is NO WAY I'm taking a taxi to train station A, a train from station A to Bakersfield (or worse, a train from Station A to Union Station to Bakersfield), then HSR from Bakersfield to Fresno, and finally ANOTHER train from Fresno to SF....

...and doing the exact opposite on the way home
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
Billions on something americans can use? Horrific. Trillions on wars and occupations? Brilliant.

Nowhere= 2 major cities in the most populous state in the country...
 

Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,149
1
91
Shadow, it was of the UTMOST importance that we deposed the Despotic leader of an Evil nation (who we sponsored 10 years earlier) because of the threat he posed to the US!

I mean, look at what happened on 9-11!!!! I know he did not sponsor it, and that he actually was one of the SECULAR leaders in the middle east and all, but come ON!

He had a MUSTACHE! (And he was not walking in lock step with Bush and Co....). He HAD to go at the cost of 3000+ American lives and trillions of dollars to both our own military and hired mercenary groups!!!!!


A train? What the hell would we use that for? ;)
 

chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,633
263
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That among other reasons is why I don't expect it will be built now, as I indicated a number of posts back. The new business/construction plan is a disaster.

But the old business plan was dishonest as it had rosy budget projections i.e. did not factor in ANY inflation costs and pie in the sky passenger numbers that have since been constantly revised downward.

Train to no where? If I recall unlike Alaska a lot of people live both in LA and San Francisco.

I call shens on your title.

I agree on the misleading title. For the initial phase that will cost 6 billion dollars, they are only going to build tracks. NO stations or actual trains. This should read TRACKS to nowhere.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/dec/03/local/la-me-high-speed-route-20101203
 
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JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
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so they need to build track? Amazing. This is just the righties getting their panties in a bunch because a liberal state is getting .gov funding. All the tea party pork is good though.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
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Shadow, it was of the UTMOST importance that we deposed the Despotic leader of an Evil nation

Brilliant! We can simply point to some stupid action 10 years ago and justify a new stupid action, no matter how expensive or ill conceived. Good thinking. Have you considered running for office somewhere, you'd fit right in with most politicians.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Brilliant! We can simply point to some stupid action 10 years ago and justify a new stupid action, no matter how expensive or ill conceived. Good thinking. Have you considered running for office somewhere, you'd fit right in with most politicians.

shut your fat stupid face.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
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The big big problem with this is there were no exceptions made to expedite the project. They should have made every exception imaginable for it and wrote legislation which would put forth the steps to deal with any problems, like making a mess, that arise afterwards. We have way to much bureaucracy here in California.
 

Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,149
1
91
Brilliant! We can simply point to some stupid action 10 years ago and justify a new stupid action, no matter how expensive or ill conceived. Good thinking. Have you considered running for office somewhere, you'd fit right in with most politicians.

You like editing and taking out of context?

Doubly bad when done with a sarcastic remark.

Do you come here often?
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,513
24
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Ran across an article, so I thought I would update the thread. Personally, I like the idea of HSR when implemented on the right routes and where it financially makes sense. However, it appears this project in CA was mismanaged from the start, and reliant on projections that were extremely unlikely. Would like to hear from any in CA that are more familiar with this project especially.

“The great train robbery,” is what retired Judge Quentin Kopp called the new plan—and he, as state senator, co-authored the bill that created the first high-speed rail study.
But it gets even worse: turns out, operating costs are based on fantasy assumptions. The CHSRA plan assumes that it would cost 10 cents per passenger mile (the average cost of carrying one passenger one mile at a given load factor) when international high-speed rail systems averaged 43 cents per mile, according to a report that just surfaced. The low-cost leader was Italy with 34 cents per mile; at the upper end were Germany and Japan with 50 cents per mile; Amtrak’s Acela Express, though not truly high speed, was in the middle with 44 cents per mile. And in California, it’s going to be 10 cents per mile?
The CHSRA correctly assumes that train tickets compete with air fares and the cost of driving, which, despite our incessant complaints, are lower in California than overseas. Thus, the US market requires cheaper tickets. And to make the project appearprofitable, and thus more digestible for the taxpayer, the CHSRA lowered its projected operating costs to less than a quarter of the international average.
But if actual operating costs are 43 cents per mile and not 10 cents per mile, annual subsidies of $2 billion to $3 billion would be required just to keep the trains running, according to the report. Yet, AB3034, the California High-Speed Train Bond Act, makes these subsidies illegal. A conundrum that the Legislature, the Administration, and the CHSRA have so far successfully ignored.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-great-train-robbery-california-version-2012-5
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
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I'm about where you are on it - in favor of the idea, but not of a bad plan, and the article raises concering info. It'd be good to hear 'the other side'.

It sounds like the opposite of Chris Christy, where he killed project based on false info exaggerating the costs as an excuse to kill it.