The left's playbook on gun control exposed

[nehalem256]

If only we had an example where a geographically isolated country had inacted gun control policies and subsequently the rate of gun related homicides fell.

I wait, we do! Australia.

So you are arguing that if only the United States could be made into an island the left's policies would make sense?

^_^

 

[michal1980]

All most of us progressives want is

a) keep on working on ways to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them.

b) DO SOMETHING ABOUT ILLEGAL GUNS. Anyone caught with an illegal gun should serve mandatory jail time, and anyone selling or trafficking them should go to jail for life, first offense.

LOL. your just a fucking liar.

The progressives keep lowering the number of rounds guns can have. Keep raising ID bar on who can own guns [while at the same time bitching about the same for voter id].

The progressives keep labeling every gun a 'assault' rifle.

With the ultimate goal to ban weapons from private citizens.


But you keep living in your fairy tale land.

 

[BlueWolf47]

Australia is not the US. I haven't seen official stats, but lets say gun related homicides have fallen there...what has happened to the other crime rates? (rapes, burglaries, robberies and such). Law abiding citizens are now less able to defend themselves. If you actually could effectively control guns coming into the country (like you might be able to with an island), that's one thing, but in the US gun control laws are a double lose proposition. You're disarming those that follow the law, and at the same time you have absolutely no way of controlling the guns among criminals, with an endless supply of guns already available to them.

Lose lose proposition.

You should have stopped when you said i haven't seen the stats.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I feel bad for Australians as they don't have a Constitutional amendment that protects their right to own and bear arms.

 

[marvdmartian]

Any gun you're not legally allowed to possess is an illegal gun in my book.

How about we call it "illegal firearm possession" then? You know, the crime that we already have laws on the books for, but fail to adequately prosecute.

Don't come crying to gun owners about it, talk to the DA's and judges. Seems they're the ones NOT doing their jobs. :hmm:

 

[Fenixgoon]

I feel bad for Australians as they don't have a Constitutional amendment that protects their right to own and bear arms.

fine here's are several stats and/or facts:

Violent crime and firearm homicide have been dropping in the US for the last 20 years per the FBI's crime statistics

Even the most conservative estimate has put the number of legally owned firearms in the US at 200M. Confiscation would simply be impossible.

australia is an island, the US is not

American and Australian cultures are vastly different. Same.goes for any other western European county (UK for example)

The right to bear arms is protected (not granted) by the constitution of the united states. It is a RIGHT, not a privilege.

 

[Orignal Earl]

australia is an island, the US is not

Oz is considered a continent
A continent island if a person wants to get finiky about it
Greenland is considered the worlds largest island
Oz is the smallest continent

 

[DominionSeraph]

Why is it that when "conservitards" believe that voter fraud is more prevalent than reported we are treated like we are mentally defective yet liberals get to make effectively the same arguments about "illegal guns"?
Dominion I fully expect you to condemn Via like you do conservatives. Otherwise you are a hypocrite.

One is looking for an excuse to codify white privilege. The other is simply the expression of one aspect of a problem.

You do know that not all issues can be completely exposed in a sound bite, right? Try adding things up into a greater whole instead of trying to force them to reduce to conservative memes.

 

[MovingTarget]

Don't assume that this PR campaign is representative about how 'the left' views firearms. I'm sure if you look at any right-wing cause du jour you would find similar, if not more outrageous, PR campaigns to promote that issue. For the most part, those on the left and center of the political spectrum are strong supporters of the second amendment. I am one example. I own them, use them, and respect them. I believe that our current laws are overall okay, but there are some issues that need to be fixed.

The difference is that although we do value and respect firearms' role in our society, we don't bring it to the level of idolatry that the right does. It is okay to tweak and update our firearms regulations as we learn from our experience. Doing so does not solicit an immediate "OMGOBUMMERISCOMMINGFORYERGUNS!!!" reaction from us. An example of this type of reaction was the sharp rise in firearm and ammunition purchases right around the time of the elections, despite the fact that Obama hasn't effectively done or even proposed anything to tighten restrictions to an unacceptable level. I may not agree with what little he has proposed, but the right's reaction is wholly unjustified. Some common sense needs to be applied and we are at least willing to have the conversation instead of plugging our ears.

So yeah, you caught us. Our secret is out. We're coming to take your guns with jackboots and everything. Oogabooga!

 

[Fenixgoon]

Oz is considered a continent
A continent island if a person wants to get finiky about it
Greenland is considered the worlds largest island
Oz is the smallest continent

just because it's a continent doesn't mean it's not an island. After all, a square is also a rectangle.

 

[schneiderguy]

One is looking for an excuse to codify white privilege. The other is simply the expression of one aspect of a problem.

 

[Orignal Earl]

just because it's a continent doesn't mean it's not an island. After all, a square is also a rectangle.

But not all rectangles are squares

 

[MovingTarget]

just because it's a continent doesn't mean it's not an island. After all, a square is also a rectangle.

But not all rectangles are squares

I should have you two as guest speakers in my Geometry class.

 

[TerryMathews]

One is looking for an excuse to codify white privilege. The other is simply the expression of one aspect of a problem.

You do know that not all issues can be completely exposed in a sound bite, right? Try adding things up into a greater whole instead of trying to force them to reduce to conservative memes.

Both positions are lacking the backing of empirical evidence.

Hypocrite.

 

[Zaap]

You should have stopped when you said i haven't seen the stats.

Why? He's right. Let's take just the crime stats he listed:
Rape:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap-crime-rapes

Australia ranks #43 worldwide, the US ranks #57.

Rapes by victim:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_vic-crime-rape-victims
Australia #6 US #13

Property crime per capita among industrialized nations:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_pro_cri_vic-crime-property-victims

Australia is #2, US #7.

Robbery (victims):
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rob_vic-crime-robbery-victims

Australia #3, US #16.

Assault (victims):
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_ass_vic-crime-assault-victims

Australia #3, US #9.

Total crimes (victims):
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_vic-crime-total-victims
Australia #1, US #15.

According to this source: NationMaster compiles statistics from such sources as the CIA World Factbook, United Nations, World Health Organization, World Bank, World Resources Institute, UNESCO, UNICEF and OECD. (So take it up with those organizations if your kneejerk reaction is to shoot the messenger)

 

[Fenixgoon]

But not all rectangles are squares

indeed :thumbsup:

 

[Via]

Both positions are lacking the backing of empirical evidence.

Hypocrite.

Wow, your posts in this thread are ridiculous.

1) I do believe that voter fraud is prevalent, but on both sides. Do we really need to revisit 2000 and 2004?

2) empirical evidence? What are you babbling about? You actually believe that there is no evidence of illegal guns flooding America (and the world)?

 

[ivwshane]

Why? He's right. Let's take just the crime stats he listed:
Rape:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap-crime-rapes

Australia ranks #43 worldwide, the US ranks #57.

Rapes by victim:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_vic-crime-rape-victims
Australia #6 US #13

Property crime per capita among industrialized nations:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_pro_cri_vic-crime-property-victims

Australia is #2, US #7.

Robbery (victims):
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rob_vic-crime-robbery-victims

Australia #3, US #16.

Assault (victims):
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_ass_vic-crime-assault-victims

Australia #3, US #9.

Total crimes (victims):
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_vic-crime-total-victims
Australia #1, US #15.

According to this source: NationMaster compiles statistics from such sources as the CIA World Factbook, United Nations, World Health Organization, World Bank, World Resources Institute, UNESCO, UNICEF and OECD. (So take it up with those organizations if your kneejerk reaction is to shoot the messenger)

The problem with your post is that you are comparing a seemingly similar stat but they are not as crimes are not reported or counted in the same way between countries.

Now you may be able to make your point if you compare the historical figures for each country to see how the ban on guns had an impact versus no gun bans. But even still there are a lot of variables.

 

[TerryMathews]

Wow, your posts in this thread are ridiculous.

1) I do believe that voter fraud is prevalent, but on both sides. Do we really need to revisit 2000 and 2004?

2) empirical evidence? What are you babbling about? You actually believe that there is no evidence of illegal guns flooding America (and the world)?

Your problem is that you don't recognize that I am arguing the same position you are.

The person I quoted will often tell you there's no need for voter id laws because the incidents of it are statistically insignificant.

The same holds true for "illegal weapons".

They will accuse the right of following their feelings and not facts on voter id, yet are blind to the fact that they do the exact same thing with "illegal weapons".

A question to you, to demonstrate my point. What percentage of crimes committed with a weapon are committed with an illegal one?

 

[Zaap]

Now you may be able to make your point if you compare the historical figures for each country to see how the ban on guns had an impact versus no gun bans. But even still there are a lot of variables.

Don't ask me to do your homework for you. Get on it. Prove YOUR point.

 

[Agent11]

People who don't think the left is advocating seriously messed up gun laws needs to look up the various gun legislation that national activist groups pushed for in your own state. Seriously, look it up.

 

[BlueWolf47]

People who don't think the left is advocating seriously messed up gun laws needs to look up the various gun legislation that national activist groups pushed for in your own state. Seriously, look it up.

Those pesky universal background checks.

 

[TerryMathews]

Those pesky universal background checks.

Orly? So they were going to give everyone access to NICS?

No?

Then let's call it what it really was, a gun transfer tax. And what do we all know happens to taxes over time?

Also, if I'm not mistaken, Ms. Feinstein asked for a little more than universal background checks.

 

[ivwshane]

Don't ask me to do your homework for you. Get on it. Prove YOUR point.

Lol, your Jedi mind tricks don't work on me. Besides, my point was that you were wrong on how you used the stats. I could care less if you prove your point through other means, I just offered a different way you could make your point.

 

[Zodiark1593]

Don't assume that this PR campaign is representative about how 'the left' views firearms. I'm sure if you look at any right-wing cause du jour you would find similar, if not more outrageous, PR campaigns to promote that issue. For the most part, those on the left and center of the political spectrum are strong supporters of the second amendment. I am one example. I own them, use them, and respect them. I believe that our current laws are overall okay, but there are some issues that need to be fixed.

The difference is that although we do value and respect firearms' role in our society, we don't bring it to the level of idolatry that the right does. It is okay to tweak and update our firearms regulations as we learn from our experience. Doing so does not solicit an immediate "OMGOBUMMERISCOMMINGFORYERGUNS!!!" reaction from us. An example of this type of reaction was the sharp rise in firearm and ammunition purchases right around the time of the elections, despite the fact that Obama hasn't effectively done or even proposed anything to tighten restrictions to an unacceptable level. I may not agree with what little he has proposed, but the right's reaction is wholly unjustified. Some common sense needs to be applied and we are at least willing to have the conversation instead of plugging our ears.

So yeah, you caught us. Our secret is out. We're coming to take your guns with jackboots and everything. Oogabooga!

Oh noes, logic, we can't have that in a gun debate. :hmm:

As far as overreaction, have you tried to buy .22 LRs lately? Ever since some more notable shootings, supplies dropped, and prices skyrocketed ($7.00 for a box of 50, Federal brand). My local gunstore says that it's usually the first couple customers that buy them all up. I dislike both extremist nutters equally for interfering with my own hobby.