The Lack of a Musical Component to the Anti-War Movement

[Starbuck1975]

People like to make Iraq out as being really bad, but if you look at the cold hard numbers this "war" isn't anything like Vietnam.

The lack of a draft probably has a lot to do with it as well.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

People like to make Iraq out as being really bad, but if you look at the cold hard numbers this "war" isn't anything like Vietnam.

The lack of a draft probably has a lot to do with it as well.

But there are other factors that make it worse. In a time when we are trying to prevent the spread of terrorism and the fanatical muslim anti-US movement in general, attacking, invading, and occupying Iraq was a horrible idea.

Even so, the moto, "Iraq. It's not as bad as Vietnam," doesn't make it right.

 

[shadow9d9]

Roger Waters is there for both Britain and the U.S.

 

[BoomerD]

And it's one, two, three, what are we fighting for?

Don't ask me, I don't give a jack

Next stop is Vietraq...

and it's five, six, seven, open up the pearly gates,

Now, their ain't no time to wonder why, WHOOPEE 72 virgins are gonna die...


Just doesn't have the same ring as the original...

 

[Icepick]

Green Day put out an entire album criticizing American tolerance of the idiocy of the modern American political landscape called "American Idiot." I think this is an example of a modern rock band speaking it's mind in protest.

The problem is that large conglomerates own a lot of radio stations and so control the playlists. ClearChannel owns a large percentage of the radio stations in my area which, is why many are incredibly boring. Whenever a music act expresses an opinion they get black listed and their songs don't get played. We need more artists like Green Day, U2, Neil Young who aren't afraid.

I remember a year or two ago there was a story on NPR of how Neil Young was trying to rally modern artists to speak out against the war and was having difficulty.

This brings to mind a line by Jack Black in the movie, "Almost Famous" where he told the kid that a battle had been fought between artists and music corporations and the corporations have won.

 

[ProfJohn]

1. 3500 dead verse 58,000 dead, big difference.
2. No draft so this war has virtually no effect on peoples daily lives.
3. Most anti-war music came from the folk singers and those influenced by them and that genre is totally dead right now.

I also believe that people better understand the reasons behind this war. 9-11 showed us what happens if we don?t confront terrorism. I think the general discontent with the war has more to do with the outcome than the reasons behind the war. Despite the cries of ?war for oil? and ?war based on lies? that we hear on here I don?t think most Americans buy into that, they just see 3500 dead and four years and want it to end.

 

[theeedude]

People afraid of getting Dixie Chicked, don't want to give up the redneck audiences still supporting Bush and Iraq war.
But yeah, no draft is the real reason. Americans don't really care about Iraq enough to listen to anti-war music.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
1. 3500 dead verse 58,000 dead, big difference.
2. No draft so this war has virtually no effect on peoples daily lives.
3. Most anti-war music came from the folk singers and those influenced by them and that genre is totally dead right now.

I also believe that people better understand the reasons behind this war. 9-11 showed us what happens if we don?t confront terrorism. I think the general discontent with the war has more to do with the outcome than the reasons behind the war. Despite the cries of ?war for oil? and ?war based on lies? that we hear on here I don?t think most Americans buy into that, they just see 3500 dead and four years and want it to end.

Tell us again what the war in Iraq has to do with 9-11? The administration has admitted that Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11, yet some of you on the right keep trying to link them in subtle ways. AFAIK, there were no terrorists in Iraq until Georgie-boy blew the country up and removed the strong-man who had kept the country in check...Now, (thanks to Georgie) the country seems to be a terrorist training ground...with actual targets instead of blowing up sand dunes.

I agree that with no draft, the averge person in America really doesn't care about Iraq, other than "It's a terrible war"...We are not asked to sacrifice anything, there's no rationing to support the troops, no War Bonds being sold everywhere, nothing to make the citizenry a part of the effort in anyway. It seems like it's more "We know what we're doing...Trust us." Which has turned into a real cluster-fck...

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: ProfJohn
1. 3500 dead verse 58,000 dead, big difference.
2. No draft so this war has virtually no effect on peoples daily lives.
3. Most anti-war music came from the folk singers and those influenced by them and that genre is totally dead right now.

I also believe that people better understand the reasons behind this war. 9-11 showed us what happens if we don?t confront terrorism. I think the general discontent with the war has more to do with the outcome than the reasons behind the war. Despite the cries of ?war for oil? and ?war based on lies? that we hear on here I don?t think most Americans buy into that, they just see 3500 dead and four years and want it to end.</end quote></div>

Tell us again what the war in Iraq has to do with 9-11? The administration has admitted that Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11, yet some of you on the right keep trying to link them in subtle ways. AFAIK, there were no terrorists in Iraq until Georgie-boy blew the country up and removed the strong-man who had kept the country in check...Now, (thanks to Georgie) the country seems to be a terrorist training ground...with actual targets instead of blowing up sand dunes.

I agree that with no draft, the averge person in America really doesn't care about Iraq, other than "It's a terrible war"...We are not asked to sacrifice anything, there's no rationing to support the troops, no War Bonds being sold everywhere, nothing to make the citizenry a part of the effort in anyway. It seems like it's more "We know what we're doing...Trust us." Which has turned into a real cluster-fck...

Tell me what Germany had to do with Pearl Harbor...

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: BoomerD
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: ProfJohn
1. 3500 dead verse 58,000 dead, big difference.
2. No draft so this war has virtually no effect on peoples daily lives.
3. Most anti-war music came from the folk singers and those influenced by them and that genre is totally dead right now.

I also believe that people better understand the reasons behind this war. 9-11 showed us what happens if we don?t confront terrorism. I think the general discontent with the war has more to do with the outcome than the reasons behind the war. Despite the cries of ?war for oil? and ?war based on lies? that we hear on here I don?t think most Americans buy into that, they just see 3500 dead and four years and want it to end.</end quote></div>

Tell us again what the war in Iraq has to do with 9-11? The administration has admitted that Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11, yet some of you on the right keep trying to link them in subtle ways. AFAIK, there were no terrorists in Iraq until Georgie-boy blew the country up and removed the strong-man who had kept the country in check...Now, (thanks to Georgie) the country seems to be a terrorist training ground...with actual targets instead of blowing up sand dunes.

I agree that with no draft, the averge person in America really doesn't care about Iraq, other than "It's a terrible war"...We are not asked to sacrifice anything, there's no rationing to support the troops, no War Bonds being sold everywhere, nothing to make the citizenry a part of the effort in anyway. It seems like it's more "We know what we're doing...Trust us." Which has turned into a real cluster-fck...</end quote></div>
Tell me what Germany had to do with Pearl Harbor...

It declared war on us after Pearl Harbor.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Roger Waters is there for both Britain and the U.S.

Yup. Been to a few of his shows, and he gets quite political. But he's not as well know, at least not as much as he should be.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: senseamp
It declared war on us after Pearl Harbor.

Let me think?
Tried to shot down American planes
Tried to kill an ex-President
Supported terrorist groups who attacked our allies
The only thing they didn?t do was actually declare war against us.

Furthermore, Germany was virtually no threat to us at all; they had no navy that could attack us unlike Japan. And yet we made defeating Germany our main goal in WW 2. We did this because in the bigger scheme of things Germany was the greater threat to world peace and prosperity. Just like in the grand scheme of things Iraq was a threat to peace and had the potential to become a far greater threat if it shared its chemical weapon knowledge with terrorists.

BTW when did the Taliban declare war against us? How about Bosnia? Somalia?
Do we have to wait until we are attacked before taking action?
If Bush had gone into office in 2001 and said we are going to remove the Taliban from Afghanistan because of their support of AQ and because the obvious threat that existed via AQ as shown in the Cole bombing I am sure people like you would have objected.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: senseamp
It declared war on us after Pearl Harbor. </end quote></div>
Let me think?
Tried to shot down American planes
Tried to kill an ex-President
Supported terrorist groups who attacked our allies
The only thing they didn?t do was actually declare war against us.

Furthermore, Germany was virtually no threat to us at all; they had no navy that could attack us unlike Japan. And yet we made defeating Germany our main goal in WW 2. We did this because in the bigger scheme of things Germany was the greater threat to world peace and prosperity. Just like in the grand scheme of things Iraq was a threat to peace and had the potential to become a far greater threat if it shared its chemical weapon knowledge with terrorists.

BTW when did the Taliban declare war against us? How about Bosnia? Somalia?
Do we have to wait until we are attacked before taking action?
If Bush had gone into office in 2001 and said we are going to remove the Taliban from Afghanistan because of their support of AQ and because the obvious threat that existed via AQ as shown in the Cole bombing I am sure people like you would have objected.

You mean the way people like you did during Clinton's administration? Look at how the Repubs howled "Wag the Dog" everytime Clinton went after OBL, or took out one of the Iraqi's radar installations...EVERYTHING Clinton did was derided by the Repubs as an attempt to divert attention from the Monica scandal...is your memory really that short? Is it the 2nd shortest thing about you? 😉

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
You mean the way people like you did during Clinton's administration? Look at how the Repubs howled "Wag the Dog" everytime Clinton went after OBL, or took out one of the Iraqi's radar installations...EVERYTHING Clinton did was derided by the Repubs as an attempt to divert attention from the Monica scandal...is your memory really that short? Is it the 2nd shortest thing about you? 😉

Let me think...
Kosovo 1999: 78 days, 1000 air craft, 38,004 sorties, something like 30,000 bombs dropped.
Afhganistan 1998 (in reply to the embassy bombings): 75 cruise missiles

Why did the Kosovo War result in a massive campaign when no Americans died or were even attacked there, meanwhile a direct attack on two US embassies results in a grand total of 75 cruise missiles.
Do the math, we dropped 400 times as much stuff on Bosnia as we did Afghanistan... :roll:

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: PrevaricatorJohn
Furthermore, Germany was virtually no threat to us at all; they had no navy that could attack us unlike Japan.

PrevaricatorJohn -- As usual, you're so wrong on both the facts and your conclusions. :roll:

Axis plans for invasion of the United States during WWII

The Axis plans for invasion of the United States during WWII were a series of plans for strategic long-range strikes and invasion of the United States of America by German, Japanese and Italian forces.
.
.
German-planned Invasion of the United States

Before the winter of 1941, Germany appeared to be moving toward a swift victory over the Soviet Union in Operation Barbarossa. Alfred Rosenberg, Reich Comissaire for Eastern Affairs, was ordered to print the motto "Deutsche Weltreich" (German World Empire),[citation needed] and Hitler made known his intention of further conquest following victory over Russia. These plans appeared to include an invasion of the United States.

In Autumn of 1940, the attack on the US was fixed for the long-term future. This appears in Luftwaffe (German airforce) documents, one of which dated October 29, 1940 mentions the "extraordinary interest of Mein Führer in the occupation of the Atlantic Islands. In line with this interest...with the cooperation of Spain is the seizure of Gibraltar and Spanish and Portuguese islands, along other operations in the North Atlantic."

In July 1941, the Führer ordered the continued planning for an attack against the United States. Five months later, on December 11, 1941 Germany declared war on the United States.

Operation Barbarossa was alleged by some to be a testing ground for an invasion of America. Another alleged German invasion plan was "Operation Felix", in conjunction with Spain, which called for obtaining control of Atlantic islands and seas to launch long-range strikes and an eventual invasion of America.
.
.
Strategic lines to supposed American invasion

Operation Felix (Fall Felix) and Operation Sealion, planned the occupation of Ireland and Operation Ikarus, would have provided some support bases for installing the Wehrmacht and Kriegsmarine infantry seaborne or Luftwaffe Airborne forces for the invasion.

These units, with proper support from the Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe, were to capture coastal areas in Maine, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, New Jersey and Delaware.

On the other hand, the invasion could have come from airborne landings on the Atlantic coast of Canada in the Northwest Territories, Quebec, Newfoundland, New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island, with the army then continuing into U.S territory. The Saint Lawrence River was also considered to be a major possible entry point into North America. Another option involved launching seaborne rockets, long range missiles or aerial bombardments, against U.S. territory. The Germans were also considering the development and use of an atomic bomb against the United States.

Air strikes with heavy long range bombers would have not only put the coastal targets of New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Washington, D.C., Boston, and New York within range, but also targets in Ohio and even Indiana.

Operations supposedly related to the planned invasion

German forces sent agents to Greenland to install a base for secret operations in the area that would have been supported by the use of a radio station in Saint Pierre and on Miquelon island, under the administration of Vichy France.

The planned German invasion would also have been supported by German submarine missions to the Atlantic coast and Caribbean areas, with submarines such as U-134, U-853 and others. The Germans had plans to use submarines with V-1/V-2 Launchers against American coasts. They also intended to use special mobile launchers from French coastal areas for launching one ultra long-range multi-stage V-4 "Rheinbote" missile or other similar type was planned.

Another maritime tactic would have been maritime reconnaissance flights by German flying boats Blohm und Voss Bv 222 C-0 "Wiking" from France and Norway to the north and central Atlantic area to watch Iceland, Greenland, England, and the Canadian and United States coasts.

There was also a Kriegsmarine or Luftwaffe attack against the Panama Canal, a U.S. territory at the time. The former would use submarines to strike the Atlantic side of the Canal. The latter would send a squadron of ultra long-range bombers from France to North Africa, before continuing to South America in support of a neutral country.

More on German military plans against the U.S. Atlantic coast:

Battle of the Atlantic
.
.
In May 1941, the British captured an intact Enigma machine, which greatly assisted in breaking German codes and allowed for plotting convoy routes which evaded U-boat positions. In the summer of 1941, the Soviet Union entered the war on the side of the Allies, but they lost much of their equipment and manufacturing base in the first few weeks following the German invasion. The Western Allies attempted to remedy this by sending Arctic convoys, which faced constant harassment from German forces. In September, many of the U-boats operating in the Atlantic were ordered to the Mediterranean to block British supply routes. When the United States entered the war that December, they did not take precautionary anti-submarine measures; this resulted in shipping losses so great that the German's referred to it as a second happy time.

Are you goint to tell us that "second happy time" was a beer and polka fest? :shocked:

The second happy time was a phase in the Second Battle of the Atlantic during which Axis submarines attacked merchant shipping along the east coast of North America. It lasted from January 1942 to about August of that year. German submariners named it the happy time or the golden time as defence measures were weak and disorganised, and the U-boats were able to inflict massive damage with little risk. During the second happy time, Axis submarines sank 609 ships totaling 3.1 million tons for the loss of only 22 U-boats. This was roughly one quarter of all shipping sunk by U-boats during the entire Second World War, and constituted by far the most serious defeat ever suffered by the US Navy.
.
.

Are you really that ignorant or that stupid? Or, like your Traitor In Chief, do you just lie and make stuff up in a vain attempt to cover up how blatantly WRONG you are? :roll:

 

[Harvey]

And getting back to the topic of "The Lack of a Musical Component to the Anti-War Movement," at the risk of tooting my own horn, or, in this case, my own tune on the subject...

• Who's Watching Over Who's Watching Over You?
  • 
    Words and Music by Harvey Rubens
    Copyright © 2006

[/list]I see men looking over their shoulder,
Running hard just trying to stay alive,
And they say that it's gonna get colder before it gets better.

At the time of the crime, who believed us?
We all took a fall on the ride,
When the powers that be had deceived us to leave us the debtor.

• And Who's Watching Over Who's Watching Over You?
  Tell me who's telling you what to do what to do?

All the forces of war were compelling,
And blacker than Colin, the Knight,
And the lies that they're telling, they sell in the name of their savior.

And they silence the voices arising,
From those who would show us the light.
With their guys with their spies in the skies watching you and your neighbor.

• And Who's Watching Over Who's Watching Over You?
  Tell me who's telling you what to do what to do?

Tell me who's telling you what to do what to do?[/list]I see men who are trying to squeeze us,
And taking whatever they can,
While they buy those who try to appease us with scraps from their table.

It gets harder each day to break even.
This wasn't a part of my plan.
Time is right to be fighting or leaving this tower of Babel.

• And Who's Watching Over Who's Watching Over You?
  Tell me who's telling you what to do what to do?

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Tell me what Germany had to do with Pearl Harbor...

From the American standpoint, nothing except that the Japanese and Germans were allies. Remember, we kind of antagonized Germany into attacking us by shipping goods to the British in US Merchant ships...which the German U-boats sunk...
Then, there was the Lend-Lease thing...in which we choose sides against Germany...
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWlendlease.htm

Germany declared war on the USA 4 days after Pearl Harbor...

We also antagonized the Japanese into war. The U.S. enacted an embargo on all oil supplies to Japan. The reason for the embargo is because Japan was invading China. The U.S. embargo cut-off 90% of Japans resources, which crippled their economy and most importantly military. They didn't specifically want to go to war, they just wanted to cripple the United States so they could bring them to the bargaining table to negotiate expansion into Asia. Unfortuantely, the Japanese didn't understand the United States way of thinking, which was "You bomb us, you declare war, and we pulverize you." On the Japanese side of the equation, it was simply a misunderstanding about how to negotiate terms with the Americans.




So...once again...what does Iraq have to do with 9-11?

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
So...once again...what does Iraq have to do with 9-11?

I know you won't believe any Republican reasons for going to war with Iraq so I'll post the reasons why some Democrats voted for it. These are all 2002 quotes. Below you have the 2000 Democrat VP candidate, the 2004 President and VP candidate and the current majority leader in the Senate.

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." - John Kerry
"Others argue that if even our allies support us, we should not support this resolution because confronting Iraq now would undermine the long-term fight against terrorist groups like Al Qaeda. Yet, I believe that this is not an either-or choice. Our national security requires us to do both, and we can." - John Edwards
"It is the duty of any president, in the final analysis, to defend this nation and dispel the security threat. Saddam Hussein has brought military action upon himself by refusing for 12 years to comply with the mandates of the United Nations. The brave and capable men and women of our armed forces and those who are with us will quickly, I know, remove him once and for all as a threat to his neighbors, to the world, and to his own people, and I support their doing so." - John Kerry
"We stopped the fighting [in 1991] on an agreement that Iraq would take steps to assure the world that it would not engage in further aggression and that it would destroy its weapons of mass destruction. It has refused to take those steps. That refusal constitutes a breach of the armistice which renders it void and justifies resumption of the armed conflict." - Harry Reid
"[W]e have evidence of meetings between Iraqi officials and leaders of al Qaeda, and testimony that Iraqi agents helped train al Qaeda operatives to use chemical and biological weapons. We also know that al Qaeda leaders have been, and are now, harbored in Iraq.

Having reached the conclusion I have about the clear and present danger Saddam represents to the U.S., I want to give the president a limited but strong mandate to act against Saddam." Joe Lieberman

And just so you are sure why we are doing this I post this Al Qaeda message for you to think about
"We have not reached parity with them. We have the right to kill 4 million Americans -- 2 million of them children -- and to exile twice as many and wound and cripple hundreds of thousands. Furthermore, it is our right to fight them with chemical and biological weapons, so as to afflict them with the fatal maladies that have afflicted the Muslims because of the [Americans'] chemical and biological weapons."

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Harvey
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: PrevaricatorJohn
Furthermore, Germany was virtually no threat to us at all; they had no navy that could attack us unlike Japan.</end quote></div>
PrevaricatorJohn -- As usual, you're so wrong on both the facts and your conclusions. :roll:

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Axis plans for invasion of the United States during WWII

The Axis plans for invasion of the United States during WWII were a series of plans for strategic long-range strikes and invasion of the United States of America by German, Japanese and Italian forces.
.
.
German-planned Invasion of the United States

Before the winter of 1941, Germany appeared to be moving toward a swift victory over the Soviet Union in Operation Barbarossa. Alfred Rosenberg, Reich Comissaire for Eastern Affairs, was ordered to print the motto "Deutsche Weltreich" (German World Empire),[citation needed] and Hitler made known his intention of further conquest following victory over Russia. These plans appeared to include an invasion of the United States.

In Autumn of 1940, the attack on the US was fixed for the long-term future. This appears in Luftwaffe (German airforce) documents, one of which dated October 29, 1940 mentions the "extraordinary interest of Mein Führer in the occupation of the Atlantic Islands. In line with this interest...with the cooperation of Spain is the seizure of Gibraltar and Spanish and Portuguese islands, along other operations in the North Atlantic."

In July 1941, the Führer ordered the continued planning for an attack against the United States. Five months later, on December 11, 1941 Germany declared war on the United States.

Operation Barbarossa was alleged by some to be a testing ground for an invasion of America. Another alleged German invasion plan was "Operation Felix", in conjunction with Spain, which called for obtaining control of Atlantic islands and seas to launch long-range strikes and an eventual invasion of America.
.
.
Strategic lines to supposed American invasion

Operation Felix (Fall Felix) and Operation Sealion, planned the occupation of Ireland and Operation Ikarus, would have provided some support bases for installing the Wehrmacht and Kriegsmarine infantry seaborne or Luftwaffe Airborne forces for the invasion.

These units, with proper support from the Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe, were to capture coastal areas in Maine, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, New Jersey and Delaware.

On the other hand, the invasion could have come from airborne landings on the Atlantic coast of Canada in the Northwest Territories, Quebec, Newfoundland, New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island, with the army then continuing into U.S territory. The Saint Lawrence River was also considered to be a major possible entry point into North America. Another option involved launching seaborne rockets, long range missiles or aerial bombardments, against U.S. territory. The Germans were also considering the development and use of an atomic bomb against the United States.

Air strikes with heavy long range bombers would have not only put the coastal targets of New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Washington, D.C., Boston, and New York within range, but also targets in Ohio and even Indiana.

Operations supposedly related to the planned invasion

German forces sent agents to Greenland to install a base for secret operations in the area that would have been supported by the use of a radio station in Saint Pierre and on Miquelon island, under the administration of Vichy France.

The planned German invasion would also have been supported by German submarine missions to the Atlantic coast and Caribbean areas, with submarines such as U-134, U-853 and others. The Germans had plans to use submarines with V-1/V-2 Launchers against American coasts. They also intended to use special mobile launchers from French coastal areas for launching one ultra long-range multi-stage V-4 "Rheinbote" missile or other similar type was planned.

Another maritime tactic would have been maritime reconnaissance flights by German flying boats Blohm und Voss Bv 222 C-0 "Wiking" from France and Norway to the north and central Atlantic area to watch Iceland, Greenland, England, and the Canadian and United States coasts.

There was also a Kriegsmarine or Luftwaffe attack against the Panama Canal, a U.S. territory at the time. The former would use submarines to strike the Atlantic side of the Canal. The latter would send a squadron of ultra long-range bombers from France to North Africa, before continuing to South America in support of a neutral country.</end quote></div>

No references or sources cited for your wiki page on the invasion of the United States. Are you seriously trying to use this piece as proof that Germany was a threat to the United States? For starters this thing appears to be premised on the fact that operation Sealion was successful. Something Hitler abandoned nearly 15 months before Pearl Harbor. Kind of hard to invade the United States when Great Britain is still in tact and you have no long rage bomber capability. You may also notice in this great piece of speculation Hitlers long range bomber program never came close to production.

 

[Deudalus]

What risk Harvey?

You quote that silly song in 99% of your posts from what I gather and you actually copyrighted it as if someone was going to steal it? Please don't make me laugh. That's one problem is that the vast majority of today's musicians are even more narcissistic than yourself which is saying something.


The reason that there isn't a musical component to the anti-war movement is three fold.

A) Because alot of the musicians are just as self absorbed as you are Harvey. They think their fame and fortune is in fact a sign of intelligence which it absolutely is not. There is no reasoning. There is no middle ground. There is no discussion. There is simply MTV, MTV's beliefs, and how could you not think like people on MTV? Don't you know that they are famous?

B) Because they simply aren't respectable. How many Americans really have something in common with Greenday? What about System of a Down? What about Tool? How many people above the age of 18 really admire, respect, or idolize any of these people? Now contrast that to how many people look up to Arlo Guthrie, Bob Dylan, etc. Those artists were from middle america and could relate to middle america. They weren't out of touch and never lost their roots. I don't think any of today's artists have one inkling of connection to the average american.

C) Because they choose a political party. Bono gets respect because he doesn't choose a side, he is simply trying to accomplish his goals which are very noble. The same thing with the majority of artists from the 60's. They weren't out campaigning for either party, they just wanted us out of Vietnam. When you join a side you isolate the other side.

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: ayabe
Frankly most of the music scene today just isn't very serious, it's either complete bubblegum crap, or the same old stuff about ho's and bling from the rap crowd.

I wouldn't exactly call Year Zero a bore, it's Trent's first real attempt to deal with issues outside of himself and I think it's pretty good.

I would love to see someone like Kanye West of Nas put some focus on the current state of things. You know a lot of inner city black kids are fighting too, not just farm boys from small towns in Nebraska.

so true. I stopped listening to rap music in 1997. Kanye is kinda funny though, i will never forget him say "George bush doesnt care about black people" live on the air. And just like the janet jackson superbowl nipple sun ring...............I called my friend and said "Did that just happen?"

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: Harvey
And getting back to the topic of "The Lack of a Musical Component to the Anti-War Movement," at the risk of tooting my own horn, or, in this case, my own tune on the subject...

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>

• Who's Watching Over Who's Watching Over You?
  • 
    Words and Music by Harvey Rubens
    Copyright © 2006

[/list]I see men looking over their shoulder,
Running hard just trying to stay alive,
And they say that it's gonna get colder before it gets better.

At the time of the crime, who believed us?
We all took a fall on the ride,
When the powers that be had deceived us to leave us the debtor.

• And Who's Watching Over Who's Watching Over You?
  Tell me who's telling you what to do what to do?

All the forces of war were compelling,
And blacker than Colin, the Knight,
And the lies that they're telling, they sell in the name of their savior.

And they silence the voices arising,
From those who would show us the light.
With their guys with their spies in the skies watching you and your neighbor.

• And Who's Watching Over Who's Watching Over You?
  Tell me who's telling you what to do what to do?

Tell me who's telling you what to do what to do?[/list]I see men who are trying to squeeze us,
And taking whatever they can,
While they buy those who try to appease us with scraps from their table.

It gets harder each day to break even.
This wasn't a part of my plan.
Time is right to be fighting or leaving this tower of Babel.

• And Who's Watching Over Who's Watching Over You?
  Tell me who's telling you what to do what to do?

</end quote></div>

LOL! I was waiting for this post! Good one Harvey! LOL!

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Genx87
No references or sources cited for your wiki page on the invasion of the United States. Are you seriously trying to use this piece as proof that Germany was a threat to the United States?

Either you're joking, or you slept through every history class before you failed fourth grade. Are you seriously trying to use outright denial that Hitler and WWII didn't exist? :roll:

Are you one of those sick perverts who also deny that the existence of the nazi concentration camps and the holocaust? :shocked:

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Harvey
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Genx87
No references or sources cited for your wiki page on the invasion of the United States. Are you seriously trying to use this piece as proof that Germany was a threat to the United States?</end quote></div>
Either you're joking, or you slept through every history class before you failed fourth grade. Are you seriously trying to use outright denial that Hitler and WWII didn't exist? :roll:

Are you one of those sick perverts who also deny that the existence of the nazi concentration camps and the holocaust? :shocked:

That isnt what I was asking, I was asking if you are seriously using an undocumented wiki entry as proof of Hitlers threat to the United States.

But it is little surprise when faced with a real question you quickly run for cover and pull out the anti-semite card along with the childish remark about education. This is a tactic of a child and you use it perfectly.

 

[azazyel]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
System of a Down has a few anti-war songs.

And the Beastie Boys and A Perfect Circle.