The joy of religion - part xxxxxxxxx

[buckshot24]

God chooses that thing to happen.

Based on what? God having the knowledge of something happening isn't choosing it to happen. Simply a non sequitur.

 

[WelshBloke]

hahahahaaaa that is so funny and wrong....rofl!!

Quote fail?

Although I don't disagree with the quote, it just wasn't me that said it.

 

[buckshot24]

Quote fail?

Although I don't disagree with the quote, it just wasn't me that said it.

I concur. It was me.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Based on what? God having the knowledge of something happening isn't choosing it to happen. Simply a non sequitur.

It's because you nutty religious folk believe that he knew in advance what he was getting when he chose to create precisely this universe out of the infinitely many he could have created. It follows necessarily that he chose the totality of events that would transpire in that universe.

But you don't listen to legitimate criticism, because like most theists you are not interested in the truth.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Not the case. There are example after example where this isn't the case.

It is nonsensical to suggest that anything happens in contravention to the will of an omnipotent being. I know it says differently in the Bible, and that's how we know the Bible is wrong.

 

[JD50]

Based on what? God having the knowledge of something happening isn't choosing it to happen. Simply a non sequitur.

It is if he created it, and/or if he's omnipotent.

 

[Omar F1]

The thing is Allah/Yahweh/Jehovah/El/Eloheim/God/The Holy Father/The Lord/Etc., isn't merciful. He's not forgiving. He's made that abundantly clear; he's a monster.

Are so sure, because I might been already cursed, punished and probably in the hell right now if that was the case; for my very long endless list of sins.

In the Quran, it states that Yahweh decided the majority of people in hell should be nagging wives. That is very much a retarded manifestation of psycopathy.

Honestly I'm not aware of presence of such passage in Quran.
However, there is one particular Hadith in which the Prophet seen the women as the most kind who passed to hell, and he ordered them with charity to purge their sins.

Never mind all the rape, slavery and slaughter. This is some testing ground? Nope; it's all predetermined. The repeated rape, torture and 'accidental' death of Junko Furuta? All according to Yahweh's will.

Well, that is exactly why he gave us, alone from every other creature, the precious ability to think freely for ourselves (slightly restricted by religious orders). He gifted us with our minds to bear such huge responsibility to acknowledge him first, then be held accountable later for our actions. He did so, and ordered us very clearly to resist the urge inside ourselves to commit awful or sinful deeds.

It's well known (to us at least), that God is much willing to forgive sins which are considered a matter between him and us (like ignoring prayers/fastening), rather than moral commitments between the people themselves (like rape, thievery or killing).

Creating the both environment and the circumstances which allows or facilitates such behavior from our side doesn't mean he accepts that at all or would neglect to held us accountable for it.
As a matter of fact, a lot of stories were reported of those whom received their punishment in this life, right before they're be punished again in the next one.

The repeated rape and torture of Josef Fritzel's daughter, by the father himself, over a preiod of, what, twenty years? All according to Yahweh's will.

That is one out of billions of other "unfair" incidents in this life.
That is the randomized creation/luck I was talking about, for which the victim is ordered to persevere in a promise for endless perfect life, while those who seems lucky enough must thank every then and know, and that is a clear example of required obedience to the God.

And people continue to worship this deity, and make all sorts of lies to hide their disgusting reverence for this, thankfully fictional, being of evil given literary form

Totally different points of views, results from slightly different mentality and observation in this life. The persisting issue, however, that I can see and understand your view while you never understood mine 🙂

 

[FelixDeCat]

Atheists are the nutty ones, denying God even exists in the first place.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

What is this "god" that you mention? Is it any different than Santa Claus or the Easter bunny?

 

[Victorian Gray]

I think that we can loosely define rape in this instance to be forced sex, yes?

Is it appropriate to apply human concepts such as consent and issues of self awareness and degrees of sentience to animals other than humans?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Atheists are the nutty ones, denying God even exists in the first place.

Which 'God' would that be? Thor? Zeus? Allah? Ganesh?

 

[WelshBloke]

Is it appropriate to apply human concepts such as consent and issues of self awareness and degrees of sentience to animals other than humans?

I agree but it seemed an obvious point that he was making. It would have been a bit petty to be that picky.

 

[MajinCry]

Are so sure, because I might been already cursed, punished and probably in the hell right now if that was the case; for my very long endless list of sins.

Remember all those commandments, on pain of death if you break them? Or the verses commanding rape and slaughter?

Honestly I'm not aware of presence of such passage in Quran.
However, there is one particular Hadith in which the Prophet seen the women as the most kind who passed to hell, and he ordered them with charity to purge their sins.

How convenient.

Not too certain how best to quote the Quran (with the Bible, you quote "Book Chapter:verse#-verse#"), so I'll post a link to the passage.

http://islamqa.info/en/21457

Well, that is exactly why he gave us, alone from every other creature, the precious ability to think freely for ourselves (slightly restricted by religious orders).

Wrong.

Proverbs 16:9 - "The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps. "

Jeremiah 34:7 - "I form the light, and create darkness. I create good, and I create evil. I, the Lord, do all these things."

He gifted us with our minds to bear such huge responsibility to acknowledge him first, then be held accountable later for our actions. He did so, and ordered us very clearly to resist the urge inside ourselves to commit awful or sinful deeds.

"Commit awful or sinful deeds" That's contradictory. Not killing a rape victim that did not have her cries heard in a city, is a sin; to do so, is to break the commandment from Deuteronomy 22:23-24.

To kill said rape victim, however, is an 'awful' (term you're looking for is evil) deed.

So, in other words, you're saying that you shall go to hell for doing as Yahweh commands, as he commands evil. But you shall also go to hell for disobeying Yahweh's commands, as to do so is to sin.

It's well known (to us at least), that God is much willing to forgive sins which are considered a matter between him and us (like ignoring prayers/fastening), rather than moral commitments between the people themselves (like rape, thievery or killing).

Wrong. Rape, thievery and killing is something he adores. This has been covered several times already.

For example:

2 Samuel 12:11-14
Deuteronomy 21:10-14
Judges 5:30
Zechariah 14:1-2
Deuteronomy 20:10-14
Numbers 31:7-1
Judges 21:10-24

Creating the both environment and the circumstances which allows or facilitates such behavior from our side doesn't mean he accepts that at all or would neglect to held us accountable for it.

Nothing goes against Yahweh's will, as has been outlined plainly before. Therefore, we're just automatons that move by his hand. Which is silly, but you have to believe it if you believe in Yahweh. There's no way around it.

As a matter of fact, a lot of stories were reported of those whom received their punishment in this life, right before they're be punished again in the next one.

So Yahweh made them do these acts, punished them for him making them do these acts, then sent them to hell for doing the acts he made them do.

How merciful.

That is one out of billions of other "unfair" incidents in this life.
That is the randomized creation/luck I was talking about, for which the victim is ordered to persevere in a promise for endless perfect life, while those who seems lucky enough must thank every then and know, and that is a clear example of required obedience to the God.

So people should suffer, so that they can get a better lot in the next round?

Fuck off.

Totally different points of views, results from slightly different mentality and observation in this life. The persisting issue, however, that I can see and understand your view while you never understood mine 🙂

Understand my view? You've not read the past five pages of this thread. You've repeated what the other fingers-in-ears lads have argued.

And I do indeed understand your position. You're being dishonest in regards to what you believe, to shy away from admitting your immoral for worshiping the most evil of deities to have been thought up by man.


Bloody hell, I've yet to see a pro-religious argument, in this thread, that has not been covered by Christopher Hitchens. You Abrahamics should go watch a few of his debates; save us the trouble of going over the same, tired arguments over and over again.

 

[bshole]

Atheists are the nutty ones, denying God even exists in the first place.

If he manifested himself in any way, that would change in a heartbeat. The sad fact of the matter is that there is as much evidence for God as there is for Santa Claus. Why are people nutty for their non-acceptance of entities who do not reveal themselves in the physical world? That is a serious question.

Here is another serious question. The evidence of all Gods and all religions is exactly equal. How do you know your God is the right one? You cannot use physical evidence to prove you have the right one because you have none. You can not prove those other religions are wrong because they use the same bedrock of faith sans evidence that your religion does. Does that not scare you? What are the chances that you selected the one religion that God actually created? How do you even know that God has created salvation for any of humanity? Because you want it? What makes you think God gives a shit about what you want?

 

[FelixDeCat]

If he manifested himself in any way, that would change in a heartbeat. The sad fact of the matter is that there is as much evidence for God as there is for Santa Claus.

Well "Santa Claus" is based on St. Nicholas, a Catholic saint and follower of the teachings of Jesus, who was the son of God. It does not get more manifest than that. ()🙂

 

[WelshBloke]

Well "Santa Claus" is based on St. Nicholas, a Catholic saint and follower of the teachings of Jesus, who was the son of God. It does not get more manifest than that. ()🙂

When you're using Santa Claus to prove the existence of your god then it's probably time to admit that religion isn't for you.

 

[FelixDeCat]

:roll:

 

[FelixDeCat]

When you're using Santa Claus to prove the existence of your god then it's probably time to admit that religion isn't for you.

But here he is, St. Nicholas:

If you cannot believe your eyes, what can you believe?

 

[WelshBloke]

But here he is, St. Nicholas:

If you cannot believe your eyes, what can you believe?

Fail.

I'm seeing no reindeer or sleigh.

 

[JD50]

But here he is, St. Nicholas:

If you cannot believe your eyes, what can you believe?

Good point. You've convinced me that Jesus was real too.

 

[MongGrel]

The circle of never ending religious argument continues...

Go fetch a Grail 😛

 

[Victorian Gray]

I agree but it seemed an obvious point that he was making. It would have been a bit petty to be that picky.

I dunno, I think it's a dishonest question from the get go.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Well "Santa Claus" is based on St. Nicholas, a Catholic saint and follower of the teachings of Jesus, who was the son of God. It does not get more manifest than that. ()🙂

As a concept, the character owes at least as much to pagan Germanic religion as it does to Christianity. Just like the concept of Christmas came from pagan beliefs and practices being combined with Christianity. It was a recruiting trick.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Hmm...Felix, we have some historical references to what others believed was god but we are unable to tell based on your posting history over the last 183 months on Anandtech that you are referring to the one true God.

Wait, no, actually we do. We are just being sarcastic because it as part of an atheist's repertoire. 😱

You will refer to God in the future, and we will still be sarcastic.

We are childish.

We are atheist.

Someone here *is* being childish.

To Omar, his god is the one true god. To my next door neighbour (a Hindu) his gods are the many true gods. A thousand years ago Sigurd's gods were the many true gods. That's not sarcasm, that's a set of facts.

I'll leave it for you guys to figure out whose god is going to win while I just get on with living my life.

 

[buckshot24]

It is if he created it, and/or if he's omnipotent.

Allowing something to happen is not the same thing as choosing it to happen.