The joy of religion - part xxxxxxxxx

[flexy]

But the question reminds though: if there is no god (i.e. creator), then who on earth created that magnificent, extremely complicated yet limitlessly diversified creation that is called human.


Can we relax, have a clear thought, then think about the inside organs and functions of our own bodies? "As also in your own selves: Will ye not then see?"

Ok, this is maybe my opportunity to give an example about what evolution is.

* There is an island that is often battled by heavy storms
* To this island, at some point, all sorts of plant seeds have gotten to, say carried by birds, by wind...or drifting on the water (like coconuts etc.)
* At some point, all those various plants started to grow.
* However, since the island is constantly battled by storms, only plants that have strong roots survive those storms.
* Everything else, plants with weak roots, are getting ripped off the ground from the storms
* In time, you will find that on this island, (only) such plants exist and grow that are exceptionally suited to this harsh environment.

* Has a godly being designed this that way? How comes that all the plants on that island are suited to survive the storms? THERE MUST BE DESIGN BEHIND IT. There is no other explanation....

*** Another idea I like is the idea of an aquarium where you "throw in" a bunch of plants and all sorts of animals, fish, insects, mammals even. Not all of them can actually swim or can live in water. The aquarium is enclosed, it's a self-sustaining system without external inputs.

* You leave this "system" alone for...some months.

* You come back after a month and check the environment in the aquarium. Obviously there won't be monkeys or mice swimming around and neither will normal flowers grow in the water. The animals who survived are all those animals who are suited to live in water, fish, plankton, underwater bugs etc.

* The plants you find left and which are still alive are underwater plants which can grow under water, obviously.

* The entire system, this aquarium, could in time adjust itself so that plants grow which live from what the animals excrete, and it's also highly likely that the animals which manage to survive in the system in-turn are feeding off the plants. There could also be plankton or algae growing which is food for the animals.

* In time, you will notice that the entire "system" is "perfect". There is no unlogical/unlikely things happening like animals surviving that cannot even live in water, or plants growing which cannot even grow in water.

THERE IS NO OTHER POSSIBLE OUTCOME.

Has a godly entity designed this? Someone must have "created" and designed this because there is no other, logical explanation? See what I am saying here?

 

[Zorkorist]

You are overthinking it.

You, are the closest thing to God, that there ever will be.

Make yourself great, and don't worry about others, religion, etc.

-John

 

[realibrad]

hahahahaa no way...rofl...OMG he pulled the evolution card....rofl...hahahaaaa...help me, I am laughing so hard I cannot get up...rofl.,......hahahaaa

Wow, you really blew my argument out of the water.

I can't believe that in this thread, Moonie and Rob have both been far more respectful than you by a long shot. They at least explained why they thought I was wrong, where as you come in and bring nothing.

 

[JD50]

hahahahaa no way...rofl...OMG he pulled the evolution card....rofl...hahahaaaa...help me, I am laughing so hard I cannot get up...rofl.,......hahahaaa

If you have evidence that falsifies the theory of evolution you would win a Nobel prize. Please present your evidence.

 

[JEDIYoda]

If you have evidence that falsifies the theory of evolution you would win a Nobel prize. Please present your evidence.

hahahaaaaa....gotta Love the people who ask for evidence against something, but can`t post irrefutable evidence that it happened!!!

Your turn....

 

[JD50]

hahahaaaaa....gotta Love the people who ask for evidence against something, but can`t post irrefutable evidence that it happened!!!

Your turn....

Since you apparently don't understand how to use the Internet, I would strongly encourage you to visit the Smithsonian Natural History museum the next time you're near Washington DC. They have a wonderful exhibit that even you would understand, my 5 year old loved it. Or... maybe they're in on the conspiracy too, who knows.

http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence

 

[realibrad]

hahahaaaaa....gotta Love the people who ask for evidence against something, but can`t post irrefutable evidence that it happened!!!

Your turn....

What would you consider valid evidence?

There are about 200 species of wild potato. From the time the western world has recorded potato history, we have grown around 5,000 varieties. How were we able to invent different types of potato? We are not potato gods, thats for sure.

We used artificial selection. Humans did what evolution does but much faster.

Just so we are clear, evolution does not mean that one day a horse had a duck for a baby. Evolution is the slow subtle changes in species through natural selection of beneficial traits that given enough time can change said species to the point where they become a different species from the original lineage.

But, do let me know what you would consider evidence.

 

[OverVolt]

What would you consider valid evidence?

There are about 200 species of wild potato. From the time the western world has recorded potato history, we have grown around 5,000 varieties. How were we able to invent different types of potato? We are not potato gods, thats for sure.

We used artificial selection. Humans did what evolution does but much faster.

Just so we are clear, evolution does not mean that one day a horse had a duck for a baby. Evolution is the slow subtle changes in species through natural selection of beneficial traits that given enough time can change said species to the point where they become a different species from the original lineage.

But, do let me know what you would consider evidence.

Potatoes don't exactly mate because the purple variety has sexy antioxidants and large spuds.

We're great at identifying traits and then pollinating selectively. They can't do that on their own.

 

[Moonbeam]

Potatoes don't exactly mate because the purple variety has sexy antioxidants and large spuds.

We're great at identifying traits and then pollinating selectively. They can't do that on their own.

Of course they can and do. It's called natural selection.

 

[realibrad]

Potatoes don't exactly mate because the purple variety has sexy antioxidants and large spuds.

We're great at identifying traits and then pollinating selectively. They can't do that on their own.

If a plant is better able to survive a cold year and produce more pollen, they it will be more likely to mate. The trait that allowed it to produce more pollen will likely be passed on.

 

[soulcougher73]

Poor Jedi. Doesnt understand how evolution works. Must be a elementary school drop out or something. Sad.

 

[Moonbeam]

If a plant is better able to survive a cold year and produce more pollen, they it will be more likely to mate. The trait that allowed it to produce more pollen will likely be passed on.

Jesus, no no no no no. This is only true if the environment the plant lives in exposes it to killing cold years and its method of reproduction is facilitated by having more pollen. The trait will not likely be passed on if it is pollenated by a warm weather dependent moth, for example since if it were already more cold tolerant than the pollinator, no selective advantage would go to the plants until the insect evolves cold tolerance greater than the plants.

 

[MongGrel]

hahahaaaaa....gotta Love the people who ask for evidence against something, but can`t post irrefutable evidence that it happened!!!

Your turn....

I need to back track in this thread to catch up on it to even post sensibly I imagine.

But that made little sense at all right there.

 

[Omar F1]

Evolution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEKyqIJkuDQ

Ok, this is maybe my opportunity to give an example about what evolution is.
...............

Has a godly entity designed this? Someone must have "created" and designed this because there is no other, logical explanation? See what I am saying here?

I take it as a theory. It's about a group of scientists' best guess over that subject, hard facts yet remain to be seen.


I don't believe the human has ever evolved at all, that is my understanding and best guess while looking back into our known human history.
He was created as a human from the start, nothing out of the pro-evolution theorists did ever convince me otherwise.

But I'd like to ask those scientists though: Why it was only one creature, out of thousands of similar kinds, that has survived the natural selection stage and evolved into a fully freely-thinking-mindset creature. Why one, why not two, three, one hundred kind perhaps? a human peer that might have lived under the sea or else high into the skies? I can't emphasize that point enough.

 

[Omar F1]

Since you apparently don't understand how to use the Internet, I would strongly encourage you to visit the Smithsonian Natural History museum the next time you're near Washington DC. They have a wonderful exhibit that even you would understand, my 5 year old loved it. Or... maybe they're in on the conspiracy too, who knows.

http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence

I'd consider it as mere speculation from their side.
I've taken a look over fossils pictures. Ok, different sized skulls and feet sizes, so what? it's in our belief since 1,400-years ago that Adam was 90-feet long, I'm hardly surprised at all from such discovery.

Point is, could they possibly prove out that their fossils had a noticeably different organs/body-systems than those post-stone age human beings.

 

[MongGrel]

I take it as a theory. It's about a group of scientists' best guess over that subject, hard facts yet remain to be seen.

Sorry, I have to on this one.

It is just theory, of course.

 

[Chaosblade02]

The burden of proof lay with the ones making the claims. Not the ones denying them due to lack of evidence. Which means the burden of proof isn't on Atheists to prove God/s don't exist, but is on the believers to prove they do.

 

[disappoint]

The burden of proof lay with the ones making the claims. Not the ones denying them due to lack of evidence. Which means the burden of proof isn't on Atheists to prove God/s don't exist, but is on the believers to prove they do.

And they call you the crazy one?

 

[Omar F1]

Sorry, I have to on this one.

It is just theory, of course.

I think.....you've just destroyed any remaining evidence to support that theory.

 

[disappoint]

Speaking of the joys of religion isn't it heartwarming to see some religions practiced in modern times still hold rape as a virtue?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...orced-men-watch-wives-raped-article-1.2381086

The polygamist Mormon sect led by an imprisoned child rapist banned its men from fathering children and instead forced them to watch as their wives were raped by “seed bearers” — church members with “worthy bloodlines.”

The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints — which is led by Warren Jeffs, who is serving a life sentence for sexually assaulting his child brides — engaged in “ritualistic procreation” after it forbade husbands and wives from touching each other, according to court documents and a private investigator.

Sam Brower — a private investigator who wrote “Prophet’s Prey,” a best-selling book about the church — said the no-contact rule was so strict, a couple wasn’t even allowed to shake hands. Any form of contact, from sex to a hug, could be considered adultery under church rules, he told CNN.

Jeff’s estranged sister-in-law Charlene Jeffs first described the roles of FLDS “seed bearers” and the sect’s ceremonial rape in a child custody petition earlier this year. Church elders selected each “bearer,” who is deemed to have “a worthy bloodline,” she wrote...

 

[shira]

hahahaaaaa....gotta Love the people who ask for evidence against something, but can`t post irrefutable evidence that it happened!!!

Your turn....

There's no "irrefutable" evidence for ANY scientific theory.

But there's plenty of strong evidence, including intermediate forms going back hundreds of million of years, to support the theory of evolution.

In comparison, the evidence YOU have to support "intelligent design" is exactly . . . nothing.

 

[bshole]

There's no "irrefutable" evidence for ANY scientific theory.

But there's plenty of strong evidence, including intermediate forms going back hundreds of million of years, to support the theory of evolution.

In comparison, the evidence YOU have to support "intelligent design" is exactly . . . nothing.

Not nothing, there are books that say God(s) did it. For all we know, God is a prankster who forged the fossil record to fuck with our heads. He then allowed micro-evolution to further confuse us. The fossil record is a really really convincing argument for evolution or divine forgery.

 

[realibrad]

Sorry, I was away for a wedding.

Jesus, no no no no no. This is only true if the environment the plant lives in exposes it to killing cold years and its method of reproduction is facilitated by having more pollen. The trait will not likely be passed on if it is pollenated by a warm weather dependent moth, for example since if it were already more cold tolerant than the pollinator, no selective advantage would go to the plants until the insect evolves cold tolerance greater than the plants.

No. If the plants die off during the cold spell, then they would not be able to reproduce. You could even have a situation where the plant that is able to handle the cold snap would produce less pollen vs a normal plant of that type, but, if it was the only strain to survive it would pass on its genes.

Evolution means that traits in the short run are passed on. Evolution does not look down the line as it has no foresight. If a trait is good now, it will give the organism an advantage and it should out breed the others making its beneficial gene get passed on. Not always are these things good from a 3rd party view. An example of this would be the elephant seal males. They are competing with other males and the biggest wins the breeding lotto. Their lives are short and they dont last long because the traits that make them better fighters also make them have shorter lives.

Another great example is the laryngeal nerve, but I have to go to a meeting.

 

[shira]

You are overthinking it.

You, are the closest thing to God, that there ever will be.

Make yourself great, and don't worry about others, religion, etc.

-John

We totally agree on the bolded point, given that everything is "closest" to something that doesn't exist.

 

[shira]

Jesus, no no no no no. This is only true if the environment the plant lives in exposes it to killing cold years and its method of reproduction is facilitated by having more pollen. The trait will not likely be passed on if it is pollenated by a warm weather dependent moth, for example since if it were already more cold tolerant than the pollinator, no selective advantage would go to the plants until the insect evolves cold tolerance greater than the plants.

The problem with your explanation, accurate as it is, is that it involves two compound sentences that discuss five different but related concepts. It's inconceivable that any person denying the existence of overwhelming physical evidence that supports the theory of evolution could even parse those two sentences, let alone comprehend their import.

Baby steps when dealing with babies. Baby steps. And for goodness' sake, don't invoke the name of Jesus; that's slam-dunk guaranteed to halt all thought.