The Iraqi Refugee Who Duped America

[BBond]

Saddam's rape rooms, torture, murder...OMG, please make him stop!

SUCKERS...

The American Dream

In all of Iraq, Jumana Hanna was the bravest witness to the horror of Saddam's regime, telling the Americans of torture, rape, and mass murder. In Washington, Hanna became a potent symbol of Iraqi liberation, and the Bush administration brought Hanna and her children to the United States for their protection. Then the author discovered the really horrible truth.

...

THE STORY OF HANNA'S sufferings won the hearts and minds of the Americans in Baghdad. Grateful for her cooperation in identifying her attackers?several of whom were then being considered for important positions in the new government?the Coalition Provisional Authority bestowed medallions of honor on Hanna. Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz toured Loose Dogs Prison and testified about her before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. "Her courage in coming forward to offer U. S. officials what is very likely credible information," he said, would help the coalition "root out" Baathist killers. Her story became a defining parable in Washington of a world gone mad, in which dictators had been given license to terrorize their people without consequence. But all that was changing now, as strongmen always fall, and Hanna was left standing to write the history of the horror. Her story became a favorite in particular among conservatives. The blogs spread the word; one, Townhall.com, proclaimed it "justification alone for Bush's Operation Iraqi Freedom."

...

What had at first been a nagging suspicion that Hanna was capable of exaggeration had become, after a month spent with her and reporting her story, a crippling doubt. Iraq, the context for her amazing story, was an astonishment of human cruelty. That is why her story was so terribly believable. She was telling a larger truth. And the American government, out of sincere altruism or rank political opportunism, responded to this truth. Even if it wasn't her truth. Even if it was, in fact, a mirage. Even if she was, after all, a liar.

...

Far from being a story about the indomitability of the human spirit, Hanna's tale now seemed to open a window on the coalition's naivete?the willingness of its leaders to believe almost anything that fit their agenda.

 

[jpeyton]

Beautiful

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Beautiful

They let their ideology blind them. They fit reality to its needs. Either they are very easily duped or they are complicit in the fraud. No matter, they are either criminally stupid or criminally dishonest.

Remember the one about Saddam and the incubators??? LOL

When contemplating war, beware of babies in incubators

 

[cwjerome]

Hmmm, never heard of her. What were you saying about blinded by ideology? Familiar territory for you, I'm sure...

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Hmmm, never heard of her.

Well, if you never heard of her surely she must not exist.

What were you saying about blinded by ideology? Familiar territory for you, I'm sure...

Not as illustrated in this story. So why don't you post a story where I'm duped by some fraud taking advantage of my blind ideological stupidity. Otherwise, you're statement is as believable as Jumana Hanna's. Just keep on making it all up as you go along. Fantasy Island.

De Plane! De Plane!

:roll:

 

[her209]

Shhhhhhh... 😉

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Hmmm, never heard of her.

Well, if you never heard of her surely she must not exist.

What were you saying about blinded by ideology? Familiar territory for you, I'm sure...

Not as illustrated in this story. So why don't you post a story where I'm duped by some fraud taking advantage of my blind ideological stupidity. Otherwise, you're statement is as believable as Jumana Hanna's. Just keep on making it all up as you go along. Fantasy Island.

De Plane! De Plane!

:roll:

Did I suggest she doesn't exist? You certainly love to invent tangents- gotta fit everything into your nice ideologically-correct black and white box don't ya? Sorry, I think you missed the point bud. Talk about fitting reality to your needs... you just extrapolated a complete condemnation of tens of millions of people based on one person lying. Proud? Goebbels' would be.

And one doesn't have to be "duped" to expose his/her blind ideological stupidity. Just do an author search under your name...

 

[Excelsior]

Wait..what is the point here..that some woman lied about her past?

Do people now believe that Saddam's regime didn't torture/kill his people, etc? You have got to be kidding me.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Wait..what is the point here..that some woman lied about her past?

Do people now believe that Saddam's regime didn't torture/kill his people, etc? You have got to be kidding me.

She's also the one that fabricated the films of the Kurds and puppies being gassed, single-handedly invaded Iran & Kuwait, tortured Iraqi athletes, ejected the UN inspectors, and broke every other term of the '91 UN ceasefire. Saddam meanwhile was bouncing poor crippled children on his knee, handing out lollipops to little girls, and making sure every orphan had a home. Please.

Theres PLENTY of hard evidence that Saddam is a monster that has nothing to do with this woman, and its readily available to anyone with internet access or a library card who cares about the truth rather than just swallowing the "party line" like a good little robot. I'm sorry, but the fact that Bush is an idiot doesn't make Saddam a saint. I wish we weren't over there, but I'm certainly not sorry that this fvcking butcher was caught cowering in a hole like a dumb animal.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Wait..what is the point here..that some woman lied about her past?

Do people now believe that Saddam's regime didn't torture/kill his people, etc? You have got to be kidding me.

I would wager that Bob is not kidding...

 

[digiram]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Wait..what is the point here..that some woman lied about her past?

Do people now believe that Saddam's regime didn't torture/kill his people, etc? You have got to be kidding me.

single-handedly invaded Iran & Kuwait

Please, We were Saddam's homies durring the Iraq/Iran war, and there're rumors of the US giving the green light to Saddam on the Kuwait invasion.

 

[BBond]

The point is this, the Bush administration has a history of being used by liars to further all of their agendas. From Chalabi to the story about the incubators to the woman in this story. Tell the Bush administration what it wants to hear and you're in.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Wait..what is the point here..that some woman lied about her past?

Do people now believe that Saddam's regime didn't torture/kill his people, etc? You have got to be kidding me.

She's also the one that fabricated the films of the Kurds and puppies being gassed, single-handedly invaded Iran & Kuwait, tortured Iraqi athletes, ejected the UN inspectors, and broke every other term of the '91 UN ceasefire. Saddam meanwhile was bouncing poor crippled children on his knee, handing out lollipops to little girls, and making sure every orphan had a home. Please.

Theres PLENTY of hard evidence that Saddam is a monster that has nothing to do with this woman, and its readily available to anyone with internet access or a library card who cares about the truth rather than just swallowing the "party line" like a good little robot. I'm sorry, but the fact that Bush is an idiot doesn't make Saddam a saint. I wish we weren't over there, but I'm certainly not sorry that this fvcking butcher was caught cowering in a hole like a dumb animal.

:thumbsup:

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: digiram

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Wait..what is the point here..that some woman lied about her past?

Do people now believe that Saddam's regime didn't torture/kill his people, etc? You have got to be kidding me.

single-handedly invaded Iran & Kuwait

Please, We were Saddam's homies durring the Iraq/Iran war, and there're rumors of the US giving the green light to Saddam on the Kuwait invasion.

Holy sh!t...you did not just say that there are rumors the US gave the green light to Saddam to invade Kuwait. If you for one moment actually believe that is possible...end your life.

 

[ECUHITMAN]

I talked to a lady the other day that said we didn't land on the moon. That it was all staged in some Hollywood studio.

Conspiracy theories are so much fun to talk about and are so vague that it becomes almost believable.

To tell you the truth, I gave up reading the article from Esquire after about page 3. I do not get the point. This woman may have made up most of what happened to her, but it did happen to others. Although I have not scene any video of saddam or his people doing what she said, I have read reports of videos that have been found.

Look I was in favor of the Iraq war when there was a treat of WMD's, now I feel dumb for not questioning the fairly weak reason to go to war. I know that what we have done in Iraq will one day be good, and we cannot leave until we provide at least basic security for the people. Even if what this woman said is NOT true, in the end the Iraqi people will one day (maybe 10 years from now) be better off. BTW, had Bush come on TV and said we are going to invade Iraq because of what this woman said, I would have been against it (we have no business invading a country just because it has a horrible leader we could help the people rebel against the government, but an out and out invasion is not warranted). But now that we are there, we must make sure that something like this does not happen again.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: digiram

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Wait..what is the point here..that some woman lied about her past?

Do people now believe that Saddam's regime didn't torture/kill his people, etc? You have got to be kidding me.

single-handedly invaded Iran & Kuwait

Please, We were Saddam's homies durring the Iraq/Iran war, and there're rumors of the US giving the green light to Saddam on the Kuwait invasion.

Holy sh!t...you did not just say that there are rumors the US gave the green light to Saddam to invade Kuwait. If you for one moment actually believe that is possible...end your life.

US Ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie

There are other sources on the internet with a transcript of the meeting.

IRAQ and Ambassador April Glaspie

PS I find it incredibly offensive that you would request that someone end their life because you disagree with them, especially when it appears the facts are on their side.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: digiram
Please, We were Saddam's homies durring the Iraq/Iran war, and there're rumors of the US giving the green light to Saddam on the Kuwait invasion.

Holy sh!t...you did not just say that there are rumors the US gave the green light to Saddam to invade Kuwait. If you for one moment actually believe that is possible...end your life.

It's an often-touted opinion with minimal basis. With Hussein's aims in the Middle East becoming apparent (hegemony of the entire region), as Iraqi units maneuvered into position the United States and Britain did not want to scare Saddam out of invasion lest it deprive them of a solid foundation to seek the political will of the rest of the world to counter that madman.

PBS interviews General Wafic Al Samarrai, Head of Iraqi Military Intelligence:

Q: A U.S. green light.....?

Samarrai: I am not convinced that the USA was the party that gave Saddam the green light to go ahead in his plans but, on the other hand, I am convinced that the USA did not take a decisive and tough line to deter Saddam from doing this invasion.

The indications were very clear. They had the ability to deter Saddam. For instance, there was no ultimatum or warning issued in public or in secret that could deter Saddam.

The US reaction was very weak, cold. Because, despite the fact that American satellites were monitoring the movements of the Iraqi forces, and it was clear to them that there was massive army build-up, the USA did not issue a warning to Saddam Hussein. This really raised a big question mark.

Q: View of the US military....

Samarrai: He thought that the US troops were not ready enough to engage in land battle. He thought that the lesson of Vietnam was very harsh on the US administration. We used to ask him "Do you think that the Americans will launch a campaign?" He used to say "Perhaps they attack and perhaps they will not".

At the intelligence circles we were absolutely sure that they will launch an attack. He really was quite comfortable with his ideas and he started to boost the morale of his men and we heard him on the air saying that his Iraqi soldiers will break Bush's teeth.

Much more telling, PBS interviews Tariq Aziz, Foreign Minister of Iraq:

Q: So you knew from the beginning that America was likely to take action?

Aziz: Yes, we had no illusions about that. We thought that attacking them in Kuwait would change the balance in our favor because Kuwait was still being used against us. Why not attack that which was being used against us? That could change the balance of power, at least slightly for our favor.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: digiram

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Wait..what is the point here..that some woman lied about her past?

Do people now believe that Saddam's regime didn't torture/kill his people, etc? You have got to be kidding me.

single-handedly invaded Iran & Kuwait

Please, We were Saddam's homies durring the Iraq/Iran war, and there're rumors of the US giving the green light to Saddam on the Kuwait invasion.

We sided with him against Iran for a reason. They stormed our embassy and held 60 Americans hostage for over a year; during the crisis, Iraq invaded Iran. The USSR, our mortal enemy at the time, immediately halted all arms sales to Iraq, which made it appear that they favored Iran. So we were faced with a Gulf country holding American hostages and supported by the USSR, and another Gulf state attacked them. Now you honestly tell me, what Western country in the same situation, while "officially" remaining neutral, would NOT sell arms to Iraq? To claim otherwise is just lying, since many Western countries continued to sell arms to Iraq even after he was ejected from Kuwait and subject to the terms of the UN ceasefire.

As for Kuwait, certain facts are still ignored by the Western media. The truth was very simple: Saddam borrowed billions from Saudi Arabia and Kuwait to fight Iran. When the war ended, he demanded that they forgive the debts. When they refused, he invaded Kuwait on the charge that it was part of Iraq, and threatened Saudi Arabia with the same (which is why they were on our side and let us have bases there-they were next).

And by the way, Glaspie told the Senate that what she meant by "We have no opinion on your border disagreement with Kuwait", is that the US wouldn't force a settlement in a border dispute between 2 FRIENDLY countries. She went on to say that she'd "repeatedly warned Iraqi President Saddam Hussein against using force to settle his dispute with Kuwait", and that Saddam lied to her by denying he would invade Kuwait. When the Senate asked how he could've misintrepreted her statements, she replied, "We foolishly did not realize he was that stupid." Immediately thereafter, she was shuttled off to a harmless appointment at the UN, which clearly shows the administration DID NOT approve of the mess she'd made. So its not accurate to claim that the "US gave Saddam a green light", because thats simply not what happened.

 

[BBond]

That's not the way the transcript reads.

This is just another case of a politician saying one thing then restating their meaning after the horrific consequences of their blunder become apparent.