The Internets Teach How to become an Atheist

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
347
126
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS1icEssOUM

I find some of his arguments easily dismissed, a few of his parodies speak to a slightly deeper truth: That there are times when no one knows the answer, and to pretend that 'science' somehow does answer those things turns non-theism against itself logically.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Sometimes we need to just admit that we do not know all the answers!
Because we do not know all the answers is no reason do say that since science doesn`t know then I will not have any faith or hope in a god......
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,791
6,350
126
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS1icEssOUM

I find some of his arguments easily dismissed, a few of his parodies speak to a slightly deeper truth: That there are times when no one knows the answer, and to pretend that 'science' somehow does answer those things turns non-theism against itself logically.

To pretend that Science knows something that is not part of Known things is certainly illogical. To pretend that Religion Knows things about what can't be observed is also Illogical.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,466
3,067
121
Pretty lame in general I'd say.

I watched about 7 seconds of it an looked so staged amount of bullshit I turned it off.

He isn't preaching science.

What a joke.
 
Last edited:

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
347
126
To pretend that Science knows something that is not part of Known things is certainly illogical. To pretend that Religion Knows things about what can't be observed is also Illogical.

I agree. But only Religion has an internally-consistent method of dealing with the illogical: which is why Atheism/non-Thiesm really isn't a "religion". But I'm saying that, on occasion, people get a 'religious like' fervor and take the arguments further than logic would allow: would you agree?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,791
6,350
126
I agree. But only Religion has an internally-consistent method of dealing with the illogical: which is why Atheism/non-Thiesm really isn't a "religion". But I'm saying that, on occasion, people get a 'religious like' fervor and take the arguments further than logic would allow: would you agree?

Sure.
 

Caravaggio

Senior member
Aug 3, 2013
508
1
0
The video was infantile drivel. It portrayed atheists as stupid transsexuals with squeaky voices. It was a desperate schoolboy satire of 'straw man' ideas the actor could not comprehend.

... But only Religion has an internally-consistent method of dealing with the illogical....

Which religion do you have in mind when you make that assertion?

The Abrahamic faiths are famously inconsistent both within and between adherent groups.

Take women drivers, for instance. Saudi Wahabis and Hassidic Jews both condemn female drivers as " immodest". Other sects within these faith groups have more liberal positions and "allow" women to drive. How generous of them!

Muslims and Hassidic Jews forbid pre-stunning of animals before slaughter while most Christians favour it.
Hassidic Jews dislike Islam with the same feral intensity with which most Islamic groups regard Judaism. Yet they all revere Abraham as a founding father and both regard evolution as an abomination.

Consistency? Please, there are adults present.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
347
126
The video was infantile drivel. It portrayed atheists as stupid transsexuals with squeaky voices. It was a desperate schoolboy satire of 'straw man' ideas the actor could not comprehend.



Which religion do you have in mind when you make that assertion?

The Abrahamic faiths are famously inconsistent both within and between adherent groups.

Take women drivers, for instance. Saudi Wahabis and Hassidic Jews both condemn female drivers as " immodest". Other sects within these faith groups have more liberal positions and "allow" women to drive. How generous of them!

Muslims and Hassidic Jews forbid pre-stunning of animals before slaughter while most Christians favour it.
Hassidic Jews dislike Islam with the same feral intensity with which most Islamic groups regard Judaism. Yet they all revere Abraham as a founding father and both regard evolution as an abomination.
So are you arguing that because there are different faiths, and sects within each faith, that none of these groups hold to an internally consistent set of beliefs about the logically un-knowable?
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
347
126
sandorski: Good conversation.

MongGrel: Love CERN, the great thing about science is it tells us when it is likely that we've mis-interpreted the universe.


Along those lines, I will agree that any set of beliefs that requires you accept internally inconsistent ideas is, itself, unstable. But I'd say that it's the individual reflecting on their interaction with a faith-base that leads to such.

That is: Everything requires interpretation, when the individual is confronted with an something that is inconsistent when they internalize it they should move beyond that line of thinking.

However, that individuals interpret things differently does not mean that the 'religion' is necessarily internally inconsistent.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,768
6,770
126
sandorski: Good conversation.

MongGrel: Love CERN, the great thing about science is it tells us when it is likely that we've mis-interpreted the universe.



Along those lines, I will agree that any set of beliefs that requires you accept internally inconsistent ideas is, itself, unstable. But I'd say that it's the individual reflecting on their interaction with a faith-base that leads to such.

That is: Everything requires interpretation, when the individual is confronted with an something that is inconsistent when they internalize it they should move beyond that line of thinking.

However, that individuals interpret things differently does not mean that the 'religion' is necessarily internally inconsistent.

Does this mean then that of the millions of only religions there may be millions of only religions that are internally consistent? What I don't get, I guess, is why internal consistency means anything. Couldn't any belief system you want to name be made internally consistent if it included the notion that its truth is one beyond question. Isn't the notion of consistency a relative thing. The problem I have with truths that include things, ideas, concepts, etc. things that can be put into language, is that they always seem to hinge for their foundation, on some concealed prejudice, some unexamined assumption the person does not see he or she is making.

I came to this conclusion because in my own search for a good that can be proven, I failed and that led to despair, hopelessness, and finally surrender.

Only in the letting go of the cravings that were actually nothing but ego, letting go at the end of thought's rope, did I find that my emptiness was and always had been filled by my being. Being here now was all I had ever been looking for. I was rendered stupid by the fact that everything is so utterly simple. As a talker I would say I went all the way out there to come all the way back.

My opinion then is that if you want consistency seek the source of your longings. In the Beginning God didn't say let there be light. He said, let there be love. It is that which we seek and have always had, in my opinion.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
167
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
I agree. But only Religion has an internally-consistent method of dealing with the illogical: which is why Atheism/non-Thiesm really isn't a "religion". But I'm saying that, on occasion, people get a 'religious like' fervor and take the arguments further than logic would allow: would you agree?

What on Earth do you mean by "internally consistent?" If, you mean, that in the face of observable evidence that contradicts religious dogma, the consistent method of dealing with the evidence is sticking fingers in ears and saying "la la la la la," then yes, generally consistent in that regard. Well, that's a bit of an exaggeration. Generally, in the face of contradictory evidence, poor evidence is obviously misinterpreted for the sake of pretending that there's some sort of controversy. E.g., evolution.

Or, do you have a better way to describe how several faiths (not all) deal with evolution? It seems odd to see different sects in Christianity taking completely opposing sides, with some religious groups saying, "evolution? Yes, absolutely." And other groups saying, "we have evidence [no they don't] that the Earth was created 6000 years ago, and there's no evolution."
 
Last edited:

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
The video was infantile drivel. It portrayed atheists as stupid transsexuals with squeaky voices. It was a desperate schoolboy satire of 'straw man' ideas the actor could not comprehend.



Which religion do you have in mind when you make that assertion?

The Abrahamic faiths are famously inconsistent both within and between adherent groups.

Take women drivers, for instance. Saudi Wahabis and Hassidic Jews both condemn female drivers as " immodest". Other sects within these faith groups have more liberal positions and "allow" women to drive. How generous of them!

Muslims and Hassidic Jews forbid pre-stunning of animals before slaughter while most Christians favour it.
Hassidic Jews dislike Islam with the same feral intensity with which most Islamic groups regard Judaism. Yet they all revere Abraham as a founding father and both regard evolution as an abomination.

Consistency? Please, there are adults present.

True love puts your children in cages so they can't make their own mistakes. R'amen.
 
Last edited:

Caravaggio

Senior member
Aug 3, 2013
508
1
0
True love puts your children in cages so they can't make their own mistakes. R'amen.

.?
How does your statement (above) connect with anything in this thread?

Do you believe there are fairies at the bottom of your garden?

Is so, you will probably believe in anything your local priest tells you.

Even a 'loving God' who commands you to circumcise your sons...and eat fish on Friday and make your wife stumble around in a Burkha.

Think for yourself, stop conforming to ancient untestable nonsense.


Who is the butt of the joke now?

This overly combative approach is inappropriate for this particular forum.

Perknose
Forum Director
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,768
6,770
126
DixyCrat: Along those lines, I will agree that any set of beliefs that requires you accept internally inconsistent ideas is, itself, unstable. But I'd say that it's the individual reflecting on their interaction with a faith-base that leads to such.

M: I should probably just stay out of this because I have not much ability to understand what thinking people mean. I particularly don't get what 'an individual reflecting on their interaction with a faith-base' means.

DC: That is: Everything requires interpretation, when the individual is confronted with an something that is inconsistent when they internalize it they should move beyond that line of thinking.

M: This, while more specific, doesn't help me. I don't know why everything needs interpretation or why one would want to trust it or why somebody would want to internalize something inconsistent or how they could move beyond that.

I believe you are saying something you see that you think is important, but I am to stupid to know what it is. I am sorry.

DC: However, that individuals interpret things differently does not mean that the 'religion' is necessarily internally inconsistent.

M: I CAN see that just because a person says he's a Catholic doesn't mean that everything HE thinks is CATHOLIC about his thinking, is actually what MOST Catholics would say is Catholic, which raises the issue, of course, as to whether there really is anything TRUELY catholic other than what's in people's heads.

My resolution along these lines is that religion is a science, an experiential of the difference between conscious states and that the experimental evidence for the existence of God is the God conscious state, a condition of self extinction and ecstasy the experience of which removes all doubt and can be reached and verified under the guidance of those who have already gone down that path. The existence of such a path and the ideas associated with it, would be what could be called a Secret. That is to say there is a truth whose immediate unlikelihood is concealed by so many unconscious assumptions that it is invisible in the glare.

It's existence, I would offer, is or can be suspected because of longing, a deep sense of idealism and the sure sense that something is radically wrong. Perhaps you could say it is the question of what the Matrix is that drives you and will not let you rest. The goal, I would say is not to be THE ONE, but to be AT ONE. It is there that the PROGRAM goes down and the bullets fall from the air.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,466
3,067
121
I really didn't know you needed anything to be an Atheist actually.

Always thought it was just a non thinking of worrying about a religion to begin with, then someone went makes a belief out of it.

At that point, they wouldn't be an Atheist either in reality ???

I'm probably messing it up with Agnostic or something along those lines.
 
Last edited:

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
First people need to learn to think for themselves.

The Internet is like a giant bookshelf. It does not teach you to believe in anything. Before someone else tells you what a book means, you should read the book first.

I find it amazing how someone who really never read the Bible or may not even believe in God want to know why God does this or God allows that to happen. If you don't believe in God, why use God in an argument? It is like my saying I don't understand why the wizard of oz let it rain today.
 
Last edited:

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,791
6,350
126
First people need to learn to think for themselves.

The Internet is like a giant bookshelf. It does not teach you to believe in anything. Before someone else tells you what a book means, you should read the book first.

I find it amazing how someone who really never read the Bible or may not even believe in God want to know why God does this or God allows that to happen. If you don't believe in God, why use God in an argument? It is like my saying I don't understand why the wizard of oz let it rain today.

Most of us have read the Bible and/or were once Believers in God.
 

Rustler

Golden Member
Jan 14, 2004
1,253
1
81
Even if we were genetifically modified by alien visitors to this planet, it begs the question who created them?