The Inq Calls the 7900 a 7800GTX 512 Repeate

[nts]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Edit: Ronin's CCC FUD:

His screenshot: http://server.counter-strike.net/images/misc/atimemusage2.png
Actual CCC usage: http://img436.imageshack.us/img436/2241/cccopen8vn.jpg

Conclusion: Ronin took a quick shot of CCC during its split second memory load to falsely claim it uses that much memory all the time when CCC is open. My SS proves Ronin is a liar - as expected.

I can confirm that, the mem usage only goes up when you load the program after which it drops down. In my case 1MB,4MB,9MB for 3 CLI.exe's running (23,17,30 in VM). Ronins shot is BS (hardly unexpected).

Exit the ATi systray app and you cut that in a third (one CLI.exe down).

Don't use overdrive and you can disable the ati2ev... exe's running (saves 3MB there if you need it).

 

[yacoub]

not until someone offers one with a better, quiter cooler.
until then it's a rock or a hard place for people looking to upgrade to a hot new GPU. NVidia unavailable, ATI noisy and hot. Bleh.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: nts

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Edit: Ronin's CCC FUD:

His screenshot: http://server.counter-strike.net/images/misc/atimemusage2.png
Actual CCC usage: http://img436.imageshack.us/img436/2241/cccopen8vn.jpg

Conclusion: Ronin took a quick shot of CCC during its split second memory load to falsely claim it uses that much memory all the time when CCC is open. My SS proves Ronin is a liar - as expected.

I can confirm that, the mem usage only goes up when you load the program after which it drops down. In my case 1MB,4MB,9MB for 3 CLI.exe's running (23,17,30 in VM). Ronins shot is BS (hardly unexpected).

Exit the ATi systray app and you cut that in a third (one CLI.exe down).

Don't use overdrive and you can disable the ati2ev... exe's running (saves 3MB there if you need it).

Yep exactly, just more proof that Ronin = liar with no crediblity whatsoever.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: yacoub
not until someone offers one with a better, quiter cooler.
until then it's a rock or a hard place for people looking to upgrade to a hot new GPU. NVidia unavailable, ATI noisy and hot. Bleh.

Sapphire has a watercooled card out there now if you want near silent + cool.

 

[rise]

add it to your sig :roll:

 

[yacoub]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
... the steam survey just tells you that the high end market is small indeed.

Then that makes it even more pathetic that there isn't enough 7900 supply available. If there are only a few hundred people who even buy the high end cards, what did they do - have only 50 binned cores ready on launch day? lol

 

[TraumaRN]

I'm not missing the point Joker, I'm making my own point. I figured you'd be smart enough to figure that out. And no offense but you are making yourself sound immature, dare I say that you sound like Rollo used to sound. Thats just my thought at least.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
I'm not missing the point Joker, I'm making my own point. I figured you'd be smart enough to figure that out. And no offense but you are making yourself sound immature, dare I say that you sound like Rollo used to sound. Thats just my thought at least.

Right and what relevance did your point have to Ronin being exposed as a liar? That's right NONE. BTW your original post:

I think the point Ronin is trying to make is that CCC no matter what is leaving a memory footprint alot larger than an nVidia control panel.

Hence me letting you know that you're missing the point.

 

[yacoub]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: yacoub
not until someone offers one with a better, quiter cooler.
until then it's a rock or a hard place for people looking to upgrade to a hot new GPU. NVidia unavailable, ATI noisy and hot. Bleh.

Sapphire has a watercooled card out there now if you want near silent + cool.

I don't want that crap, just a better fan design. it's not hard to do, it's just taking an ungodly long time for anyone to release such a design for the X1900 series compared to the X800s and 7800GTs. :[

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: yacoub

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: yacoub
not until someone offers one with a better, quiter cooler.
until then it's a rock or a hard place for people looking to upgrade to a hot new GPU. NVidia unavailable, ATI noisy and hot. Bleh.

Sapphire has a watercooled card out there now if you want near silent + cool.

I don't want that crap, just a better fan design. it's not hard to do, it's just taking an ungodly long time for anyone to release such a design for the X1900 series compared to the X800s and 7800GTs. :[

If it matters so much to you then add your own cooler on there. Otherwise go get a 7900 GTX (inferior IQ) with the quadro cooler and your problem is solved.

 

[vaccarjm]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: vaccarjm

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
This coming from a guy that falsified CCC memory results in order to make ATi look bad, moderates nVidia's nZone forums and rides Sony's jockstrap as a test monkey to get free nVidia cards. Yeah Ronin, you're one to be talking about neutrality. If I'm a fan of ATi cards that's all I am, a fan, not someone that like you who depends on video card welfare.

Get off your abrasive high horse, bud. My results were accurate (and validated by other people, I might add). Yeah, I moderate the nZone forums, but bfd, really. And as far as my employer is concerned (which you STILL haven't figured out, regardless of what you *think* you know), I get the same treatment from ATi as I do nVIDIA (which hasn't gotten through your thick skull, hence a perfect example of you seeing what you WANT to see).

Like I said. No leg to stand on, and the way you present yourself certainly doesn't win any points. Grow up, Joker. You're a joke, and everyone knows it.

Your results weren't validated by anyone you tool. They were proven to be b.s. in that thread, should I dig it up and make you look like the liar you are again? I already know who your employer is and how you get your cards. You don't get any "treatment" from ATi, your employer Sony gets cards to test their games. It just happens that you're one of the test monkeys at work that gets to use them.


Edit: Ronin's CCC FUD:

His screenshot: http://server.counter-strike.net/images/misc/atimemusage2.png
Actual CCC usage: http://img436.imageshack.us/img436/2241/cccopen8vn.jpg

Conclusion: Ronin took a quick shot of CCC during its split second memory load to falsely claim it uses that much memory all the time when CCC is open. My SS proves Ronin is a liar - as expected.

How old are you?

Old enough and likely smarter than you.

Intelligent response.

So let me guess....19 and finishing your 1st year at your local JC?

 

[Matthias99]

Ooh, geek fight! Anybody bring popcorn?

Seriously, guys, take it to PMs if you want to have a pissing match.

 

[yacoub]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: yacoub

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: yacoub
not until someone offers one with a better, quiter cooler.
until then it's a rock or a hard place for people looking to upgrade to a hot new GPU. NVidia unavailable, ATI noisy and hot. Bleh.

Sapphire has a watercooled card out there now if you want near silent + cool.

I don't want that crap, just a better fan design. it's not hard to do, it's just taking an ungodly long time for anyone to release such a design for the X1900 series compared to the X800s and 7800GTs. :[

If it matters so much to you then add your own cooler on there. Otherwise go get a 7900 GTX (inferior IQ) with the quadro cooler and your problem is solved.

I probably will as soon as one hits the $400 mark, but NVidia's lack of supply looks like it won't be dropping in price anytime soon but going up like the 7800GTX512. Sucks.

I'd buy ATI but they have crappy and loud coolers.
I'd buy NVidia but their supply is tight enough the prices won't come down quickly enough.

Guess I'll keep waiting.

 

[imported_thefonz]

Well this thread went down hill pertty fast, as for CCC usage leaving a memory footprint, If you are a "enthusiast" your going to have atleast 1g of memory anyway, or maybe even 2. Would there be a noticable hit in performance? no freakin way there would be, especially if you have a high end card like a 1900.

The CCC usage is a moot issue brought up by nvidia supporters/advertizers to try and make ATI look bad.

Avaliability of cards on the other hand is a REAL issue, and i think Nvidia droped the ball on that front.

As for deadseasqurrel posting those benchmarks, its stupid to think anyone would need SLI for anything under 1600x1200, the performance boost may very well be anywhere from 70-100% at 1280x1024, but its useless if your already getting 60fps, your eyes could not even see the difference. SLI/crossfire is a waste of money IMO, unless you can afford a $700 monitor.

 

[BenSkywalker]

If the roles were reversed and nVidia had the superior IQ X1900XTX and ATi the needle in your eyes AF 7900 GTX, ATi would've been lucky to sell a dozen cards.

I want to be clear on this Joker- you are going on record saying that the GeForceFX series was in fact superior to the R3x0 based parts? That the FX5800, being louder, hotter and offering vastly superior AF should have been a no brainer choice over the R9700Pro? You are going on record saying that right now, right?

 

[imported_thefonz]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

If the roles were reversed and nVidia had the superior IQ X1900XTX and ATi the needle in your eyes AF 7900 GTX, ATi would've been lucky to sell a dozen cards.

I want to be clear on this Joker- you are going on record saying that the GeForceFX series was in fact superior to the R3x0 based parts? That the FX5800, being louder, hotter and offering vastly superior AF should have been a no brainer choice over the R9700Pro? You are going on record saying that right now, right?

LOL well I think the peromance differnace between the FX series and r3x00 was too great to ignore, frame rate wise. This generation though, the cards perform about the same, FPS, with ATI having better IQ.

 

[mooncancook]

Originally posted by: Matthias99
Ooh, geek fight! Anybody bring popcorn?

Seriously, guys, take it to PMs if you want to have a pissing match.

I think some ppl are missing the point of buying a high end card - it is to enjoy playing games.

 

[akugami]

Originally posted by: Ronin
Ignore the fanboys looking to make this refresh look like a bad launch. They're the lazy ones that don't spend the time backing up their data.

And yeah, the reason there's so much stock of X1900's is because people aren't BUYING them.

45% of the market share? Please submit links reflecting that number, because I personally call horsesh!t.

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2005/11/01/graphics_chip_mkt_q3_05/

Info seems difficult to come by but that's the best I can find. If you got something else showing a huge lead by nVidia (which I always assumed had a larger share of the gpu market) then please show it. It's a bit difficult to find discrete GPU sales numbers as most show total gpu chipset sales, even those integrated. The above link shows ATI with 47.9% and nVidia with 50.4% in Q3'05. Quite even if you ask me.

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2005/12/02/nvidia_ati_2005_sales/

The total estimated sales numbers for ATI and nVidia in 2005 seem nearly equal. 2.06 billion for nVidia and 1.99 billion for ATI.

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=4615&vpr=yes

Hexus report. Says in 2006 so far, ATI has 52% of the discrete GPU market while nVidia has 45%.


Now, I'm no business major and this was 15 min of google searching but with what info I can find, it seems that contrary to popular belief, ATI is quite even with nVidia in sales.

I did see a report from 2003 with nVidia having a 62% marketshare so I think it's only recently that ATI has jumped up in marketshare to be nearly equal with nVidia only starting in 2004. 2005 shows both companies relatively equal. This is a good thing as it means that no one company is dominating to the degree that Intel dominates the CPU market. This means that overall prices shouldn't jump by leaps and bounds.

 

[Ronin]

I'm acceptable to those numbers. It would seem that the integrated market is where ATi pulls ahead, and I'm comfortable with that.

Thanks for spending the time to check it out.

 

[Madellga]

Originally posted by: thefonz

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

If the roles were reversed and nVidia had the superior IQ X1900XTX and ATi the needle in your eyes AF 7900 GTX, ATi would've been lucky to sell a dozen cards.

I want to be clear on this Joker- you are going on record saying that the GeForceFX series was in fact superior to the R3x0 based parts? That the FX5800, being louder, hotter and offering vastly superior AF should have been a no brainer choice over the R9700Pro? You are going on record saying that right now, right?

LOL well I think the peromance differnace between the FX series and r3x00 was too great to ignore, frame rate wise. This generation though, the cards perform about the same, FPS, with ATI having better IQ.

Therefore, it is even worse to discuss such things.....the gap is pretty much closed.

We can pick red or green, based on our preferences on IQ, noise, etc.

Ben is just trying to make a point, that an argument used before can be twisted and applied again. It is about hypocrisy.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

If the roles were reversed and nVidia had the superior IQ X1900XTX and ATi the needle in your eyes AF 7900 GTX, ATi would've been lucky to sell a dozen cards.

I want to be clear on this Joker- you are going on record saying that the GeForceFX series was in fact superior to the R3x0 based parts? That the FX5800, being louder, hotter and offering vastly superior AF should have been a no brainer choice over the R9700Pro? You are going on record saying that right now, right?

Are you trying to imply the X1900 is like the FX5800? The 5800 sucked because it was an underperforming card with crappy AA (no RGMS or TRAA back then) and the AF it did have wasn't practical because of the huge hit it took. The loud fan + heat were just nails on its coffin. Contrast that with the X1900: Superior angle independent AF that takes a very small hit, HDR+AA, performs on par if not slightly better in D3D overall, priced competitively with the 7900 GTX and has better availability. The only negative thing going for the X1900 is the fan noise, the heat is a non-factor since it gets pushed out by its HSF anyway. Do you put your ear to the side of your PC with a temperature probe while playing games?

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: nts

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Edit: Ronin's CCC FUD:

His screenshot: http://server.counter-strike.net/images/misc/atimemusage2.png
Actual CCC usage: http://img436.imageshack.us/img436/2241/cccopen8vn.jpg

Conclusion: Ronin took a quick shot of CCC during its split second memory load to falsely claim it uses that much memory all the time when CCC is open. My SS proves Ronin is a liar - as expected.

I can confirm that, the mem usage only goes up when you load the program after which it drops down. In my case 1MB,4MB,9MB for 3 CLI.exe's running (23,17,30 in VM). Ronins shot is BS (hardly unexpected).

Exit the ATi systray app and you cut that in a third (one CLI.exe down).

Don't use overdrive and you can disable the ati2ev... exe's running (saves 3MB there if you need it).

Both of you need to go back and read the thread where it was discussed. It is a MEMORY HOG, no matter how you spin it. I did MY tests 5 separate times to verify results. Saying I timed my screenshot is about is valid as most of the arguments you put forth for your coveted ATi. When you're able to provide valid, concise, unabrasive comments, I imagine people might show you some respect. As of right now, you're being laughed at.

FFS, it's a GD control panel. Grow up, both of you.

Joker takes on any little argument that's worthless, and blows it out of proportion.

Take that in your 'jockstrap', Joker (highly intelligent comment there, btw, Joker..I was very impressed).

 

[deadseasquirrel]

Originally posted by: thefonz
As for deadseasqurrel posting those benchmarks, its stupid to think anyone would need SLI for anything under 1600x1200, the performance boost may very well be anywhere from 70-100% at 1280x1024, but its useless if your already getting 60fps, your eyes could not even see the difference. SLI/crossfire is a waste of money IMO, unless you can afford a $700 monitor.

I think many will disagree with you on what eyes can see. In fact, lemme ask you this-- why do most people hate seeing a 60hz refresh rate but are fine at 85hz, if, after all, we can't see anything above 60fps?

In one of those links, it was shown that NO single card can get 60fps in FEAR at 1280x960. A 7900GT averaged 35, but when SLI was enabled, it hit 63.

While I agree that 1600x1200 and above is the sweet-spot for dual-gpu, based on the benchmarks, I'd say it's not "wasted" at 1280x1024.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: nts

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Edit: Ronin's CCC FUD:

His screenshot: http://server.counter-strike.net/images/misc/atimemusage2.png
Actual CCC usage: http://img436.imageshack.us/img436/2241/cccopen8vn.jpg

Conclusion: Ronin took a quick shot of CCC during its split second memory load to falsely claim it uses that much memory all the time when CCC is open. My SS proves Ronin is a liar - as expected.

I can confirm that, the mem usage only goes up when you load the program after which it drops down. In my case 1MB,4MB,9MB for 3 CLI.exe's running (23,17,30 in VM). Ronins shot is BS (hardly unexpected).

Exit the ATi systray app and you cut that in a third (one CLI.exe down).

Don't use overdrive and you can disable the ati2ev... exe's running (saves 3MB there if you need it).

Both of you need to go back and read the thread where it was discussed. It is a MEMORY HOG, no matter how you spin it. I did MY tests 5 separate times to verify results. Saying I timed my screenshot is about is valid as most of the arguments you put forth for your coveted ATi. When you're able to provide valid, concise, unabrasive comments, I imagine people might show you some respect. As of right now, you're being laughed at.

FFS, it's a GD control panel. Grow up, both of you.

Joker takes on any little argument that's worthless, and blows it out of proportion.

Take that in your 'jockstrap', Joker (highly intelligent comment there, btw, Joker..I was very impressed).

Translation: Oh snap I got caught lying (again).

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

If the roles were reversed and nVidia had the superior IQ X1900XTX and ATi the needle in your eyes AF 7900 GTX, ATi would've been lucky to sell a dozen cards.

I want to be clear on this Joker- you are going on record saying that the GeForceFX series was in fact superior to the R3x0 based parts? That the FX5800, being louder, hotter and offering vastly superior AF should have been a no brainer choice over the R9700Pro? You are going on record saying that right now, right?

Are you trying to imply the X1900 is like the FX5800? The 5800 sucked because it was an underperforming card with crappy AA (no RGMS or TRAA back then) and the AF it did have wasn't practical because of the huge hit it took. The loud fan + heat were just nails on its coffin. Contrast that with the X1900: Superior angle independent AF that takes a very small hit, HDR+AA, performs on par if not slightly better in D3D overall, priced competitively with the 7900 GTX and has better availability. The only negative thing going for the X1900 is the fan noise, the heat is a non-factor since it gets pushed out by its HSF anyway. Do you put your ear to the side of your PC with a temperature probe while playing games?

What about the power useage? And what about the heat that is given off from the back of the card? And 80-90C is a 'non' factor. Thats HOT man....burn your hand hot...