The Information War

[Commodus]

Leftists are no less anti-science than the right.

See anti-GMO groups and abortion.

You've already been utterly decimated by facts earlier, but I want to single out the ludicrousness of claiming that being pro-choice is somehow anti-science.

Science dictates that an embryo or fetus can't survive at all without the mother. Ergo, it's not really a sustainable human being, at least not up until late into the pregnancy. To me, anti-science is insisting that it's murder to get rid of a barely distinguishable blob of tissue.

Moreover, science is only part of why many people are pro-choice; it also comes down to logic and compassion. Real evil is forcing a woman to raise a child she can't afford, inflicting misery on both her and the child. To force her to have a child simply because a condom broke. To make her live with the physical consequences of rape for the rest of her life. And of course, evil is cutting off funding for an organization that provides vital clinical services simply because you believe a lie that this funding goes toward abortions.

 

[Jaskalas]

I doubt it'll reach the fever pitch that Repubs employed for the last 8 years.

Of course not, it'll only have 4 years to bake into a hardened crust.

 

[Jhhnn]

Of course not, it'll only have 4 years to bake into a hardened crust.

Libs generally don't go all in on conspiracy theory, not like Birther/Benghazi Believers. Well, other than some of the oh so cheated Bernie bros & concern trolls claiming to be them.

Facts have a liberal bias because libs have a bias towards facts.

 

[woolfe9998]

Of course not, it'll only have 4 years to bake into a hardened crust.

If you're talking about the theory that Putin arranged this chemical attack, my bet is it has a very short shelf life. It barely exists even now. If you're talking about the actual investigation being carried on by federal law enforcement into the larger issue of collusion, that's going to depend on how soon the investigation wraps up and what conclusions it ultimately reaches.

 

[woolfe9998]

deleted

 

[ivwshane]

Libs generally don't go all in on conspiracy theory, not like Birther/Benghazi Believers. Well, other than some of the oh so cheated Bernie bros & concern trolls claiming to be them.

Facts have a liberal bias because libs have a bias towards facts.

This is what concerns me. The Bernie faction seems to be a right wing equivalent for the left and that's not a good thing.

 

[Jhhnn]

This is what concerns me. The Bernie faction seems to be a right wing equivalent for the left and that's not a good thing.

A huge amount of Russian agitprop has been directed at them. I mean, where are all those oh so concerned Bernie bro trolls today?

Just gone, disappeared into the miasma of the internet...

 

[ivwshane]

A huge amount of Russian agitprop has been directed at them. I mean, where are all those oh so concerned Bernie bro trolls today?

Just gone, disappeared into the miasma of the internet...

There are quite a few still on this board and I'd hardly call them trolls.

 

[Jaskalas]

More case study for the subject.

MSNBC's O'Donnell: Putin 'Might Have Orchestrated' Syria Strike to Help Trump
Going to be a long 4 years of birtherism pointed in the other direction.

And now the Sister piece to the previous one.

How Al Qaeda Played Donald Trump And The American Media

1. The Russian Ministry of Defense has claimed that Liwa al-Aqsa was using facilities in and around Khan Sheikhoun to manufacture crude chemical shells and landmines
2. In Aleppo, the Russians discovered crude weapons production laboratories that filled mortar shells and landmines with a mix of chlorine gas and white phosphorus
3. Al Nusra has a long history of manufacturing and employing crude chemical weapons
   • the 2013 chemical attack on Ghouta made use of low-grade Sarin nerve agent locally synthesized
   • attacks in and around Aleppo in 2016 made use of a chlorine/white phosphorous blend.

It goes on to make a very detailed argument, probably best saved for the new topic for it.
I mention it here as it's all very fitting. "The Information War" is very much demonstrated by the Syrian story.
Is the truth unknowable?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

And now the Sister piece to the previous one.

How Al Qaeda Played Donald Trump And The American Media

1. The Russian Ministry of Defense has claimed that Liwa al-Aqsa was using facilities in and around Khan Sheikhoun to manufacture crude chemical shells and landmines
2. In Aleppo, the Russians discovered crude weapons production laboratories that filled mortar shells and landmines with a mix of chlorine gas and white phosphorus
3. Al Nusra has a long history of manufacturing and employing crude chemical weapons
   • the 2013 chemical attack on Ghouta made use of low-grade Sarin nerve agent locally synthesized
   • attacks in and around Aleppo in 2016 made use of a chlorine/white phosphorous blend.

It goes on to make a very detailed argument, probably best saved for the new topic for it.
I mention it here as it's all very fitting. "The Information War" is very much demonstrated by the Syrian story.
Is the truth unknowable?

I'd posit that the truth is knowable, it's just that it becomes more than one truth over time. Fact manipulation has a long and storied history, and eventually truth just becomes whatever's left over when the dust settles. This may be different things for different people who have access to/trust different things, but while we gain access to more information, it may actually be *harder* to come to a singular narrative about something instead of easier, which should happen if logic were the driving factor.

 

[Jhhnn]

There are quite a few still on this board and I'd hardly call them trolls.

Don't you remember the blizzard of personas that blew through here? Dormant accounts brought back to life only to disappear along with "new members" who only showed up to rave about the evil Hillary & disappear?

Remember how Hillary was the real enemy, not Trump?

Shee-it, Sherlock- they were everywhere, not just here, making Mike Cernovich look like the amateur troll master he is.

I figure if every honest Bernie supporter had pulled their heads out of their asses on election day that we wouldn't be dealing with Trump or a Repub Senate, either. They got trolled, hard.

 

[momeNt]

Don't you remember the blizzard of personas that blew through here? Dormant accounts brought back to life only to disappear along with "new members" who only showed up to rave about the evil Hillary & disappear?

Remember how Hillary was the real enemy, not Trump?

Shee-it, Sherlock- they were everywhere, not just here, making Mike Cernovich look like the amateur troll master he is.

I figure if every honest Bernie supporter had pulled their heads out of their asses on election day that we wouldn't be dealing with Trump or a Repub Senate, either. They got trolled, hard.

Do you honestly think P&N was a garden for astro-turfing / shilling? It occasionally feels like there are liberal shills on here, but in the end I can't buy into it just due to the fact that there is little to gain by using this place as a platform for shilling.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Do you honestly think P&N was a garden for astro-turfing / shilling? It occasionally feels like there are liberal shills on here, but in the end I can't buy into it just due to the fact that there is little to gain by using this place as a platform for shilling.

Yeah, the reality (scary or otherwise) is that the posting populace of this forum is probably fairly representative, at least of the political views of those inclined to a) be on a tech forum, and b) post their opinion. That may not necessarily correlate over a extremely large populace but I seriously doubt there's astro-turfing happening here.
... which is exactly what an astro-turfer would say.

 

[vi edit]

Do you honestly think P&N was a garden for astro-turfing / shilling? It occasionally feels like there are liberal shills on here, but in the end I can't buy into it just due to the fact that there is little to gain by using this place as a platform for shilling.

I say this *purely* as a poster and nothing to do as a moderator but I'm pretty convinced that there are some accounts here that are of the "Alt Right" or "fake news" mindset that seem to parrot and reinforce talking points that appear to be issued out as part of a coordinated effort. It's not not a high number but I'm pretty certain they exist. I don't really think the misinformation war is really being waged the same on the left side.

 

[momeNt]

I say this *purely* as a poster and nothing to do as a moderator but I'm pretty convinced that there are some accounts here that are of the "Alt Right" or "fake news" mindset that seem to parrot and reinforce talking points that appear to be issued out as part of a coordinated effort. It's not not a high number but I'm pretty certain they exist. I don't really think the misinformation war is really being waged the same on the left side.

Possibly oorooroo (sp?), but i'm more inclined to think he's just gone off his rocker no?

Maybe I'm underestimating the impact that this place has in terms of eyeballs, but I just can't imagine it's worth it.

 

[Commodus]

I say this *purely* as a poster and nothing to do as a moderator but I'm pretty convinced that there are some accounts here that are of the "Alt Right" or "fake news" mindset that seem to parrot and reinforce talking points that appear to be issued out as part of a coordinated effort. It's not not a high number but I'm pretty certain they exist. I don't really think the misinformation war is really being waged the same on the left side.

I'm not sure I'd call them shills so much as... shells. They're so devoid of critical thinking and skepticism that they just repost whatever they saw from Breitbart/Fox News/Washington Times or their favorite ranting conservative vlogger. It merely looks like coordination because they rush to post without considering the accuracy or context of what they see. See: 0roo0roo's post-and-run videos.

It's not that you never get equivalents on the left... but at least on this forum, you don't see much of that. Even the more die-hard lefties tend to have 1) clearly seen the article/video, 2) digested it enough to write more than one line of commentary when starting a thread, and 3) understood concepts like science, logic and context enough to know why some claims are more trustworthy than others.

 

[agent00f]

I say this *purely* as a poster and nothing to do as a moderator but I'm pretty convinced that there are some accounts here that are of the "Alt Right" or "fake news" mindset that seem to parrot and reinforce talking points that appear to be issued out as part of a coordinated effort. It's not not a high number but I'm pretty certain they exist. I don't really think the misinformation war is really being waged the same on the left side.

I'm not sure I'd call them shills so much as... shells. They're so devoid of critical thinking and skepticism that they just repost whatever they saw from Breitbart/Fox News/Washington Times or their favorite ranting conservative vlogger. It merely looks like coordination because they rush to post without considering the accuracy or context of what they see. See: 0roo0roo's post-and-run videos.

It's not that you never get equivalents on the left... but at least on this forum, you don't see much of that. Even the more die-hard lefties tend to have 1) clearly seen the article/video, 2) digested it enough to write more than one line of commentary when starting a thread, and 3) understood concepts like science, logic and context enough to know why some claims are more trustworthy than others.

I don't think it's "coordinated" as much as a naturally motivated display of self-interest. Without much of merit going on between the ears, such folks seek social status through alternate means such as membership in a preferred group, preferably innate such as identity via ethnicity or such so that can't be argued/taken away.

The conservative media in service of the political consortium simply provides an easy avenue to realize those goals, in a mutually agreeable/beneficial relationship. So even the lowest edu/iq whites etc can derive some confidence and status among their peers (and it's obvious how important that is to them) in exchange for a vote. The fake-new/agitprop is just shared material to service that ecosystem.

 

[Jhhnn]

Do you honestly think P&N was a garden for astro-turfing / shilling? It occasionally feels like there are liberal shills on here, but in the end I can't buy into it just due to the fact that there is little to gain by using this place as a platform for shilling.

I think you & most everybody else vastly underestimate Russian efforts-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_brigades

Not just here but rather here, there & everywhere. The whole world is behind the curve wrt their efforts.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I think you & most everybody else vastly underestimate Russian efforts-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_brigades

Not just here but rather here, there & everywhere. The whole world is behind the curve wrt their efforts.

Just be careful, not every dissenting voice is the Red Menace.

 

[Jhhnn]

Just be careful, not every dissenting voice is the Red Menace.

They haven't been communists for 25 years. The ideology of the Russian Oligarchs is the same as our own right wing plutocracy.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

They haven't been communists for 25 years. The ideology of the Russian Oligarchs is the same as our own right wing plutocracy.

I know, the pic was an obtuse exaggeration of the rational end conclusion of looking for Russian web brigades around every corner.

 

[zinfamous]

More case study for the subject.

MSNBC's O'Donnell: Putin 'Might Have Orchestrated' Syria Strike to Help Trump
Going to be a long 4 years of birtherism pointed in the other direction.

this is not birtherism. This is JFK assassination/9-11 truthiness, possibly. But, strangely....maybe more plausible.

Birtherism is entirely different, but shockingly not all that unique in this country, or in any country. It isn't a conspiracy theory, it's just the fear and terror of a privileged class lashing out at a world that it honestly believes has abandoned it, for some myriad of fantastical and not-so fantastical reasons. This happens every couple of generations, until the rubes that swallow the nonsense drag us into yet another meaningless war that kills millions, then they give up.

 

[agent00f]

I think you & most everybody else vastly underestimate Russian efforts-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_brigades

Not just here but rather here, there & everywhere. The whole world is behind the curve wrt their efforts.

Direct (mis)information is actually a rather primitive form of propaganda. Modern political persuasion is predicated on creating personal image with resulting motivations as a side-effect.

For example, the "conservative man" is basically cowboy john galt, equipped and ready to tell libtards what no matter their own educational attainment or lack thereof. That's how millions of degenerates all manage to internalize more or less the same dumbshittery without too much learning or coordination: they're personally motivated to retain that image or else risk losing their identity.

That's also why post/enlightenment rationality is futile against that sort, because cowboy has no use for them sissy thinking in lieu of simpleton "common sense".

 

[momeNt]

Direct (mis)information is actually a rather primitive form of propaganda. Modern political persuasion is predicated on creating personal image with resulting motivations as a side-effect.

For example, the "conservative man" is basically cowboy john galt, equipped and ready to tell libtards what no matter their own educational attainment or lack thereof. That's how millions of degenerates all manage to internalize more or less the same dumbshittery without too much learning or coordination: they're personally motivated to retain that image or else risk losing their identity.

That's also why post/enlightenment rationality is futile against that sort, because cowboy has no use for them sissy thinking in lieu of simpleton "common sense".

So... enter you. Equipped with your name-calling, slurs, and a general derision towards conservatives, and you expect to get successful results? Wut.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

So... enter you. Equipped with your name-calling, slurs, and a general derision towards conservatives, and you expect to get successful results? Wut.

A common tactic for those who don't wish to entertain the 'other tribe's' point of view, or if they completely fail to understand it (and don't wish to learn), is to denigrate him and attach an image of something universally reviled to him (even as a false equivalency) in order to attempt to erode his base and draw in additional followers through Alpha Male charisma and/or humor.

Idiocracy had a great example of this in the courtroom scene.

'I mean... just look at him'