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The Incredible Shrinking Airline Industry

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Glad to see them go.

Only the profitable survive.

Hopefully RyanAir will expand into the US.
 
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Glad to see them go.

Only the profitable survive.

Hopefully RyanAir will expand into the US.
Click to expand...


Under current guidelines, i don't think they are allowed to operate domestic flights in the US..due to foreign ownership laws.
Don't think thats changed under open skies...maybe I'm wrong
 
Were these companies operating THAT badly that a simple gasoline price increase (and a slowing economy - not sure how a slowing economy effects peoples flight plans) caused the airlines to fold?

Sorta like a few of my friends - complaining about $$ because of fuel price increase (2.90 to 3.04 in NJ - .14 increase , oh no)
 
Considering that rates for the most part, are actually lower than they were 25 years ago, (deregulation) yet fuel prices are more than quadruple what they were at the same time...this is NOT a small thing for the airlines.

They SHOULD raise fares by a considerable amount, but of course, they'd lose casual travelers who fly only because of the cheap airfare.
 
Originally posted by: ericlp
Originally posted by: extra
"Yes they are slower but use a lot less fuel. "

Meh. For regional stuff who cares if you get their 20minutes later. It's dwarfed by the time you spend standing line at the airport. 🙂

I'd take even a twice as slow flight if it would save me a good bit of cash! I suspect almost all personal (not business) travelers would as well. Perhaps we will see a resurgence of un-ducted fan research?
Click to expand...

Maybe we should fire up the zeppelins again.

I would think with todays technology and new materials that a disaster that happened in the past would never happen again.
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Actually there is serious talks in the works to do exactly that along with the surging demand for smaller aircraft.

Amazing that just as short as last year all the buzz was about the behemoth Airbus monster.

 
Another one for the OP to add to the Title.

This time it is because of a bank I said would fail as well back last January 2007.

Wells Fargo is getting more desperate by the day.

4-11-2008 Wells Fargo forces Frontier to file for bankruptcy protection

DENVER - Frontier Airlines sought bankruptcy protection Friday, the fourth carrier to do so in the past several weeks as exorbitant fuel prices eat into earnings and a weak U.S. economy keeps more people grounded.

The Chapter 11 filing in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in New York prevents the credit card processor from increasing its "holdback," Frontier CEO Sean Menke said.

"Unfortunately, our principal credit card processor very recently and unexpectedly informed us that, beginning on April 11, it intended to start withholding significant proceeds received from the sale of Frontier tickets," he said. "This change in established practices would have represented a material change to our cash forecasts and business plan. Unchecked, it would have put severe restraints on Frontier's liquidity and would have made it impossible for us to continue normal operations."

He said Frontier Holdings Inc. was prepared to litigate, if necessary.

The creditor listed in bankruptcy court documents as having the largest general unsecured claim against Frontier by far was Wells Fargo, with $93.5 million. Frontier said it had fewer than 50 creditors.

At the end of last year, Frontier said, it had assets of $98.3 million and debts of $92.2 million.

A Frontier spokesman said earlier this week the airline had "no concerns about bankruptcy" but added that it was working on strengthening its cash position.

Last month, Frontier said it had agreed to sell four planes to counter rising fuel costs.

Frontier shares lost most of their value in premarket trading Friday, tumbling $1.27 to 30 cents each.
===========================================

30 cents. They are done.

 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Another one for the OP to add to the Title.

This time it is because of a bank I said would fail as well back last January 2007.

Wells Fargo is getting more desperate by the day.

4-11-2008 Wells Fargo forces Frontier to file for bankruptcy protection

DENVER - Frontier Airlines sought bankruptcy protection Friday, the fourth carrier to do so in the past several weeks as exorbitant fuel prices eat into earnings and a weak U.S. economy keeps more people grounded.

The Chapter 11 filing in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in New York prevents the credit card processor from increasing its "holdback," Frontier CEO Sean Menke said.

"Unfortunately, our principal credit card processor very recently and unexpectedly informed us that, beginning on April 11, it intended to start withholding significant proceeds received from the sale of Frontier tickets," he said. "This change in established practices would have represented a material change to our cash forecasts and business plan. Unchecked, it would have put severe restraints on Frontier's liquidity and would have made it impossible for us to continue normal operations."

He said Frontier Holdings Inc. was prepared to litigate, if necessary.

The creditor listed in bankruptcy court documents as having the largest general unsecured claim against Frontier by far was Wells Fargo, with $93.5 million. Frontier said it had fewer than 50 creditors.

At the end of last year, Frontier said, it had assets of $98.3 million and debts of $92.2 million.

A Frontier spokesman said earlier this week the airline had "no concerns about bankruptcy" but added that it was working on strengthening its cash position.

Last month, Frontier said it had agreed to sell four planes to counter rising fuel costs.

Frontier shares lost most of their value in premarket trading Friday, tumbling $1.27 to 30 cents each.
===========================================

30 cents. They are done.
Click to expand...

Again, where does it say that Wells forced them into bankruptcy?

You're reaching Dave and it's pretty pathetic.
 
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Another one for the OP to add to the Title.

This time it is because of a bank I said would fail as well back last January 2007.

Wells Fargo is getting more desperate by the day.

4-11-2008 Wells Fargo forces Frontier to file for bankruptcy protection

DENVER - Frontier Airlines sought bankruptcy protection Friday, the fourth carrier to do so in the past several weeks as exorbitant fuel prices eat into earnings and a weak U.S. economy keeps more people grounded.

The Chapter 11 filing in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in New York prevents the credit card processor from increasing its "holdback," Frontier CEO Sean Menke said.

"Unfortunately, our principal credit card processor very recently and unexpectedly informed us that, beginning on April 11, it intended to start withholding significant proceeds received from the sale of Frontier tickets," he said. "This change in established practices would have represented a material change to our cash forecasts and business plan. Unchecked, it would have put severe restraints on Frontier's liquidity and would have made it impossible for us to continue normal operations."

He said Frontier Holdings Inc. was prepared to litigate, if necessary.

The creditor listed in bankruptcy court documents as having the largest general unsecured claim against Frontier by far was Wells Fargo, with $93.5 million. Frontier said it had fewer than 50 creditors.

At the end of last year, Frontier said, it had assets of $98.3 million and debts of $92.2 million.

A Frontier spokesman said earlier this week the airline had "no concerns about bankruptcy" but added that it was working on strengthening its cash position.

Last month, Frontier said it had agreed to sell four planes to counter rising fuel costs.

Frontier shares lost most of their value in premarket trading Friday, tumbling $1.27 to 30 cents each.
===========================================

30 cents. They are done.
Click to expand...

Again, where does it say that Wells forced them into bankruptcy?

You're reaching Dave and it's pretty pathetic.
Click to expand...

Bolded for the reading impaired
 
High fuel costs and a recession coming. It will be tough for a market saturated with airlines.

Champion was an oddity of a charter airline. It was owned by Northwest flying old retired NWA 727's. Then i guess it got bought out by a management team from NWA but now all of its operations are being taken over by NWA and the company is closing for good. I dont know, but it just seems way too intermingled with NWA for it to have been a legit independent airline.
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
High fuel costs and a recession coming. It will be tough for a market saturated with airlines.

Champion was an oddity of a charter airline. It was owned by Northwest flying old retired NWA 727's. Then i guess it got bought out by a management team from NWA but now all of its operations are being taken over by NWA and the company is closing for good. I dont know, but it just seems way too intermingled with NWA for it to have been a legit independent airline.
Click to expand...

Updated the OP with Frontier Info

Interesting point about Champion...It's kinda a wierd example...I stopped short of adding the Midwest Airlines subsidary that went out of business because it has been planned out for a while now.

I've got a ticket to Florida in a couple of weeks on Airtran, I hope they stay alive through then. 🙂

Also, might as well burn your tickets on American (if traveling over the past couple of days and this weekend)...man that whole situation has been chaos the last couple of days....

 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Another one for the OP to add to the Title.

This time it is because of a bank I said would fail as well back last January 2007.

Wells Fargo is getting more desperate by the day.

4-11-2008 Wells Fargo forces Frontier to file for bankruptcy protection

DENVER - Frontier Airlines sought bankruptcy protection Friday, the fourth carrier to do so in the past several weeks as exorbitant fuel prices eat into earnings and a weak U.S. economy keeps more people grounded.

The Chapter 11 filing in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in New York prevents the credit card processor from increasing its "holdback," Frontier CEO Sean Menke said.

"Unfortunately, our principal credit card processor very recently and unexpectedly informed us that, beginning on April 11, it intended to start withholding significant proceeds received from the sale of Frontier tickets," he said. "This change in established practices would have represented a material change to our cash forecasts and business plan. Unchecked, it would have put severe restraints on Frontier's liquidity and would have made it impossible for us to continue normal operations."

He said Frontier Holdings Inc. was prepared to litigate, if necessary.

The creditor listed in bankruptcy court documents as having the largest general unsecured claim against Frontier by far was Wells Fargo, with $93.5 million. Frontier said it had fewer than 50 creditors.

At the end of last year, Frontier said, it had assets of $98.3 million and debts of $92.2 million.

A Frontier spokesman said earlier this week the airline had "no concerns about bankruptcy" but added that it was working on strengthening its cash position.

Last month, Frontier said it had agreed to sell four planes to counter rising fuel costs.

Frontier shares lost most of their value in premarket trading Friday, tumbling $1.27 to 30 cents each.
===========================================

30 cents. They are done.
Click to expand...

Again, where does it say that Wells forced them into bankruptcy?

You're reaching Dave and it's pretty pathetic.
Click to expand...

Bolded for the reading impaired
Click to expand...

uh - Dave.

We realize that you are reading impaired.

Wells Fargo does not equal First Data.

 
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Another one for the OP to add to the Title.

This time it is because of a bank I said would fail as well back last January 2007.

Wells Fargo is getting more desperate by the day.

4-11-2008 Wells Fargo forces Frontier to file for bankruptcy protection

DENVER - Frontier Airlines sought bankruptcy protection Friday, the fourth carrier to do so in the past several weeks as exorbitant fuel prices eat into earnings and a weak U.S. economy keeps more people grounded.

The Chapter 11 filing in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in New York prevents the credit card processor from increasing its "holdback," Frontier CEO Sean Menke said.

"Unfortunately, our principal credit card processor very recently and unexpectedly informed us that, beginning on April 11, it intended to start withholding significant proceeds received from the sale of Frontier tickets," he said. "This change in established practices would have represented a material change to our cash forecasts and business plan. Unchecked, it would have put severe restraints on Frontier's liquidity and would have made it impossible for us to continue normal operations."

He said Frontier Holdings Inc. was prepared to litigate, if necessary.

The creditor listed in bankruptcy court documents as having the largest general unsecured claim against Frontier by far was Wells Fargo, with $93.5 million. Frontier said it had fewer than 50 creditors.

At the end of last year, Frontier said, it had assets of $98.3 million and debts of $92.2 million.

A Frontier spokesman said earlier this week the airline had "no concerns about bankruptcy" but added that it was working on strengthening its cash position.

Last month, Frontier said it had agreed to sell four planes to counter rising fuel costs.

Frontier shares lost most of their value in premarket trading Friday, tumbling $1.27 to 30 cents each.
===========================================

30 cents. They are done.
Click to expand...

Again, where does it say that Wells forced them into bankruptcy?

You're reaching Dave and it's pretty pathetic.
Click to expand...

Bolded for the reading impaired
Click to expand...

uh - Dave.

We realize that you are reading impaired.

Wells Fargo does not equal First Data.
Click to expand...

The first data came out in a subsequent article.

Doesn't matter both First Data and Wells Fargo are involved.
 
It's interesting when you live in an isolated tourist driven economy... you can tell when things slow down. With the loss of Aloha and ATA and the week-long shut down of thousands of AA flights it's become awful quiet over here. Not as many PT Cruisers and Sebring convertibles on the roads.

 
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