The imminent train wreck...

[BoberFett]

I bet that Democrats will actually be the ones to take the first move of deciding which they want to save and will jettison (or greatly scale back) the rest via means-testing or some other approach.

Only Nixon could go to China, as the saying goes.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

How about...you "Fiscal Conservatives" need to get your heads out of your asses and start acknowledging and addressing our nation's real economic problems. Address the problem of too little tax revenue and too much need for government expenditures--too much unemployment and too many low wage jobs.

That would require you guys to consider raising taxes on the Rich and, most importantly, to address the problem of Global Labor Arbitrage. Why don't you wise "Fiscal Conservatives" figure out a way to end foreign outsourcing, end the H-1B and L-1 visa programs, deport all of the illegals, and end mass immigration. (We know how to do all of this, the problem is one of will and desire, not ability.)

Of course, you guys won't do that because it contradicts your religious-like faith in free market ideals. Also, it would go against the interests of the Wealthy who want low-paid slave labor.

There's no "solving" global labor arbitrage. Our standard of living would drop drastically if we restricted trade so that's not a viable option. The only thing that we can do it try to become more competitive by increasing productivity and finding things that we have a competitive advantage at.

 

[zsdersw]

I didn't realize you could read their thoughts. Impressive.

I don't have to read their thoughts... I'm just familiar with their posts in other threads regarding the Tea Partiers.

 

[zsdersw]

Meh

The "imminent train wreck" is actually when it sinks in to a majority of citizens that the problem of funding these programs without cuts in payouts has no viable solution.

That's another imminent train wreck.. not the only one.

Sitting here debating how the political parties will transform the "debate" into a win for their own side, instead of a win for America, is just sad. This country is too damn pathetic.

I'm not talking about political parties... I'm talking about fiscal conservatives. I'm also not talking about a win for my "side"; it's about saving these programs without ruining the country.

 

[zsdersw]

How about...you "Fiscal Conservatives" need to get your heads out of your asses and start acknowledging and addressing our nation's real economic problems. Address the problem of too little tax revenue and too much need for government expenditures--too much unemployment and too many low wage jobs.

That would require you guys to consider raising taxes on the Rich and, most importantly, to address the problem of Global Labor Arbitrage. Why don't you wise "Fiscal Conservatives" figure out a way to end foreign outsourcing, end the H-1B and L-1 visa programs, deport all of the illegals, and end mass immigration. (We know how to do all of this, the problem is one of will and desire, not ability.)

Of course, you guys won't do that because it contradicts your religious-like faith in free market ideals. Also, it would go against the interests of the Wealthy who want low-paid slave labor.

Tell you what... we'll give up our "religious-like faith" in free markets if you give up your religious-like faith in government action as the solution to all or most of society's problems.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Meh

The "imminent train wreck" is actually when it sinks in to a majority of citizens that the problem of funding these programs without cuts in payouts has no viable solution.

Sitting here debating how the political parties will transform the "debate" into a win for their own side, instead of a win for America, is just sad. This country is too damn pathetic.

Haven't read every post yet, but this is the best one in this thread so far.

 

[FerrelGeek]

That's another imminent train wreck.. not the only one.



I'm not talking about political parties... I'm talking about fiscal conservatives. I'm also not talking about a win for my "side"; it's about saving these programs without ruining the country.

I don't think you can save them. The politics behind reform is way too strong.

 

[kage69]

I wish we could stop referring to Social Security as an entitlement - I've been paying into it since I was 15!

 

[Slew Foot]

The only thing that we can do it try to become more competitive by increasing productivity and finding things that we have a competitive advantage at.

Like solar energy panels.. er...wait....

 

[dank69]

I wish we could stop referring to Social Security as an entitlement - I've been paying into it since I was 15!

Well, 90% of the world's population has trouble with four syllable words, so, good luck with that.

 

[sm625]

It does not have to be a train wreck. They will just keep spending and keep giving everyone everything they want. Everyone will be happy. But the currency will be continually debased, and the banksters and their media control arms will conspire to manipulate the data to make it look as if the common man is not being bled like a stuck pig. 2% inflation! Ha! Soon they will remove all inflation pegs, then they will rape the everloving crap out of the people. And the people will still vote these same thugs back into power because they think they are doing a good job. And the absolute mass slaughter of the middle class will never ever be discussed. People will just quietly disappear into destitution. The fluoride in the water and the constant bombardment of radiation and cheap entertainment will prevent the riots and overthrow that would have otherwise already occurred. I am just awestruck by the utter stupidity of the people for allowing this to continue.

 

[Genx87]

... between the GOP, the Tea Partiers, and the immense popularity of entitlements.

Cuts to Medicare or Social Security will result in huge wins for Democrats, as senior citizens can always be counted on to vote in record numbers.

How are us fiscal conservatives going to win this battle before it's too late?

Yes, there isn't a news story in the OP of this thread, but that's too bad. It's politics, so it should be open to discussion here

Unfortunately the bottom line is we cant win the battle until it all comes crashing down. Anytime entitlements are even talked about the "Throw granny or children onto the street" argument comes out. How does one effectively make an argument against that? When it all comes crashing down and they are tossed out for real. Then the real debate can start.

 

[Mursilis]

I wish we could stop referring to Social Security as an entitlement - I've been paying into it since I was 15!

So? Most people who paid into the system receive far more in benefits than they ever paid in, including a reasonable rate of return. You might as well say "I have an account at this bank, so I should be able to take as much as I like from the vault!"

 

[K1052]

It does not have to be a train wreck. They will just keep spending and keep giving everyone everything they want. Everyone will be happy. But the currency will be continually debased, and the banksters and their media control arms will conspire to manipulate the data to make it look as if the common man is not being bled like a stuck pig. 2% inflation! Ha! Soon they will remove all inflation pegs, then they will rape the everloving crap out of the people. And the people will still vote these same thugs back into power because they think they are doing a good job. And the absolute mass slaughter of the middle class will never ever be discussed. People will just quietly disappear into destitution. The fluoride in the water and the constant bombardment of radiation and cheap entertainment will prevent the riots and overthrow that would have otherwise already occurred. I am just awestruck by the utter stupidity of the people for allowing this to continue.

Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face?

 

[YoungGun21]

It will be a train wreak, and that's the solution. When we emerge from that disaster, this will be a great nation again.

People with this mindset scare me.

How do you know that we will emerge a great nation?

Even if that statement is true (which is a huge assumption), it isn't going happen overnight. The death of this nation will be a long one, and its rebirth even longer. It may take hundreds of years to get back in even just decent shape, and we may never regain our top spot among the world.

Is this what you want?

 

[dank69]

People with this mindset scare me.

How do you know that we will emerge a great nation?

Even if that statement is true (which is a huge assumption), it isn't going happen overnight. The death of this nation will be a long one, and its rebirth even longer. It may take hundreds of years to get back in even just decent shape, and we may never regain our top spot among the world.

Is this what you want?

But I read about the American Revolution in 30 minutes. 30 minutes isn't a long time. Just kidding, I got bored after 5 minutes, but I have a pretty good idea of what went down.

 

[kage69]

So? Most people who paid into the system receive far more in benefits than they ever paid in, including a reasonable rate of return. You might as well say "I have an account at this bank, so I should be able to take as much as I like from the vault!"

Really? You're equating my distaste of having the money that I earned labeled an "entitlement" to a desire to fleece the system for more than I am owed?

All I want is what is due to me, I have no interest in taking advantage of an already strained system. I resent it when things I have earned are deemed a handout by others, don't you?

 

[sarsipias1234]

People have rioted a lot in America from injustice.

Here's a list of the top ten:

http://www.forensiccolleges.net/blog/2010/10-worst-riots-in-american-history/

Here in California they have made serious cuts to social services which will no doubt have people rioting in the streets from negligent health care.

The health care system for the poor is already terrible so to cut these services is to make a terrible situation horrifying.

 

[Mursilis]

Really? You're equating my distaste of having the money that I earned labeled an "entitlement" to a desire to fleece the system for more than I am owed?

All I want is what is due to me, I have no interest in taking advantage of an already strained system. I resent it when things I have earned are deemed a handout by others, don't you?

The reason why it's a "strained system" is because people (mostly the early recipients) are receiving far more from SS than they ever paid in. That's when SS is accurately labeled an entitlement.
See this study: http://www.urban.org/publications/412281.html

 

[BoberFett]

Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face?

I first became aware of it during the physical act of love...

 

[WhipperSnapper]

There's no "solving" global labor arbitrage. Our standard of living would drop drastically if we restricted trade so that's not a viable option.

Could you please explain why our standard of living would decrease? Right now and for the past several decades we've been losing hundreds of billions of dollars each year to free trade (our trade deficit), and it's not just in the area of oil purchases.

The only thing that we can do it try to become more competitive by increasing productivity and finding things that we have a competitive advantage at.

The problem is that technological advances that increase productivity can also be implemented in China where the standard of living (purchasing power of the workers) is much lower than it is here. The only way we'll ever be able to compete is by accepting the Chinese, Indian, and Mexican standard of living (third world wages) and by eliminating our environmental and labor regulations.

 

[dank69]

I first became aware of it during the physical act of love...

Coitus?

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Tell you what... we'll give up our "religious-like faith" in free markets if you give up your religious-like faith in government action as the solution to all or most of society's problems.

But I don't have a religious-like faith in socialism. I'm an advocate of a mixed economy--an advocate of having free market elements in some areas and government regulation in others.

In fact, as difficult as this may be to believe, years ago I was a staunch advocate of Ayn Rand's Objectivist philosophy and thus laissez-faire capitalism. So, I understand the arguments in favor of capitalism and the problems with socialism.

It might be better to think of me as an economic agnostic or pragmatist. Right now the scale in this country is tilted toward free market policies and a huge swath of the public buys into the free market religion. So if I sound like I'm anti-capitalist, it's not that I am an inherent opponent of free market ideals, just that that's what's on my radar right now.

 

[sarsipias1234]

The reason why it's a "strained system" is because people (mostly the early recipients) are receiving far more from SS than they ever paid in. That's when SS is accurately labeled an entitlement.
See this study: http://www.urban.org/publications/412281.html

Interesting to note that the average payout went up about 5 times since 1960 which is about how much medical cost have risen during the same time.

No doubt medical costs are responsible for the majority of these rise in costs.

A lot of SS is wasted on medical fraud. The attorney general has recently declared the medical industry the most corrupt industry in America.

“Inflating individual health care claims by even small amounts can cause significant losses to Medicare and Medicaid,” said Tony West, Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Division of the Department of Justice. “Taxpayers should not be on the hook for charges that shouldn’t have been added or claims that shouldn’t have been submitted.”

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2011/September/11-civ-1129.html

 

[Drako]

I first became aware of it during the physical act of love...

I do not avoid women, Mandrake. But I do deny them my essence.