The iCar

[chess9]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11...riedman.html?th&emc=th

Detroit now wants huge amounts of bailout money to do 'innovation'. As Friedman notes, they've been doing accounting, and it hasn't worked well. Should we be bailing out an industry with a failed paradigm-at least as practiced in Detroit? Why should any of the current executives in Detroit stay when they've failed their company, their country, and their employees?

We need new leaders in Detroit (and Washington). People with fresh ideas, integrity, and enough chutzpah to move the American auto industry forward. Steve Jobs as Chairman and CEO of GM is probably a good start. But, would he be dumb enough to take that job? I don't think so.... But the idea of an iCar is brilliant!

-Robert

 

[Red Dawn]

Bring in the Japanese. We helped them rebuild their economy after the war, they can return the favor with our Auto Manufacturers

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Bring in the Japanese. We helped them rebuild their economy after the war, they can return the favor with our Auto Manufacturers

Red, if there was a handshake emoticon, it would be extended to you. This is sheer brilliance!

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Bring in the Japanese. We helped them rebuild their economy after the war, they can return the favor with our Auto Manufacturers

Yep, bring them in and have current management train them for a month on what they do day to day, then send them packing with severance and let somebody who actually knows how to run a car company run GM, Chrysler, Ford.

 

[nonameo]

IMO the Japanese do a better job running their auto businesses than we do ours. I wouldn't feel bad if they took over.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Bring in the Japanese. We helped them rebuild their economy after the war, they can return the favor with our Auto Manufacturers

LOL! Oh, the irony. Erm, well maybe the aluminity.

Anyone but our business school graduates. I'd suggest we fire all the professors at the top 20 American Schools of Business and find some that aren't teaching Golden Parachutes 101, Outsourcing the American Way-Principles and Practices, Government Welfare for the Very Rich, Selling America Short-Keeping Down with the Joneses, Investment Banking Scams Proven to Work, and my personal favorite BRIBING CONGRESSMEN FOR FUN AND PROFIT-a Primer for the Budding Banker.

-Robert

 

[Pepsei]

does it have an usb interface for my desktop?

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: Pepsei
does it have an usb interface for my desktop?

Of course, with a wireless hub, 'n' compatible of course, iTunes and iPhone built in and wireless too. I want to see the iPurchase Plan though. And the iPrice.

-Robert

 

[Stoneburner]

Its lack of a windshield is a feature.

 

[Ktulu]

I think the only thing Steve Jobs would be able to do is give GM an automatic boost in public perception. GM would still be tied down with all the crap that's been keeping them down. I'd wait to see what comes of GM's turnaround plan, they were able to make some big moves to trim alot of fat but unfortunately won't see returns till ~2010.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Bring in the Japanese. We helped them rebuild their economy after the war, they can return the favor with our Auto Manufacturers

LOL! Oh, the irony. Erm, well maybe the aluminity.

Anyone but our business school graduates. I'd suggest we fire all the professors at the top 20 American Schools of Business and find some that aren't teaching Golden Parachutes 101, Outsourcing the American Way-Principles and Practices, Government Welfare for the Very Rich, Selling America Short-Keeping Down with the Joneses, Investment Banking Scams Proven to Work, and my personal favorite BRIBING CONGRESSMEN FOR FUN AND PROFIT-a Primer for the Budding Banker.

-Robert

i think the best trick would be to make them learn some economic history.

 

[Budmantom]

The big three have a handicap when it comes to competing with the Japanese car makers and it's the unions and the legacy costs, if they could get rid of them they would be profitable again.

The Dem's run the unions or do the unions run the Dem's(?) and they wont let the big 3 separate from one another, thats why the Dem's are backing the bailout (of the unions), if they go bankrupt they may be able to get rid of the unions and legacy costs and they will be profitable again.

In my opinion the only way for the automakers to become profitable again is to go bankrupt, restructure and they can and will be competitive with the foreign automakers.

 

[shocksyde]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Bring in the Japanese. We helped them rebuild their economy after the war, they can return the favor with our Auto Manufacturers

Does that mean they get to pick 2 cities to hit with an atomic weapon? I nominate Detroit! Wait...

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: shocksyde

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Bring in the Japanese. We helped them rebuild their economy after the war, they can return the favor with our Auto Manufacturers

Does that mean they get to pick 2 cities to hit with an atomic weapon? I nominate Detroit! Wait...

Be careful he's a leftist

 

[alchemize]

I'm a big Friedman fan, and as usual he makes good sense. Of course - the key point of his article wasn't the iCar, that was the catch line. Here's the key words, which was Paul Ingrassia's idea:


?In return for any direct government aid,? he wrote, ?the board and the management [of G.M.] should go. Shareholders should lose their paltry remaining equity. And a government-appointed receiver ? someone hard-nosed and nonpolitical ? should have broad power to revamp G.M. with a viable business plan and return it to a private operation as soon as possible. That will mean tearing up existing contracts with unions, dealers and suppliers, closing some operations and selling others and downsizing the company ... Giving G.M. a blank check ? which the company and the United Auto Workers union badly want, and which Washington will be tempted to grant ? would be an enormous mistake.?


I mean by god, this is the company that actually managed to innovate with Saturn, and then never spun it off and instead sucked it into the vortex of suck.

 

[Lemon law]

Offer them a big bonus only after they totally succeed, if they can do it, but only $40,000 max a year if they can't, no exceptions, CEO included. And no money until the engineering blueprints are up front. Stockholders have to be all in also, they fail, and the government owns it, and will sell all to the highest bidder. Proceeds to be used to repay loans, the rest in trust for healthcare and pensions obligations, management left out in the cold.

 

[ElFenix]

This included striking special deals with Congress that allowed the Detroit automakers to count the mileage of gas guzzlers as being less than they really were ? provided they made some cars flex-fuel capable for ethanol.

i think that had as much to do with corn state politics as detroit

He has been quoted as saying that hybrids like the Toyota Prius ?make no economic sense.?

well, they don't make accounting sense from a buyer's perspective, up until very recently at least. however, GM severely underestimated the fact that people would buy what is otherwise a pretty crappy car for the smug factor once toyota figured out that people will buy a prius that screams 'look at me.' nissan doesn't think they make economic sense either. honda's hybrid accord made such great economic sense they pulled it from the market!

And please, spare me the alligator tears about G.M.?s health care costs. Sure, they are outrageous. ?But then why did G.M. refuse to lift a finger to support a national health care program when Hillary Clinton was pushing for it?? asks Dan Becker, a top environmental lobbyist.

would it have lowered costs any? nothing in the wikipedia entry for the 1993 plan screams 'savings' at me.

Originally posted by: shocksyde

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Bring in the Japanese. We helped them rebuild their economy after the war, they can return the favor with our Auto Manufacturers

Does that mean they get to pick 2 cities to hit with an atomic weapon? I nominate Detroit! Wait...

that would improve the area

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Budmantom
The big three have a handicap when it comes to competing with the Japanese car makers and it's the unions and the legacy costs, if they could get rid of them they would be profitable again.

The Dem's run the unions or do the unions run the Dem's(?) and they wont let the big 3 separate from one another, thats why the Dem's are backing the bailout (of the unions), if they go bankrupt they may be able to get rid of the unions and legacy costs and they will be profitable again.

In my opinion the only way for the automakers to become profitable again is to go bankrupt, restructure and they can and will be competitive with the foreign automakers.

That's probably the case.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Budmantom
The big three have a handicap when it comes to competing with the Japanese car makers and it's the unions and the legacy costs, if they could get rid of them they would be profitable again.

The Dem's run the unions or do the unions run the Dem's(?) and they wont let the big 3 separate from one another, thats why the Dem's are backing the bailout (of the unions), if they go bankrupt they may be able to get rid of the unions and legacy costs and they will be profitable again.

In my opinion the only way for the automakers to become profitable again is to go bankrupt, restructure and they can and will be competitive with the foreign automakers.

I hate that companies are able to make labor contracts and hten get out of it by declaring bankruptcy.

Also, iirc union legacy costs are less than their management legacy costs. I wonder if GM and other companies being killed by retiree and employee healthcare costs would support UHC in 1994?

 

[miketheidiot]

i'll say this: GM makes good cars, and if i were in the market for a car right now they would be at the top of the list.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Budmantom
The big three have a handicap when it comes to competing with the Japanese car makers and it's the unions and the legacy costs, if they could get rid of them they would be profitable again.

The Dem's run the unions or do the unions run the Dem's(?) and they wont let the big 3 separate from one another, thats why the Dem's are backing the bailout (of the unions), if they go bankrupt they may be able to get rid of the unions and legacy costs and they will be profitable again.

In my opinion the only way for the automakers to become profitable again is to go bankrupt, restructure and they can and will be competitive with the foreign automakers.

I hate that companies are able to make labor contracts and hten get out of it by declaring bankruptcy.

Also, iirc union legacy costs are less than their management legacy costs. I wonder if GM and other companies being killed by retiree and employee healthcare costs would support UHC in 1994?

Friedman comments in his article that they basically said nothing during the healthcare fight, but one would think that a National Health Service with Universal Health Care would be a boon to many businesses if properly structured.

-Robert

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Budmantom
The big three have a handicap when it comes to competing with the Japanese car makers and it's the unions and the legacy costs, if they could get rid of them they would be profitable again.

The Dem's run the unions or do the unions run the Dem's(?) and they wont let the big 3 separate from one another, thats why the Dem's are backing the bailout (of the unions), if they go bankrupt they may be able to get rid of the unions and legacy costs and they will be profitable again.

In my opinion the only way for the automakers to become profitable again is to go bankrupt, restructure and they can and will be competitive with the foreign automakers.

I hate that companies are able to make labor contracts and hten get out of it by declaring bankruptcy.

Also, iirc union legacy costs are less than their management legacy costs. I wonder if GM and other companies being killed by retiree and employee healthcare costs would support UHC in 1994?

The other option may be to shut down completely.

I wonder what is considered management and how many people are considered management.

What is UHC?

 

[Stoneburner]

Typical nonsense. It's the labor union's fault that euros and jabonese make better cars than the big 3?

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Typical nonsense. It's the labor union's fault that euros and jabonese make better cars than the big 3?

I recently spoke with a lawyer that specialized in union litigation and he told me that operating costs go up on average 28% after a company goes union.

Little old but interesting numbers.

 

[compuwiz1]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Bring in the Japanese. We helped them rebuild their economy after the war, they can return the favor with our Auto Manufacturers

That is a very brilliant idea, especially coming from you. j/k

Seriously though, they're already here building cars in America. The big three should maybe tour their Toyota and Honda plants. It might give them a clue about quality control. We could watch how they make things and how they run their labor / pay standards, etc.