the hiroshima pictures

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Andrew111

Originally posted by: Aimster
Help me understand this & correct me where I am wrong.

Japan attacked the U.S. Japan's military might was weakened.
U.S wanted the Japanese to surrender, but the Japanese refused.
Japan was incapable of attacking the U.S because their military might was weakened.

As a result of the Japanese not surrendering, we nuked them.

Now let's compare this situation:

Iraq was a military might in the early 1990s. Iraq's military might was weakened
U.S wanted the Iraqis to surrender, but the Iraqis refused (U.S told Iraq that the regime must resign. Saddam had to step down).
Iraq was incapable of attacking the U.S or anyone else because their military might was weakened.

As a result of the Iraqis not surrendering, we nuked them.

So would it have been justified to have nuked Iraq to save 3,000 soldier's lives?

They still posed a threat.......are you saying we just forget everything that happened and sing kumbaya? That's ridiculous.........we may have beaten them back but if you don't eliminate the threat they will come back to bite you later on.

How were they a threat?

Their navy would have been reduced to zero. correct me if I am wrong, but their navy was pretty much destroyed before the bombs were dropped.

They are an Island. All we had to do was surround that Island and make sure nothing was to have come in or out.

Without a Navy Japan posed no threat. With the U.S in control of Japan's waters, Japan would have been incapable of building a navy.

Without food imports millions of Japanese would have died as a result of famine, the 1945 rice crop failed and the US had demolished inter-island shipping and train services.

We could have allowed food imports

We did basically the same thing to Iraq after their military was embarrased and destroyed.

Iraq had a million man army. They had all the fancy toys from mother Russia.

When their military was destroyed we basically patrolled their skies and we made sure they got no weapons or any tools that could help them build their own weapons. I remember Iraq purchased 500,000 Playstation 2 systems and the world was reacting saying they could be used as "dual-use" for weapons.

Iraq still got imports of food, electronics, etc. Their economy was just crap because we sanctioned them.

Japan had to surrender or be completely defeated, the entire ware effort was predicated on that requirement. Your solution would have meant the indefinate military blockade of Japan, I daresay that is not terribly practical either.

Russia was soon to enter the fray as well and Truman has misgivings (well founded as it turned out) about their designs for the areas they "liberated".

Iraq fought the US using outdated equipment and tactics that the US had wargamed countless times to face the Soviets (which would only work for them due to huge numerical superiority). Iraq also never attacked the US directly ala Pearl Harbor.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Andrew111
We could go back and forth on this forever..........they decided to drop the atomic bombs after weighing all possible options. It saved lives....it was the one method they decided would end the war while inflicting the least amount of casualties in the long run.

Yeah..I don't know how they could have not used the Atomic bomb considering how many lives/time it saved.

 

[Aimster]

Why did we have to have it in writting that the Japanese surrendered when their military was turned into a pile of crap?

Allowing food imports would have been possible. We didn't have to sanction food imports to Japan.

We controlled Iraq for 10 years. We could have controlled them for much longer, but Bush got war hungry.

As far as their manpower goes on the mainland, it is pretty much identical to China-Taiwan.
China cannot invade Taiwan with their million man army because their Navy sucks (well it doesn't suck, it is "good" but they cannot transport enough men to Taiwan for a successful invasion.

My entire point is without a Navy these countries couldn't hurt anyone. Their million man armies would be stuck and incapable of moving anywhere.

 

[Andrew111]

Originally posted by: maddogchen
Japan still had a million man strong army on mainland Asia wrecking havoc on China and controlling large swaths of South Asia. They couldn't wait to take out the Chinese and turning their attention to the US.

It was so stupid for Japan to start a two-front war.

Hell, we could all be speaking German if Hitler hadn't split his forces so much fighting in Europe, Russia, and Africa.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

They had two huge armies in China. One in the North the other in the South.
We were also worried about Mao, plus the citizens of the US were war weary.

Very few of the Nipponese troops in China at the end of the war made it home.
The units in the North provided slave labor for the Russians...Tis true!
The Russians were supposed to release them after several years but didn't.

The troops in the South were supposed to fight along side Chang Chi Chek..This is also true


...Galvanized

 

[uhohs]

a prolonged blockade = russians entering the pacific theatre and claiming japan or atleast parts of it. which might've eventually lead to direct conflict with the USA.

japan would be a craphole today if that happened.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Andrew111

Originally posted by: maddogchen
Japan still had a million man strong army on mainland Asia wrecking havoc on China and controlling large swaths of South Asia. They couldn't wait to take out the Chinese and turning their attention to the US.

It was so stupid for Japan to start a two-front war.

Hell, we could all be speaking German if Hitler hadn't split his forces so much fighting in Europe, Russia, and Africa.

Not quite...I can't imagine Nazi Germany ever having the capability to launch a full scale invasion of the US, even if their forces had not been so split up...not to mention succeeding.

 

[Aimster]

Face it ... we nuked Japan because

We got tired of the very long war. We didn't want to do a naval blockade. Nobody would feel as if we won by doing that. People at home wouldn't be cheering.

We wanted to send our boys home and we wanted to say "in your face bitches" and have the U.S citizens dance on the streets and celebrate. Remember, we hated the Japs. They were pigs to us back then.

Plus we got an amazing new weapon. We wanted to test that bad boy out.

Show the world that nobody better mess with the U.S again.

The nuking of Japan was all for political reasons. It was not to save lives.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Face it ... we nuked Japan because

We got tired of the very long war. We didn't want to do a naval blockade. Nobody would feel as if we won by doing that. People at home wouldn't be cheering.

We wanted to send our boys home and we wanted to say "in your face bitches" and have the U.S citizens dance on the streets and celebrate. Remember, we hated the Japs. They were pigs to us back then.

Plus we got an amazing new weapon. We wanted to test that bad boy out.

Show the world that nobody better mess with the U.S again.

The nuking of Japan was all for political reasons. It was not to save lives.

You are a troll

 

[Andrew111]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Andrew111

Originally posted by: maddogchen
Japan still had a million man strong army on mainland Asia wrecking havoc on China and controlling large swaths of South Asia. They couldn't wait to take out the Chinese and turning their attention to the US.

It was so stupid for Japan to start a two-front war.

Hell, we could all be speaking German if Hitler hadn't split his forces so much fighting in Europe, Russia, and Africa.

Not quite...I can't imagine Nazi Germany ever having the capability to launch a full scale invasion of the US, even if their forces had not been so split up...not to mention succeeding.

Yeah, that would be hard. I always used to watch History Channel shows on WW2 and it sounded like every decision Hitler made was not in the best interest of his military. He should have let his top military officials do the planning as they knew what they were doing.

 

[LongCoolMother]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
Aimster,

Google Sino-Japanese War, then study for a month.

The insane head had to be chopped off for the terrible body to surrender.

You are just as pig headed here as you are over at P&N


...Galvanized

You are missing the point

Japan was not a threat to anyone if they had no Navy.

What difference does it make if their people wanted to surrender or not? They are on an Island.

you have no idea. Japan was wreaking havoc in China until the day they surrendered. Rape of Nanking wasn't an isolated incident-- only the largest, most well known one. Those types of atrocities were occuring all over China for the entire duration of the war.

 

[Andrew111]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Face it ... we nuked Japan because

We got tired of the very long war. We didn't want to do a naval blockade. Nobody would feel as if we won by doing that. People at home wouldn't be cheering.

We wanted to send our boys home and we wanted to say "in your face bitches" and have the U.S citizens dance on the streets and celebrate. Remember, we hated the Japs. They were pigs to us back then.

Plus we got an amazing new weapon. We wanted to test that bad boy out.

Show the world that nobody better mess with the U.S again.

The nuking of Japan was all for political reasons. It was not to save lives.

Well, ignorance is bliss eh.

 

[randay]

Please for the love of fvck, please stop saying that the Japanese would have been suicidal. That is completely the wrong word to use.

 

[acole1]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Face it ... we nuked Japan because

We got tired of the very long war. We didn't want to do a naval blockade. Nobody would feel as if we won by doing that. People at home wouldn't be cheering.

We wanted to send our boys home and we wanted to say "in your face bitches" and have the U.S citizens dance on the streets and celebrate. Remember, we hated the Japs. They were pigs to us back then.

Plus we got an amazing new weapon. We wanted to test that bad boy out.

Show the world that nobody better mess with the U.S again.

The nuking of Japan was all for political reasons. It was not to save lives.

Wow, glad you are sooo enlightened to the thoughts of world leaders 60 years ago. If only we were so gifted as you!

:disgust: Oh look, another pacifist nutjob who twists the truth to make his point.

Go back to P&N. Or maybe this is news...
***HEADLINE***
Professors for years have been wrong about why we nuked Japan! Aimster KNOWS ALL!!!

 

[uhohs]

Face it ... we nuked Japan because

A naval blockade would've been impractical. Especially with the Russians gearing up to join in.

We wanted to send our boys home in one piece. We wanted to send our boys home soon.

We wanted to rebuild/change the country into something that wouldn't be a future military threat.

A invasion would've been absolutely nuts, we had been fighting the Japanese for years and knew how bad an invasion of their home would be.

To assert technological and military dominance over the Soviets.

The nuking of Japan had political reasons, everything has political reasons. But the important thing is that in the long run, it probably/almost certainly saved lives on both sides.

 

[Andrew111]

Originally posted by: randay
Please for the love of fvck, please stop saying that the Japanese would have been suicidal. That is completely the wrong word to use.

Uhhhhhhh...........what word to use then? They had actually designed planes with the sole purpose of ramming them into Allied ships......and the code of Bushido did instill in them the glories of killing oneself for the greater good.

 

[acole1]

Originally posted by: randay
Please for the love of fvck, please stop saying that the Japanese would have been suicidal. That is completely the wrong word to use.

Many did kill themselves after Japan surrendered... I would call that suicide. I don't know about you though.

They were freakishly dedicated to the cause. :frown:

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: acole1

Originally posted by: Aimster
Face it ... we nuked Japan because

We got tired of the very long war. We didn't want to do a naval blockade. Nobody would feel as if we won by doing that. People at home wouldn't be cheering.

We wanted to send our boys home and we wanted to say "in your face bitches" and have the U.S citizens dance on the streets and celebrate. Remember, we hated the Japs. They were pigs to us back then.

Plus we got an amazing new weapon. We wanted to test that bad boy out.

Show the world that nobody better mess with the U.S again.

The nuking of Japan was all for political reasons. It was not to save lives.

Wow, glad you are sooo enlightened to the thoughts of world leaders 60 years ago. If only we were so gifted as you!

:disgust: Oh look, another pacifist nutjob who twists the truth to make his point.

Go back to P&N. Or maybe this is news...
***HEADLINE***
Professors for years have been wrong about why we nuked Japan! Aimster KNOWS ALL!!!

You obviously cannot add any educational or factual information to your post other than pure crap.

I see your post totally put my beliefs to shame. I give up. You win genius one.

Maybe you all do not go to P&N because you cannot have a nice debate. All you do is mock and insult.

If you noticed the people who are actually debating with me are providing their own beliefs filled with fact. They are not making worthless immature uneducated post that simply have no substance to them.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: acole1

Originally posted by: randay
Please for the love of fvck, please stop saying that the Japanese would have been suicidal. That is completely the wrong word to use.

Many did kill themselves after Japan surrendered... I would call that suicide. I don't know about you though.

They were freakishly dedicated to the cause. :frown:

There is what happened on Okinawa as well.

 

[uhohs]

with a blockade and no surrender, we would be spending years fighting them in parts of China/Asia.

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: uhohs
a prolonged blockade = russians entering the pacific theatre and claiming japan or atleast parts of it. which might've eventually lead to direct conflict with the USA.

japan would be a craphole today if that happened.

The japanese cultured was basically destroyed after WWII, and I doubt Japan will rise anywhere near how it was before anytime soon.

The atomic bomb can be argued about. Yes, it most likely saved lives. Yes, millions of people died other places. However, none of these facts should prevent you from acknowledging the tragedy. You don't have to cry, mope, and complain about it, but you should at least feel a little sad that OTHER PEOPLE DIED. Whether they were civilians or soldiers, thousands died. You should be depressed that such an atrocity happened, just as you should be depressed with the rest of the death occuring during the war.

Some of you type as if you are glad thousands of civilians died. It is terrifying. Don't hate a whole country of people because of how their goverment directs them. Some of you type as if, had you the power, you world have decimated every last person on Japan.

You don't have to feel guilty about the decision, but acknowledge the tragedy of death, in any way.

 

[acole1]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: acole1

Originally posted by: Aimster
Face it ... we nuked Japan because

We got tired of the very long war. We didn't want to do a naval blockade. Nobody would feel as if we won by doing that. People at home wouldn't be cheering.

We wanted to send our boys home and we wanted to say "in your face bitches" and have the U.S citizens dance on the streets and celebrate. Remember, we hated the Japs. They were pigs to us back then.

Plus we got an amazing new weapon. We wanted to test that bad boy out.

Show the world that nobody better mess with the U.S again.

The nuking of Japan was all for political reasons. It was not to save lives.

Wow, glad you are sooo enlightened to the thoughts of world leaders 60 years ago. If only we were so gifted as you!

:disgust: Oh look, another pacifist nutjob who twists the truth to make his point.

Go back to P&N. Or maybe this is news...
***HEADLINE***
Professors for years have been wrong about why we nuked Japan! Aimster KNOWS ALL!!!

You obviously cannot add any educational or factual information to your post other than pure crap.

I see your post totally put my beliefs to shame. I give up. You win genius one.

Maybe you all do not go to P&N because you cannot have a nice debate. All you do is mock and insult.

If you noticed the people who are actually debating with me are providing their own beliefs filled with fact. They are not making worthless immature uneducated post that simply have no substance to them.

You have no fact!! It is pure opinion and speculation. No one knows what the actual reason was! It is all speculation. Just some speculate more accurate and reasonable than others.

Stop thinking you have figured out the real and secret reason that no one else was smart enough to figure out.

If you haven?t realized it already, you are making yourself look like a total idiot.

 

[uhohs]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: acole1

Originally posted by: randay
Please for the love of fvck, please stop saying that the Japanese would have been suicidal. That is completely the wrong word to use.

Many did kill themselves after Japan surrendered... I would call that suicide. I don't know about you though.

They were freakishly dedicated to the cause. :frown:

There is what happened on Okinawa as well.

they were often told that the Americans would torture/rape/etc them when captured. there were many cases where groups of people would kill themselves rather than be captured.

 

[Cattlegod]

You can't poke a stick at a lion and expect not to get bitten.

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: uhohs

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: acole1

Originally posted by: randay
Please for the love of fvck, please stop saying that the Japanese would have been suicidal. That is completely the wrong word to use.

Many did kill themselves after Japan surrendered... I would call that suicide. I don't know about you though.

They were freakishly dedicated to the cause. :frown:

There is what happened on Okinawa as well.

they were often told that the Americans would torture/rape/etc them when captured. there were many cases where groups of people would kill themselves rather than be captured.

Are you japanese, or just weeaboo?