The Haiti Thing

[Zorba]

From my perspective it never really had a chance.

It appears prior to 1915 the Germans, the French, and the US took turns kicking Haiti and looting* it.

*Minimal research on the subject makes it appear it was a cycle of predatory loans and concessions obtained through what is sometimes known as "gunboat diplomacy".

U.S. Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler said the following about his involvement in the banana wars: "I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism."

That's kind of what I figured. Probably pretty similar story to the rest of the Caribbean. I wish we could/would do something to help our closest neighbors, but don't think sending in troops is the right way to do that.

 

[Leeea]

That's kind of what I figured. Probably pretty similar story to the rest of the Caribbean. I wish we could/would do something to help our closest neighbors, but don't think sending in troops is the right way to do that.

Yea, no need to repeat the mistakes of the past, eh?

But we do need to help them. Yea, it was not just us that caused the problems, but we certainly contributed and bear responsibility.

Not to mention that doing nothing just moves the problems to our southern border, and then ultimately into our towns and neighborhoods.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

I say roll all the islands into one new state.

 

[hal2kilo]

From my perspective it never really had a chance.

It appears prior to 1915 the Germans, the French, and the US took turns kicking Haiti and looting* it.

*Minimal research on the subject makes it appear it was a cycle of predatory loans and concessions obtained through what is sometimes known as "gunboat diplomacy".

U.S. Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler said the following about his involvement in the banana wars: "I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism."

They had to audacity to free themselves from France, and then the "civilized world" turned their backs on them because they were just a bunch of "shithole" slaves whole stole stuff from the French.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Maybe we should just let 'em have at it .....

Gangs complicate Haiti effort to recover from assassination

The escalation of gang violence in Haiti threatens to complicate — and be aggravated by — political efforts to recover from last week’s brazen slaying of President Jovenel Moïse.

apnews.com

 

[BUTCH1]

Yea, no need to repeat the mistakes of the past, eh?

But we do need to help them. Yea, it was not just us that caused the problems, but we certainly contributed and bear responsibility.

Not to mention that doing nothing just moves the problems to our southern border, and then ultimately into our towns and neighborhoods.

My fear is if we don't provide some assistance at some point Haiti might devolve into the east coast version of Somalia . No one wants that.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I say nukem!!!

 

[pcgeek11]

Nice strawman. Anything inaccurate in the post?

Naw but its your fault. Really.

I really don't know, but was Haiti a truly functional country prior to 1915?

Probably.

No it isn't.

No, it has never been a fully functional country.

If we send in some military it will eventually be called an Invasion and we occupied their country and stole everything... Blah blah blah. We are better off to maybe aid them with the FBI investigation. No military. Why repeat the same mistakes over and over.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Probably.

No it isn't.

No, it has never been a fully functional country.

If we send in some military it will eventually be called an Invasion and we occupied their country and stole everything... Blah blah blah. We are better off to maybe aid them with the FBI investigation. No military. Why repeat the same mistakes over and over.

Well, as long as they weren't a functioning country, the who cares about it

"Probably", feel free to point out what was inaccurate in @Leeea 's post.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

So, it was a possible power play?

"During a new conference on Sunday, Haiti National Police Chief Leon Charles told reporters that they have detained Christian Emmanuel Sanon, a 63-year-old Florida-based physician, as a "central" suspect in Moise's assassination on Wednesday, The New York Times reported.


The chief of police said Sanon arrived by private plane in June with "political objectives" and contacted a Venezuelan security firm based in the United States to recruit operatives for the assassination, which he suggested was done with the intention for Sanon to become the next president.


As evidence of Sanon's involvement, Charles said one of the accused assailants who was arrested contacted Sanon after being detained. Police also confiscated from his home 20 boxes of bullets, 24 unused shooting targets, four Dominican Republic license plates and two vehicles, among other items.


At least 28 people, mostly Colombian, are believed to have been involved in the assassination, including two people other than Sanon with ties to the United States. Last week it was announced that James Solages and Joseph Vincent, two naturalized U.S. citizens who hold dual American and Haitian citizenship, were in Haitian police custody."

Haitian authorities arrest doctor with ties to U.S. over president's killing

Authorities in Haiti said they have arrested a Haitian-born doctor with ties to the United States in connection to last week's assassination of President Jovenele Moise.

www.upi.com

 

[pcgeek11]

Well, as long as they weren't a functioning country, the who cares about it

"Probably", feel free to point out what was inaccurate in @Leeea 's post.

We don't need to send troops everywhere in the world it hasn't worked so far.

I have no desire to grade his post as it has no bearing on the present and grossly misrepresents the US role in Haiti's history. We are not the world police and need to stop Nation Building. It is a waste of time money and people. You also cannot help those that refuse to help themselves.

In the long history of Haiti 1492 until present 529 years they have been poorly run and abused by Many Countries. Granted we did occupy them from 1915 until 1934 ( 19 years out of 529 years ). Right or wrong that doesn't make the US responsible for all of Haiti's ills past or present. To state otherwise is silly.

What was inaccurate in his post mainly was that he said the US turned Haiti into a shithole country ( his words not mine ). Well it was in that condition Long before the US had anything to do with it.

 

[ch33zw1z]

We don't need to send troops everywhere in the world it hasn't worked so far.

I have no desire to grade his post as it has no bearing on the present and grossly misrepresents the US role in Haiti's history. We are not the world police and need to stop Nation Building. It is a waste of time money and people. You also cannot help those that refuse to help themselves.

In the long history of Haiti 1492 until present 529 years they have been poorly run and abused by Many Countries. Granted we did occupy them from 1915 until 1934 ( 19 years out of 529 years ). Right or wrong that doesn't make the US responsible for all of Haiti's ills past or present. To state otherwise is silly.

What was inaccurate in his post mainly was that he said the US turned Haiti into a shithole country ( his words not mine ). Well it was in that condition Long before the US had anything to do with it.

I asked what specifically was inaccurate.

Shit hole country was the words of the man you voted for, twice.

I mean, the assertion that our actions then dont matter because the nation was already a shithole is pretty cool tho. Keep it real yo.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

A Florida friend of Sanon told The Associated Press that the suspect is an evangelical Christian pastor and a licensed physician in Haiti, but not in the U.S. The associate, who spoke on condition of anonymity out of safety concerns, said Sanon told him he was approached by people claiming to represent the U.S. State and Justice departments who wanted to install him as president.

He said the plan was for Moïse to be arrested, not killed, and Sanon would not have participated if he knew Moïse would be assassinated.

“I guarantee you that,” the associate said. “This was supposed to be a mission to save Haiti from hell, with support from the U.S. government.”
-------------------

Meanwhile, Colombia’s national police chief, Gen. Jorge Luis Vargas, said that a Florida-based enterprise, CTU Security, used its company credit card to buy 19 plane tickets from Bogota to Santo Domingo for the Colombian suspects. Most arrived in the Dominican Republic in June and moved into Haiti within weeks, Vargas said.

He said that Dimitri Hérard, head of general security at Haiti’s National Palace, flew to Colombia, Ecuador and Panama in the months before the assassination, and Colombian police are investigating whether he had any role in recruiting the mercenaries. In Haiti, prosecutors are seeking to interrogate Hérard over the assassination.

Florida suspect in Haiti president killing deepens mystery

The arrest of a failed Florida businessman in the assassination of Haiti’s president has deepened the mystery into an already convoluted plot.

apnews.com

Seems clear as mud so far.

 

[pcgeek11]

After all, it was the US that made these countries into the shitholes they are. It only seems fair we continue the abusive relationship and try to fix our mess a bit.


We broke it*.

I asked what specifically was inaccurate.

I answered you already.

What was inaccurate in his post mainly was that he said the US turned Haiti into a shithole country ( his words not mine ). Well it was in that condition Long before the US had anything to do with it.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I answered you already.

What was inaccurate in his post mainly was that he said the US turned Haiti into a shithole country ( his words not mine ). Well it was in that condition Long before the US had anything to do with it.

So the rest of it was accurate, right? Just this part, which is totally cool.

I mean, if the nations a shithole already, who cares if we shit on it some more, amirite?

#teamamericafuckyea

 

[pcgeek11]

So the rest of it was accurate, right? Just this part, which is totally cool.

I mean, if the nations a shithole already, who cares if we shit on it some more, amirite?

#teamamericafuckyea

So in your head not sending in the US Military is shitting on it?

Silly.

 

[ch33zw1z]

So in your head not sending in the US Military is shitting on it?

Silly.

Lol, nah bruh. But you've said that since Haiti is a shithole country already, us shitting on it is NBD. Nice.

Make up something else I've said, that was funny.

 

[pcgeek11]

But you've said that since Haiti is a shithole country already, us shitting on it is NBD. Nice.

Please provide me an exact quote where I said that or admit you are lying.

 

[pcgeek11]

I mean, if the nations a shithole already, who cares if we shit on it some more, amirite?

#teamamericafuckyea

Here is where you attempted to put those words in my mouth and failed.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Here is where you attempted to put those words in my mouth and failed.

Go back to your sarcastic strawman where I started replying to you

If anyone here is lying, it's you, and mostly to yourself.

Funny how this back and forth spiraled to you actually lying about what I've said, and demanding that I admit I was lying, even tho I've made the same point multiple times.

So, would you agree that using a straw man argument is a poor choice? Mine was intentional, was yours?

 

[pcgeek11]

Go back to your sarcastic strawman where I started replying to you

If anyone here is lying, it's you, and mostly to yourself.

Funny how this back and forth spiraled to you actually lying about what I've said, and demanding that I admit I was lying, even tho I've made the same point multiple times.

So, would you agree that using a straw man argument is a poor choice? Mine was intentional, was yours?

So you can't provide a quote.

OK. I'll take that as an admission you were lying about what I said.

I forgive you.

 

[herm0016]

I say roll all the islands into one new state.

so, we should take the land by force and disband their country so that we can be in control of it? oh, then, we can tell them all its for their own good and sign lots of treaties we never live up to....

My fear is if we don't provide some assistance at some point Haiti might devolve into the east coast version of Semolina. No one wants that.

that damn semolina, what's next, they change their name to couscous? They invent a delicious side dish?

 

[BUTCH1]

so, we should take the land by force and disband their country so that we can be in control of it? oh, then, we can tell them all its for their own good and sign lots of treaties we never live up to....



that damn semolina, what's next, they change their name to couscous? They invent a delicious side dish?

Oh shit LOL, glad you caught that!.

 

[ch33zw1z]

So you can't provide a quote.

OK. I'll take that as an admission you were lying about what I said.

I forgive you.

Provide one yourself. You don't know how this works. Many people are saying pcgeek said what he says he didn't say.

I mean, you literally are doing the thing you accuse others of.

You may want to look up what a strawman is. It's what you did in post #41 (What you call lying)

 

[pcgeek11]

Provide one yourself. You don't know how this works. Many people are saying pcgeek said what he says he didn't say.

I mean, you literally are doing the thing you accuse others of.

You may want to look up what a strawman is. It's what you did in post #41 (What you call lying)

As usual....