The 'Guns? Who needs guns?' Thread

[ImpulsE69]

Why just focus on guns when there are 1000's of ways to kill people?

We'll start with this gem.

https://www.apnews.com/71ef1f58bf18472092ba6acd2034b976

CHICAGO (AP) — A Chicago woman and her adult daughter were formally charged Wednesday in the killing of a pregnant teenager whose baby was cut from her womb with a butcher knife.

Clarisa Figueroa, 46, and her 24-year-old daughter, Desiree Figueroa, are charged with first-degree murder in the April 23 killing of 19-year-old Marlen Ochoa-Lopez, whose body was found last month in a garbage can behind the Figueroas’ house on the Southwest Side of Chicago. Clarisa Figueroa’s boyfriend, Piotr Bobak, is charged with concealing a homicide.

None of the three defendants spoke during the brief indictment hearing in Cook County court. About two dozen supporters of Ochoa-Lopez attended, but they didn’t speak to reporters after leaving.

Authorities contend that not long after Clarisa Figueroa’s adult son died of natural causes, she told her family she was pregnant. They say she plotted for months to acquire a newborn, and that she posted an ultrasound and photos of a room decorated for a baby on her Facebook page. In March, she and Ochoa-Lopez connected on a Facebook page for pregnant women

The two first met in person around April 1, when Ochoa-Lopez went to the Figueroas’ house and left unharmed, prosecutors allege. The teen returned on April 23 to accept Clarisa Figueroa’s offer of free baby clothes, and as Desiree Figueroa was showing Ochoa-Lopez a photo album of her late brother to distract her, Clarisa Figueroa sneaked up behind her and strangled her with a cord.

Once Ochoa-Lopez stopped showing signs of life, Clarisa Figueroa cut the baby from her womb and she and her daughter wrapped the teen’s body in a blanket, put it in a plastic bag and dragged it outside to a garbage can, according to prosecutors.

Later that day, Clarisa Figueroa called 911 claiming that her newborn baby wasn’t breathing. When first responders arrived, the child was blue. They tried to resuscitate the infant and took him to a hospital, where he remains in critical condition. Police have said the baby suffered severe brain damage and is unlikely to survive.

 

[nickqt]

Why just focus on guns when there are 1000's of ways to kill people?

We'll start with this gem.

https://www.apnews.com/71ef1f58bf18472092ba6acd2034b976

CHICAGO (AP) — A Chicago woman and her adult daughter were formally charged Wednesday in the killing of a pregnant teenager whose baby was cut from her womb with a butcher knife.

Clarisa Figueroa, 46, and her 24-year-old daughter, Desiree Figueroa, are charged with first-degree murder in the April 23 killing of 19-year-old Marlen Ochoa-Lopez, whose body was found last month in a garbage can behind the Figueroas’ house on the Southwest Side of Chicago. Clarisa Figueroa’s boyfriend, Piotr Bobak, is charged with concealing a homicide.

None of the three defendants spoke during the brief indictment hearing in Cook County court. About two dozen supporters of Ochoa-Lopez attended, but they didn’t speak to reporters after leaving.

Authorities contend that not long after Clarisa Figueroa’s adult son died of natural causes, she told her family she was pregnant. They say she plotted for months to acquire a newborn, and that she posted an ultrasound and photos of a room decorated for a baby on her Facebook page. In March, she and Ochoa-Lopez connected on a Facebook page for pregnant women

The two first met in person around April 1, when Ochoa-Lopez went to the Figueroas’ house and left unharmed, prosecutors allege. The teen returned on April 23 to accept Clarisa Figueroa’s offer of free baby clothes, and as Desiree Figueroa was showing Ochoa-Lopez a photo album of her late brother to distract her, Clarisa Figueroa sneaked up behind her and strangled her with a cord.

Once Ochoa-Lopez stopped showing signs of life, Clarisa Figueroa cut the baby from her womb and she and her daughter wrapped the teen’s body in a blanket, put it in a plastic bag and dragged it outside to a garbage can, according to prosecutors.

Later that day, Clarisa Figueroa called 911 claiming that her newborn baby wasn’t breathing. When first responders arrived, the child was blue. They tried to resuscitate the infant and took him to a hospital, where he remains in critical condition. Police have said the baby suffered severe brain damage and is unlikely to survive.

+5 Right-wing Authoritarian Cred points for using Chicago.

You're on your fucking game bro.

 

[dawp]

yup, a gun would have made killing the victim easier and avoided hurting the infant due to the lack of oxygen when the victim was strangled.

 

[DrDoug]

I prefer the stories of parents shooting their children coming home late after sneaking out. Just imagine if the parents would have had to resort to using a knife and looked the intruder in the eyes.

Their kid might still be alive today.

 

[brycejones]

Public health through anecdotes, seems legit OP.

 

[ch33zw1z]

We already focus on murders as a society. The anecdotal cherry picking of this horrible atrocity committed against this young woman is a pretty sad excuse to ignore numbers. How many cords and knifes are there in the world? Well, I have hundreds of cords near me most days, like most people. So to steal the gun nutters line, why should good cord users be punished. I submit, this thread wasn't thought thru.

 

[ImpulsE69]

+5 Right-wing Authoritarian Cred points for using Chicago.

You're on your fucking game bro.

Oh look, another, 'you don't agree with me so you're a right winger' post. How original and how wrong.

Here's todays left apparently
[L][R ________________ I________________________ G_________________________ H________________________ T]

 

[ImpulsE69]

We already focus on murders as a society. The anecdotal cherry picking of this horrible atrocity committed against this young woman is a pretty sad excuse to ignore numbers. How many cords and knifes are there in the world? Well, I have hundreds of cords near me most days, like most people. So to steal the gun nutters line, why should good cord users be punished. I submit, this thread wasn't thought thru.

It wasn't cherry picked. It was front page on my news feed. I thought it fit the start of a nice new thread to pull out the hypocrisy since murder is such a hot topic right now (if it is by guns). There will be more to come, the psychos never sleep. Anyone is free to add to it, only rule is that guns can't be involved. This way we can all feel warm and fuzzy when someone doesn't die by a gun. Maybe some of you will even feel a minor sense of accomplishment.

Murder gets sensationalized. Even if people suddenly quit killing people with guns, your news feeds would still be filled with murders front and center and there would be plenty to go around. Of course, then what will the agenda be? Who or what will you blame?

 

[purbeast0]

I fail to see the point of this thread because clearly it's intention is to not be about the story, but that is one messed up story.

 

[soundforbjt]

It wasn't cherry picked. It was front page on my news feed. I thought it fit the start of a nice new thread to pull out the hypocrisy since murder is such a hot topic right now (if it is by guns). There will be more to come, the psychos never sleep. Anyone is free to add to it, only rule is that guns can't be involved. This way we can all feel warm and fuzzy when someone doesn't die by a gun. Maybe some of you will even feel a minor sense of accomplishment.

Murder gets sensationalized. Even if people suddenly quit killing people with guns, your news feeds would still be filled with murders front and center and there would be plenty to go around. Of course, then what will the agenda be? Who or what will you blame?

When you get a story of over 50 killed and hundreds injured by one person from inside a hotel room with something other than a gun, please post it.

 

[brycejones]

It wasn't cherry picked. It was front page on my news feed. I thought it fit the start of a nice new thread to pull out the hypocrisy since murder is such a hot topic right now (if it is by guns). There will be more to come, the psychos never sleep. Anyone is free to add to it, only rule is that guns can't be involved. This way we can all feel warm and fuzzy when someone doesn't die by a gun. Maybe some of you will even feel a minor sense of accomplishment.

Murder gets sensationalized. Even if people suddenly quit killing people with guns, your news feeds would still be filled with murders front and center and there would be plenty to go around. Of course, then what will the agenda be? Who or what will you blame?

It was cherry picked by an algorithm for your consumption. Congratulations the internet knows you like murder porn.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I fail to see the point of this thread because clearly it's intention is to not be about the story, but that is one messed up story.

How is people being messed up not part of the point and how can you not see that?

 

[SMOGZINN]

Yes, you can kill a person with anything, and no matter what we do people will kill. That is all the more reason to limit their ability to do so in large numbers. That is why we ban fully automatic weapons. It is why we ban bombs. It is why we ban grenades.

It is not, and has never been, about stopping people from killing. We know that is going to happen. It is about limiting how many they can kill before we can stop them.

 

[purbeast0]

How is people being messed up not part of the point and how can you not see that?

The fact that you have a topic about guns but an article about someone being strangled and then her baby cut out is where I'm not seeing WTF your point is.

 

[dank69]

Oh look, another, 'you don't agree with me so you're a right winger' post. How original and how wrong.

Here's todays left apparently
[L][R ________________ I________________________ G_________________________ H________________________ T]

Delightfully distorted view of reality, of course. I am as liberal as they come, and also as libertarian as I can be. As far as I am concerned, the government shouldn't be taking away rights from people unless they can demonstrate that doing so will reduce suffering, and that calculus includes the suffering of people who are losing their right to own guns. Hell, a few years ago I posted on this very forum that I thought it should be legal for private citizens to own any weapon, right up to and including nukes/missiles/fighter jets, because A) most people can't afford to acquire that shit anyway, and B) I don't think anyone that could afford to acquire them would actually want to acquire them let alone use them. If someone can afford to acquire them and wants to use them, a law saying they can't certainly isn't going to stop them.

However, since then I have seen the statistics and they don't lie. Reducing the number of guns in circulation will drastically reduce the number of people killed by them and drastically reduce suicides and accidental deaths. It is good policy. That does not mean I support gun-grabbing. It means I support common-sense laws that incentivize people to stop acquiring them, get rid of them, and limit the amount of damage people can do with them.

 

[ImpulsE69]

However, since then I have seen the statistics and they don't lie. Reducing the number of guns in circulation will drastically reduce the number of people killed by them and drastically reduce suicides and accidental deaths. It is good policy. That does not mean I support gun-grabbing. It means I support common-sense laws that incentivize people to stop acquiring them, get rid of them, and limit the amount of damage people can do with them.

Not sure if you've been keeping up but we are way beyond what you suggest. That is no longer good enough, ask around. Still, this thread isn't to discuss that in particular. Plenty of other threads to argue the merits of gun control. My description of L/R mindset is not actually far off related to the people and how they view others based on a few sentences on the internet.

 

[dank69]

Not sure if you've been keeping up but we are way beyond what you suggest. That is no longer good enough, ask around. Still, this thread isn't to discuss that in particular. Plenty of other threads to argue the merits of gun control. My description of L/R mindset is not actually far off related to the people and how they view others based on a few sentences on the internet.

We are way beyond what I suggest?

 

[ImpulsE69]

We are way beyond what I suggest?

Just that the anti-gun nuts here have moved beyond stricter gun control as a viable solution and are all out gun ban and anyone who doesn't agree with them is a crazy gun nut.

nothing gets people more emotional than when they can throw around 'but think of the children!'. My stance is and always been that the US is not these other countries they compare them to. Completely different cultures and problems.

 

[ch33zw1z]

It wasn't cherry picked. It was front page on my news feed. I thought it fit the start of a nice new thread to pull out the hypocrisy since murder is such a hot topic right now (if it is by guns). There will be more to come, the psychos never sleep. Anyone is free to add to it, only rule is that guns can't be involved. This way we can all feel warm and fuzzy when someone doesn't die by a gun. Maybe some of you will even feel a minor sense of accomplishment.

Murder gets sensationalized. Even if people suddenly quit killing people with guns, your news feeds would still be filled with murders front and center and there would be plenty to go around. Of course, then what will the agenda be? Who or what will you blame?

That's quite a bit of what ifs I don't see happening.

Are you pushing a wireless only agenda?

 

[ImpulsE69]

That's quite a bit of what ifs I don't see happening.

Are you pushing a wireless only agenda?

No idea what part in what you quoted is what ifs. It is right there in front of you. And no, because I blame the person, the actual root of the problem, not the object.

 

[SMOGZINN]

No idea what part in what you quoted is what ifs. It is right there in front of you. And no, because I blame the person, the actual root of the problem, not the object.

I blame the person too. It is that person I don't want to own guns. I'm completely fine with anyone that would never use a gun to murder multiple people owning as many as they want. As soon as you can figure out how to accomplish that I'll support it 100% percent. What we are doing now is almost completely ineffective.

So, suggest a method to stop people that want to commit mass murder from getting guns, while allowing people that don't to have them, and we will go with that. So far no one has ever come up with such a solution. Until someone does I suggest we use the solutions we do have.

 

[dank69]

Just that the anti-gun nuts here have moved beyond stricter gun control as a viable solution and are all out gun ban and anyone who doesn't agree with them is a crazy gun nut.

nothing gets people more emotional than when they can throw around 'but think of the children!'. My stance is and always been that the US is not these other countries they compare them to. Completely different cultures and problems.

I don't know of anyone here who would call someone who opposes an all out gun ban "crazy" and nobody here would frame that person as a conservative based solely on that viewpoint. Please provide an example.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I don't know of anyone here who would call someone who opposes an all out gun ban "crazy" and nobody here would frame that person as a conservative based solely on that viewpoint. Please provide an example.

I'm guessing that you, like myself and others don't scour every single post in every single thread so I can accept that you might not think that if you haven't personally had it happen. I'm not going to go dig thru every post, but here's one on just this subject.

https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...-active-shooter-virginia-beach.2565943/page-4

 

[dank69]

I'm guessing that you, like myself and others don't scour every single post in every single thread so I can accept that you might not think that if you haven't personally had it happen. I'm not going to go dig thru every post, but here's one on just this subject.

https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...-active-shooter-virginia-beach.2565943/page-4

That takes me to the top of page 4 of that thread. After reading the posts visible, nobody is advocating gun grabbing, nobody is calling anyone crazy and nobody is calling anyone a conservative. I see someone calling people a part of the problem when people characterize the left's position as wanting to stop every single gun incident or that nothing can be done.

First piece of evidence that you are mischaracterizing what is actually happening. Thank you for that. Do you want to give me a more specific post, since I didn't scroll down to see if what you claim happened actually happened somewhere on that page? Or do you want to find another example?

 

[ch33zw1z]

No idea what part in what you quoted is what ifs. It is right there in front of you. And no, because I blame the person, the actual root of the problem, not the object.

The what ifs are you proposing the hypothetical of "gun grabbing" and the fallout.

We both blame the person, or in this examples case....two people it took to kill someone else with a cord.

Also, I live in MA, and I don't know a single person that wants to ban all guns.