The GTX 780, 770, 760 ti Thread *First review leaked $700+?*

[wand3r3r]

Dear steve,

You're wrong. The high end gaming cards aren't where NV makes all of the money. They sell plenty of mainstream video cards that carry the company.

Love, the market

Did you mean, the marketer?

 

[ICDP]

Dear the market,

nVidia makes money on high end cards or they wouldn't sell them. We (enthusiasts) are the market for high end cards. If we will not bear their new prices, then the market will not bear them.

Love, Steve

ROFL :thumbsup:

 

[blackened23]

edit : dp

 

[DooKey]

That's my point, Nvidia choose Nvidia's pricing, not AMD. No conspiracy theories or failed logic required. I don't like the pricing of GTX780 and will vote with my wallet, but lets not pretend the pricing is fair.

Fair? There's no such thing as a fair price in the open market of luxury goods. No one NEEDS a gaming card.

 

[DooKey]

Dear the market,

nVidia makes money on high end cards or they wouldn't sell them. We (enthusiasts) are the market for high end cards. If we will not bear their new prices, then the market will not bear them.

Love, Steve

Dear Steve,

You just moved the goal posts from your OP.

Now you are agreeing with me about the market and high end video cards.

Love, a free market believer

 

[tential]

Chances are, nvidia knows exactly what they're doing. They have a set number of chips that they want to sell and they can intentionally price it a bit higher, because the GK110 can also be used in the Titan (higher profit) or HPC (much higher profit.). Because of this, nvidia can sell the GTX 780 for a considerably higher price, yet, it doesn't matter because they have other options with the GK110.

Let's take a scenario. Let's say nvidia's cost with the GTX 780 is roughly, 350$. So for every card they sell, they make the difference in profit.

Scenario 1) Sell cards at 650$. They sell 10,000 cards at 300$ profit per sale. Total profit : $3000000

Scenario 2) Sell cards at 600$. They sell 15,000 cards at 250$ profit per sale. Total profit : $3750000

Scenario 3) Sell card sat 550$. They sell 20,000 cards at 200$ profit per sale. Total profit: $4000000

This is almost *exactly* how the market plays out. Once you lower the cost slightly, the buyer base increases exponentially. Just look at the poll below for proof of what people are willing to pay. But what is nvidia doing here? Let me explain:

So you make more profit by selling for less, because the number of buyers increases substantially. This is a very basic economic concept called profit maximization. But, let's get back to what's happening here. NVidia knows what they're doing. Consider this - they have strict supply quotas on chips they can devote to the GTX 780, because they can use the GK110 in multiple markets and cards. It just so happens, that the GK110 in the Titan and ESPECIALLY the quadro cards are substantially more profit. So nvidia has the flexibility to price the GTX 780 substantially higher than we all expected, because they can simply allocate these chips to HPC and the Titan. Both of which are higher profit.

So they make slightly less profit on the GTX 780 overall, but total profit will be higher because the GK110 chips unsold from the 780 are all going to the Titan and HPC markets. Higher profit overall. Hope this makes sense. Yes, it does suck for those with limited budgets, because they're priced out of the market. Yes, nvidia is pricing higher than they should, but what can you do. There are still folks who will buy it, just like folks who bought the Titan. In the end nvidia still makes money.

Just to further your post, they also are combining all 3 scenarios.
Price at 650, get the first 10,000 customers, drop price to 600, get the next 5000, drop to 550, get the next 5000 customers. Effectively pricing the card at the highest pricepoint each group of customers is willing to pay.
Movie theaters do this with their pricing of Adults, Seniors, Students, and Kids. You sell something at the maximum price consumers are willing to pay to maximize profits. This is working right now for Nvidia because AMD doesn't have a competitor card ready. When competition comes, 780 pricing will be more reasonable.

Right now though, Price to Performance, it's unreasonable to me, but from a profits standpoint, and if I was Nvidia, I'd do the same. No question about it.

 

[blackened23]

Dear Steve,

You just moved the goal posts from your OP.

Now you are agreeing with me about the market and high end video cards.

Love, a free market believer

Can we just stop with the silly Dear XXXX posts? Come on. I'm not directing this specifically to you, as many people have done the same - bit it is silly and childish. Can we talk like, normal people again? Thanks

Also the shill accusations and all that nonsense, just stop. (again, not directing this to you, but to everyone)

 

[DooKey]

Did you mean, the marketer?

Oops, I offended an AMDefender so now I'm a member of the NV Focus Group.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Exactly. Besides my wife would seriously consider divorcing me over spending a grand on a video card. The thought of that conversation makes me shudder. Honey I just bought a $1000 video card...

Ha good one....me too scary stuff there...

 

[DooKey]

Can we just stop with the silly Dear XXXX posts? Come on. I'm not directing this specifically to you, as many people have done the same - bit it is silly and childish. Can we talk like, normal people again? Thanks

LOL, I read you. Some of the partisan silliness just makes me highlight it even further.

 

[Face2Face]

Ha good one....me too scary stuff there...

At least we know who wears the pants

 

[Crap Daddy]

So you make more profit by selling for less, because the number of buyers increases substantially. This is a very basic economic concept called profit maximization. But, let's get back to what's happening here. NVidia knows what they're doing.

Let's not forget margins. NV reported gross margins of 54.3% last Q (AMD reported 41% up from 39%). On the other hand the 780 seems to be dangerously close to Titan so if they price it too low they can kill Titan and if they price it too high they'll loose larger sales. We'll see tomorrow the tru MSRP.

 

[steviaintheraw]

Dear Steve,

You just moved the goal posts from your OP.

Now you are agreeing with me about the market and high end video cards.

Love, a free market believer

How did I move the goal posts? You said the high end market isn't where nVidia makes all its money, implying they can do whatever they want with the price and still be profitable as a company.

Burger King could sell spaghetti and take a bath on it and still come out profitable. But they wouldn't make money on it, so why would they do it? Obviously nVidia cares about high end sales, which is my point. I believe in the free market too. You seem to be confusing "what people at nVidia think the market will bear" to "what the market will actually bear"

 

[tential]

Let's not forget margins. NV reported gross margins of 54.3% last Q (AMD reported 41% up from 39%). On the other hand the 780 seems to be dangerously close to Titan so if they price it too low they can kill Titan and if they price it too high they'll loose larger sales. We'll see tomorrow the tru MSRP.

Certainly a sticky situation for Nvidia with Titan at 1000, the 780 really has no choice but to be expensive. I agree with this quote completely. Too high, you don't sell any 780s, too low, and you destroy your flagship product. Their largest pricing problem is their own card haha.

I'm sure their marketers know what they're doing though. TBH, I think pricing from 1k down is here to stay and I applaud Nvidia for doing their research and realizing this works. Probably will mean bad news for me as a non enthusiast consumer who really can get by with middle of the level stuff as long as it's 1080p, but great for their products and profits and executives.

 

[wand3r3r]

Oops, I offended an AMDefender so now I'm a member of the NV Focus Group.

Nope, just a consumer. I don't have other ties (financial or otherwise) to either company.

 

[blackened23]

edit: added HPC example

Chances are, nvidia knows exactly what they're doing. They have a set number of chips that they want to sell and they can intentionally price it a bit higher, because the GK110 can also be used in the Titan (higher profit) or HPC (much higher profit.). Because of this, nvidia can sell the GTX 780 for a considerably higher price, yet, it doesn't matter because they have other options with the GK110.

Let's take a scenario. Let's say nvidia's cost with the GTX 780 is roughly, 350$. So for every card they sell, they make the difference in profit.

Scenario 1) Sell GTX 780 at 650$. They sell 10,000 cards at 300$ profit per sale. Total profit : $3000000

Scenario 2) Sell GTX 780 at 600$. They sell 15,000 cards at 250$ profit per sale. Total profit : $3750000

Scenario 3) Sell GTX 780 at 550$. They sell 20,000 cards at 200$ profit per sale. Total profit: $4000000

Example of HPC sales:

Scenario 4) Sell Tesla K20 at at 4000$. They sell 2,000 cards at 3650$ profit per sale. Total profit: $7300000

This is almost *exactly* how the market plays out. Once you lower the cost slightly, the buyer base increases exponentially. Just look at the poll below for proof of what people are willing to pay. But what is nvidia doing here? Let me explain:

So you make more profit by selling for less, because the number of buyers increases substantially. This is a very basic economic concept called profit maximization. But, let's get back to what's happening here. NVidia knows what they're doing. Consider this - they have strict supply quotas on chips they can devote to the GTX 780, because they can use the GK110 in multiple markets and cards. It just so happens, that the GK110 in the Titan and ESPECIALLY the quadro cards are substantially more profit. So nvidia has the flexibility to price the GTX 780 substantially higher than we all expected, because they can simply allocate these chips to HPC and the Titan. Both of which are higher profit.

So they make slightly less profit on the GTX 780 overall, but total profit will be higher because the GK110 chips unsold from the 780 are all going to the Titan and HPC markets. Higher profit overall. Hope this makes sense. Yes, it does suck for those with limited budgets, because they're priced out of the market. Yes, nvidia is pricing higher than they should, but what can you do. There are still folks who will buy it, just like folks who bought the Titan. In the end nvidia still makes money.

 

[DooKey]

How did I move the goal posts? You said the high end market isn't where nVidia makes all its money, implying they can do whatever they want with the price and still be profitable as a company.

Burger King could sell spaghetti and take a bath on it and still come out profitable. But they wouldn't make money on it, so why would they do it? Obviously nVidia cares about high end sales, which is my point. I believe in the free market too. You seem to be confusing "what people at nVidia think the market will bear" to "what the market will actually bear"

The high end market isn't where NV makes all its money, correct. They can do whatever they want to do with the price across their product line until it effects their bottom line. If their pricing is out of line anywhere in the product line they will adjust if the market calls for it, assuming they aren't going for intentional losses at some price points to gain market share/reputation. Anyway, I did not imply they can do whatever they want and still be profitable unlike how you opined that PC gamers are going to not upgrade PCs and buy new gen consoles because the 7XX line is sooooooooo expensive.

BLUF

NV cares about all sales and adjusts to the market as required to stay profitable. The market is currently telling them that their prices are appropriate.

 

[UaVaj]

Fair? There's no such thing as a fair price in the open market of luxury goods. No one NEEDS a gaming card.

gaming card is truly a luxury.

heck most people does not even need a 560ti (was $89 recently at microcenter) when intel hd graphics can get the job done - 90% of the time.

back to anandtech's enthauiast gamers. yeal. we all need titan/780/680/7970 in multi-gpu configuration. :biggrin:

 

[ICDP]

Fair? There's no such thing as a fair price in the open market of luxury goods. No one NEEDS a gaming card.

You know fine well I mean in the context of historical top end GPU pricing. I made that clear when I listed the recent few years top end GPU pricing trends.

 

[DooKey]

You know fine well I mean in the context of historical top end GPU pricing. I made that clear when I listed the recent few years top end GPU pricing trends.

So NV is obligated to follow past trends even if the market allows them to further maximize margins and profits? Is that what you're saying when you say NV isn't "fair" with their pricing on a luxury product?

Like I said before, there's no such thing as fair pricing in the market for luxury items. Vote with your wallet, and don't embarrass yourself any longer by stating NV isn't being "fair".

 

[wand3r3r]

Though dost defend premiums pretty strongly for a "random" "consumer". Nobodies obligated to anything that's true but hopefully people wise up to the gouging.

 

[Cloudfire777]

$649 from that unknown reseller for the 780. Probably a little more expensive than the big companies like NewEgg and Amazon.

I`d say GTX 780 will cost $599

 

[DooKey]

Though dost defend premiums pretty strongly for a "random" "consumer". Nobodies obligated to anything that's true but hopefully people wise up to the gouging.

I'm not defending premiums at all. I'm defending the free market. Prices will rise or fall based upon the market for the video cards, nothing more or less. With that said I wish I could have purchased my Titans for less than a grand a piece, but alas the prices never budged so I had to pay the market price.

I'm a video card junkie (big time consumer) and I love me some top of the line cards. Kinda like how I paid $599 each for my 2x XFX DD 7970s on release day or how I paid the going rate for 2x GTX 580s on release day.......did the same for 2x 6970s, 2x 5870s, 2x GTX 480s, 4870x2, 9800GX2, etc. etc. etc.

BTW, you might want to look up gouging since I don't think you really know what it means.

 

[socialdarwinist]

I'm not defending premiums at all. I'm defending the free market. Prices will rise or fall based upon the market for the video cards, nothing more or less. With that said I wish I could have purchased my Titans for less than a grand a piece, but alas the prices never budged so I had to pay the market price.

I'm a video card junkie (big time consumer) and I love me some top of the line cards. Kinda like how I paid $599 each for my 2x XFX DD 7970s on release day or how I paid the going rate for 2x GTX 580s on release day.......did the same for 2x 6970s, 2x 5870s, 2x GTX 480s, 4870x2, 9800GX2, etc. etc. etc.

BTW, you might want to look up gouging since I don't think you really know what it means.

Free market capitalism presumes competition. The closest this is to competition is a duopoly.

 

[DooKey]

Free market capitalism presumes competition. The closest this is to competition is a duopoly.

You're wrong. Intel makes iGPU (most gpu's sold are these by the way), AMD sells APU as well as discrete GPU. It's more than a duopoly.