The GTX 780, 770, 760 ti Thread *First review leaked $700+?*

[boxleitnerb]

Since you speak of throttling, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[rolodomo]

If the video card market is contracting like some reports have suggested, going for high profit parts probably makes sense.

Yes, but only if the contracting demand for high-end, consumer desktop GPU(s) is epochal or the supply is limited. Otherwise pricing below demand can increase demand (move the curve) thus ameliorating a contracting market and increasing profits. If a contracting market can't be reversed or slowed, at least more market share can be obtained. Intel understands this, see e.g., their Haswell pricing. The i7-4770K appears to be priced below anticipated demand at approx. $327 especially given Intel's dominant position in the high-end, desktop CPU market. The bean counters at Intel however understand that this eventually means more money in their pocket.

 

[Fx1]

Since you speak of throttling, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Yes i do. You just dont get the analogy.

GPU's used to be set at say 800mhz then you would clock to 900 and it would be stable until pushed to 80c and then it would crap out.

Boost is just the same. It pushed to 900mhz until it gets hot and then drops the clocks to 850 then 800 again.

Temporary overclock. This used to be called instability when your OC couldnt handle the heat and used to crap out. Why do you think watercooling was invented?

This is all boost is.

 

[boxleitnerb]

Yes i do. You just dont get the analogy.

GPU's used to be set at say 800mhz then you would clock to 900 and it would be stable until pushed to 80c and then it would crap out.

Boost is just the same. It pushed to 900mhz until it gets hot and then drops the clocks to 850 then 800 again.

Temporary overclock. This used to be called instability when your OC couldnt handle the heat and used to crap out. Why do you think watercooling was invented?

This is all boost is.

Again wrong. You don't differentiate between boosting less due to thermal and power constraints and instability in general for whatever reasons. The boost CAN go higher and be stable at that (in a reasonable frequency range) - the point is, it isn't allowed to in many situations with default settings.
If my frequency is stable, I could raise the targets and play at 90-94°C at let's say 1100 MHz all day long and it wouldn't matter.

 

[Fx1]

Again wrong. You don't differentiate between boosting less due to thermal and power constraints and instability in general for whatever reasons. The boost CAN go higher and be stable at that (in a reasonable frequency range) - the point is, it isn't allowed to in many situations with default settings.
If my frequency is stable, I could raise the targets and play at 90-94°C at let's say 1100 MHz all day long and it wouldn't matter.

Heat causes instability.

This is why with LN2 people clock CPU's to 7ghz

Boost works with the TDP and heat, thats pretty much it.

When you increase the boost you just increase the TDP to the thermal limits of the GPU.

 

[Stuka87]

Again wrong. You don't differentiate between boosting less due to thermal and power constraints and instability in general for whatever reasons. The boost CAN go higher and be stable at that (in a reasonable frequency range) - the point is, it isn't allowed to in many situations with default settings.
If my frequency is stable, I could raise the targets and play at 90-94°C at let's say 1100 MHz all day long and it wouldn't matter.

Either you still do not understand his first comment, or you do not understand that the GPU becomes unstable with heat.

but I am kind of thinking both.

 

[boxleitnerb]

Heat causes instability.

This is why with LN2 people clock CPU's to 7ghz

Boost works with the TDP and heat, thats pretty much it.

When you increase the boost you just increase the TDP to the thermal limits of the GPU.

Where is the problem? Any GPU can fail at high frequencies and high temps. That still doesn't prove that GK110 "doesn't clock well". And btw, we don't know how Nvidia sets the power and temperature targets and how this will affect the 780 in the end.

Either you still do not understand his first comment, or you do not understand that the GPU becomes unstable with heat.

but I am kind of thinking both.

I understand perfectly. I'm not talking extreme OC. For that it's natural that you need a good cooling solution. If you adjust the fan curve or put it under water, GK110 does indeed clock well, contrary to what Fx1 says. I concur that it's not that easy anymore since you have to think about multiple things. But that doesn't change the OC potential of the GPU itself.

 

[aigomorla]

I want my watercooled TRI SLI 780s!!!

must get them b4 adamK.... :sneaky:

Maybe i'll actually get to unlock its true prowess this year with the games coming out.

 

[Xarick]

I love the boost feature. If my game is demanding I boost to 1175 and stay there until the demand goes away. If I play something less demanding my boost barely jumps.
I think it is a great way to save power and heat.
I can understand why people wouldn't like it if the thing throttled, but I have not experienced that in my card. Infact I have it 80c without any drop in boost.

 

[willomz]

Yeah let's quit with this silly glass half full/glass half empty debate. All that matters is the performance that is delivered.

 

[Fx1]

Where is the problem? Any GPU can fail at high frequencies and high temps. That still doesn't prove that GK110 "doesn't clock well". And btw, we don't know how Nvidia sets the power and temperature targets and how this will affect the 780 in the end.



I understand perfectly. I'm not talking extreme OC. For that it's natural that you need a good cooling solution. If you adjust the fan curve or put it under water, GK110 does indeed clock well, contrary to what Fx1 says. I concur that it's not that easy anymore since you have to think about multiple things. But that doesn't change the OC potential of the GPU itself.

If you think a Boost to 1100mhz is good on Titan then a 7970 could boost to 1400mhz in the same way.

I personally would want my OC rock solid and not fluctuating. Boost is a way they improve benchmark performance and keep RMA's down. Personally i dont like it that much. Id rather fine tune my max OC and then tune my games to hit 60 FPS on max possible settings. I cant be doing with my clock speeds changing by 100-200mhz and my fps taking a dip when the sun comes out.

 

[willomz]

But boost doesn't do this, look at the graph, the Titan fluctuates in almost precisely the same way as the 7970. There are no sudden dips that aren't present on the 7970.

 

[Zanovar]

If you think a Boost to 1100mhz is good on Titan then a 7970 could boost to 1400mhz in the same way.

I personally would want my OC rock solid and not fluctuating. Boost is a way they improve benchmark performance and keep RMA's down. Personally i dont like it that much. Id rather fine tune my max OC and then tune my games to hit 60 FPS on max possible settings. I cant be doing with my clock speeds changing by 100-200mhz and my fps taking a dip when the sun comes out.

doesn't work like that there are exceptions though(not many, most games will hold max clocks when fps drops)kinda like the feature tbh.needs tweaking for sure.below certain temps ofcourse hahah,im using modded bios i forget that

 

[wand3r3r]

I love the boost feature. If my game is demanding I boost to 1175 and stay there until the demand goes away. If I play something less demanding my boost barely jumps.
I think it is a great way to save power and heat.
I can understand why people wouldn't like it if the thing throttled, but I have not experienced that in my card. Infact I have it 80c without any drop in boost.

That's not fully true. When it's demanding it heats up and uses more power so the tdp limits get hit and it drops the clocks. When the load eases and therefore the power usage/temps drop, the clocks boost again. It is merely a varying ocing feature but drops or raises the speed depending on tdp and temp.

I don't like it unless you are incapable of ocing.

It makes benchmarks look better in some cases (see Titan drop 5+% when warmed up).

 

[Xarick]

I have a galaxy card and they do not throttle.
Galaxy rep said they are rated up to 105.

 

[Zanovar]

Im curious as ive forgotten,what temps do the drops start? 80c?not sure if it was 13mhz after every 5c after 80.cant remember.

 

[Fx1]

But boost doesn't do this, look at the graph, the Titan fluctuates in almost precisely the same way as the 7970. There are no sudden dips that aren't present on the 7970.

It depends on conditions i suppose. I have games like Far Cry 3 and Crysis 3 on 1900x1200 which are borderline 60fps solid. Some drops to 55. If i lost 200mhz due to heat then id go into the 40's and lose my Vsync.

My room heats up quickly with my PC i do have a 7970 and an i7 950 after all! The sun comes in also in the summer it gets warm.

I know my 7970 will run 1125/1700 24/7 regardless of ambient temps because i have a non boost 7970. This is nice stable clock and even at 80c it wont clock down.

Lets face it the cooler in the Titan is a monster and the GPU is a monster too. Heat is clearly a concern with that GPU and there are reports than it downclocks quite frequently and this is without OC.

 

[Stuka87]

I have a galaxy card and they do not throttle.
Galaxy rep said they are rated up to 105.

nVidia has stated that 98C is the max temp the GTX680 is rated for (Doubt this is different for the other 600 series cards). By the time it hits 98C, it would have already throttled down quite a bit.

Galaxy would have to be crazy to allow it to hit 105C, which extremely hot and sure to damage the chips after prolonged usage.

 

[wand3r3r]

I have a galaxy card and they do not throttle.
Galaxy rep said they are rated up to 105.

Not less than the base clock.

Yeah up to 105 until they shut down.

Boost starts dropping long before already at 70 iirc or at the tdp limit.

Unlike GPUs based on the Fermi architecture, the GeForce GTX 680 have two different graphics clock speeds - a Base Clock, and a Boost Clock. The GeForce GTX 680 has a Base Clock of 1006 MHz and a Boost Clock of 1058 MHz, or slightly more than 5% above the Base Clock. The Base Clock is the minimum clock speed the GPU is guaranteed to achieve while running under load in applications that push the GPU to its TDP limit.

The Boost Clock, on the other hand, is the average clock speed that GPU will run under load in applications that do not cause the GPU to hits its TDP limit. Although it may appear to be a "target clock speed" for Boost Clock, it is really just a marketing tool - it denotes what the typical clock speed boost you can expect from GPU Boost while running a typical game. No matter what the Boost Clock is set at, GPU Boost will base its overclocking on the app's power usage and the preset power target. If there is additional power headroom, GPU Boost will increase the clock speed beyond the Boost Clock. In NVIDIA's internal tests, GPU Boost had been observed to ramp up the graphics clock speed to 1.1 GHz and beyond.

Read more at http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=745&pgno=1#5pOoA938Ra1bk34O.99

Galaxy doesn't change this.

Play a game and take a screenshot of a long stretch of the core clock. The clocks vary.

 

[blackened23]

I have a galaxy card and they do not throttle.
Galaxy rep said they are rated up to 105.

If it's a kepler card it definitely throttles at 70C and 80C. All kepler cards do this, it's part of the design. It's not a question of whether a brand does it, again - part of the design. They will throttle by 1 bin generally speaking (13mhz) whenever the threshold is hit, and will adjust voltage accordingly. If it remains at the threshold, it will throttle another 13mhz.

You can very clearly see throttling if you monitor with MSI afterburner OSD, whenever you hit the 70C or 80C thresholds. To beat a dead horse once again, it's the design built into the chip and built into the drivers, there is no avoiding it. The only way around it is with the MSI lightning series, which nvidia didn't take kindly to.

 

[Ajay]

If it's a kepler card it definitely throttles at 70C and 80C. All kepler cards do this, it's part of the design. It's not a question of whether a brand does it, again - part of the design. They will throttle by 1 bin generally speaking (13mhz) whenever the threshold is hit, and will adjust voltage accordingly. If it remains at the threshold, it will throttle another 13mhz.

You can very clearly see throttling if you monitor with MSI afterburner OSD, whenever you hit the 70C or 80C thresholds. To beat a dead horse once again, it's the design built into the chip and built into the drivers, there is no avoiding it. The only way around it is with the MSI lightning series, which nvidia didn't take kindly to.

IIRC, the GK110 Keplers do not throttle @ 80C. Can't remember where I read that so I'll look for some documentation. If you have some documentation on the throttle level on the GK110, please post it. Thanks.

 

[Ajay]

I want my watercooled TRI SLI 780s!!!

must get them b4 adamK.... :sneaky:

Maybe i'll actually get to unlock its true prowess this year with the games coming out.

Doesn't he already have a pair of Titans?

 

[blackened23]

IIRC, the GK110 Keplers do not throttle @ 80C. Can't remember where I read that so I'll look for some documentation. If you have some documentation on the throttle level on the GK110, please post it. Thanks.

They do throttle. But in different ways. GK110 uses a boost 2.0, while the 600s use boost 1.0. The original point remains, thermal throttle is present on any and every GTX 600 card, it is programmed into the drivers and is ingrained into the chip itself. Any assertion of a 600 card (with boost) not throttling at determined presets (70c, 80c) is wrong - it cannot be avoided because it's part of the GK104s core logic. (aside from the msi lightning series, maybe ev bot classified's from evga - but nvidia put an end to that).

Generally speaking, throttle with boost 1.0 occurs in 1 bin (13mhz) increments and isn't really detrimental to performance, but i'm only correcting his error. All 600 cards have thermal throttle aside from the aforementioned outliers, period.

 

[Xarick]

I can guarantee you it does not throttle at 70c
I have run heaven well above 80c and no throttling.
I know many others who have the same. I have also spoken to the galaxy rep because they allow their card to go well above 70 in the fan profile and they have guaranteed me it will not throttle. Since I have seen no evidence of throttling above 80c (my card is set to hit 1175 and I have monitored it's boost through gpuz for over 30 minutes above 80c) I have to assume there is a disconnect in the logic that all cards throttle.

 

[blackened23]

I can guarantee you it does not throttle at 70c
I have run heaven well above 80c and no throttling.
I know many others who have the same. I have also spoken to the galaxy rep because they allow their card to go well above 70 in the fan profile and they have guaranteed me it will not throttle. Since I have seen no evidence of throttling above 80c (my card is set to hit 1175 and I have monitored it's boost through gpuz for over 30 minutes above 80c) I have to assume there is a disconnect in the logic that all cards throttle.

Okay, you have the magical 1 GTX 600 that somehow avoided a feature that every 600 chip with boost 1.0 card has. Joking aside, GPUZ? You're using the wrong program to monitor boost. Maybe fix that and realize your error

edit: i'm not saying this is a bad feature, it's good for efficiency. It also doesn't impact performance notably. But, it does happen on all 600 cards with boost (again, except the aforementioned outliers)

http://www.guru3d.com/files_details/afterburner_download_msi.html