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The "Great Society" has been an unmitigated failure

Riprorin

Banned
We now witnessed 40 years of the Great Society, so an audit would not be unreasonable. The "unconditional" War On Poverty has turned into one of the greatest frauds of all time. Poverty has not been eradicated, but billions of dollars have been funneled into the friends and families of the bureaucrats. Food stamps are the unofficial currency of Puerto Rico, and WIC stores are now springing up everywhere in the US. Fannie Mae, Ginnie Mae, and the FHA are a total disaster. The Federal Reserve is totally committed to pumping up the equity markets to avoid the possibility of a bailout of the pension system. Alan Greenspan recently testified that he has real problems with the liabilities of the GSE's.Government Sponsored Enterprises include Fannie Mae, Ginnie Mae, Sallie Mae, etc. The government has implemented the Full Employment Act, and has turned the US into a service worker paradise. The premise that the government can create jobs is true. The problem is that the government cannot create productive jobs. What would Congress and it's entourage of lobbyists know about productive work? We no longer produce goods. It is an economic fact that the production of goods creates wealth through operating leverage. Service industries are inherently inflationary, because there is an equal amount of labor required for every incremental unit of service provided. There are no wealthy service economies. The big problem is tax revenue. How can low paying service jobs generate the taxes required to pay for all the social services they use? We witness the absurd spectacle of service workers receiving social services from government workers who are paid three to five times more than the services workers are paid! Will somebody please explain this logically? Government workers produce nothing except more government workers! We are trapped in a circle with no exit.

The Social Security pyramid scheme has hit the wall. The pyramid is disappearing. There will soon be more people collecting benefits than there are people working. The Social Security Fund never existed. The trust fund fiction was created by FDR to defeat the program's critics. The one variable that might give the system more time, is the fact that you have no legal right to Social Security. Keynesian economics, and socialist central planning, have trapped the Western economies into a slow death. The true US government debt has been estimated to be 82 trillion dollars. Should this socialist delusion continue, we will have to start computing the National Debt in googols. Googols represent very large numbers. Naturally, the government will announce the conversion to googols as a major cost saving measure. All those very big numbers will be reduced to a few googols. The government will save on forms, and computer data storage space. Once the politicians find out that less trees are being cut down as a result of the conversion to googols, the new numbers base will be heralded as a brilliant environmental decision. We are talking about Nobel prizes, and KBE's from the Queen of England! This could warrant the establishment of a new government agency! The government will claim that the new agency will actually be free because it will be funded with the savings from the conversion to googols. It may run a little over budget, but no plan is perfect. Of course, how would one know if they were over budget using googols?

The obvious question is where do we go from here? Dick Stoken, a veteran commodity trader and a very astute observer of the markets and the economy, made an interesting argument in his first book, Cycles (1978). Stoken said that all modern societies have washed away their debts with inflation (debasement of the currency). This would seem like the obvious move for the socialist governments at this time. As Shakespeare said, "Ay, there's the rub". We have to deal with the probability that the past will extrapolate in a linear way into the future. We may be confronted with a discontinous event, which defines a major change in trend. We are witnessing the largest inter generational wealth transfer scheme in history. We are trying to shift our financial obligations onto the next group of workers. Do we really believe that these new workers are this stupid? Why should they be impoverished by paying their elder's bills?The most bizarre part is the fact that the most of elders will dead when these younger workers get the bill for this lunacy! Will they support a government that has enslaved them financially? Would you? Should you wish to revert to legalisms about their duties, The Declaration of Independence will help you to understand their inalienable rights.

When will Atlas Shrug? Atlas has not only shrugged, he has sold his real estate at the top, and is now ensconced in Thailand, China, India, the Baltic States, and anywhere else that has economic freedom. Corporations are fleeing the US as if there were vampires here. Corporations are aware of the differences in the value systems of different countries, and are acting rationally by leaving the US for environments that are more" producer friendly". We should remember that the American value system was once very producer friendly. Calvin Coolidge was the President from 1923 till 1929. Coolidge said, "After all, the chief business of the American people is business". There is a very serious disease in the US. It is highly contagious, usually fatal, and requires extreme measures to stop its spread. It is the ultimate biological weapon. It slowly destroys entire societies. All of the nation's creative energies are utilized in working the system, whether it be for handicapped privileges, or for increases in the particular entitlement they are currently receiving. Slowly, the economy has changed from production to parasitism. Collectivism makes Ebola look like a Christmas present.

Free Markets For Free Men!

Author Wayne N. Krautkramer is a former Fortune 100 financial manager with 30 years experience in commodities and stocks.
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
We now witnessed 40 years of the Great Society, so an audit would not be unreasonable. The "unconditional" War On Poverty has turned into one of the greatest frauds of all time. Poverty has not been eradicated, but billions of dollars have been funneled into the friends and families of the bureaucrats. Food stamps are the unofficial currency of Puerto Rico, and WIC stores are now springing up everywhere in the US. Fannie Mae, Ginnie Mae, and the FHA are a total disaster. The Federal Reserve is totally committed to pumping up the equity markets to avoid the possibility of a bailout of the pension system. Alan Greenspan recently testified that he has real problems with the liabilities of the GSE's.Government Sponsored Enterprises include Fannie Mae, Ginnie Mae, Sallie Mae, etc. The government has implemented the Full Employment Act, and has turned the US into a service worker paradise. The premise that the government can create jobs is true. The problem is that the government cannot create productive jobs. What would Congress and it's entourage of lobbyists know about productive work? We no longer produce goods. It is an economic fact that the production of goods creates wealth through operating leverage. Service industries are inherently inflationary, because there is an equal amount of labor required for every incremental unit of service provided. There are no wealthy service economies. The big problem is tax revenue. How can low paying service jobs generate the taxes required to pay for all the social services they use? We witness the absurd spectacle of service workers receiving social services from government workers who are paid three to five times more than the services workers are paid! Will somebody please explain this logically? Government workers produce nothing except more government workers! We are trapped in a circle with no exit.

The Social Security pyramid scheme has hit the wall. The pyramid is disappearing. There will soon be more people collecting benefits than there are people working. The Social Security Fund never existed. The trust fund fiction was created by FDR to defeat the program's critics. The one variable that might give the system more time, is the fact that you have no legal right to Social Security. Keynesian economics, and socialist central planning, have trapped the Western economies into a slow death. The true US government debt has been estimated to be 82 trillion dollars. Should this socialist delusion continue, we will have to start computing the National Debt in googols. Googols represent very large numbers. Naturally, the government will announce the conversion to googols as a major cost saving measure. All those very big numbers will be reduced to a few googols. The government will save on forms, and computer data storage space. Once the politicians find out that less trees are being cut down as a result of the conversion to googols, the new numbers base will be heralded as a brilliant environmental decision. We are talking about Nobel prizes, and KBE's from the Queen of England! This could warrant the establishment of a new government agency! The government will claim that the new agency will actually be free because it will be funded with the savings from the conversion to googols. It may run a little over budget, but no plan is perfect. Of course, how would one know if they were over budget using googols?

The obvious question is where do we go from here? Dick Stoken, a veteran commodity trader and a very astute observer of the markets and the economy, made an interesting argument in his first book, Cycles (1978). Stoken said that all modern societies have washed away their debts with inflation (debasement of the currency). This would seem like the obvious move for the socialist governments at this time. As Shakespeare said, "Ay, there's the rub". We have to deal with the probability that the past will extrapolate in a linear way into the future. We may be confronted with a discontinous event, which defines a major change in trend. We are witnessing the largest inter generational wealth transfer scheme in history. We are trying to shift our financial obligations onto the next group of workers. Do we really believe that these new workers are this stupid? Why should they be impoverished by paying their elder's bills?The most bizarre part is the fact that the most of elders will dead when these younger workers get the bill for this lunacy! Will they support a government that has enslaved them financially? Would you? Should you wish to revert to legalisms about their duties, The Declaration of Independence will help you to understand their inalienable rights.

When will Atlas Shrug? Atlas has not only shrugged, he has sold his real estate at the top, and is now ensconced in Thailand, China, India, the Baltic States, and anywhere else that has economic freedom. Corporations are fleeing the US as if there were vampires here. Corporations are aware of the differences in the value systems of different countries, and are acting rationally by leaving the US for environments that are more" producer friendly". We should remember that the American value system was once very producer friendly. Calvin Coolidge was the President from 1923 till 1929. Coolidge said, "After all, the chief business of the American people is business". There is a very serious disease in the US. It is highly contagious, usually fatal, and requires extreme measures to stop its spread. It is the ultimate biological weapon. It slowly destroys entire societies. All of the nation's creative energies are utilized in working the system, whether it be for handicapped privileges, or for increases in the particular entitlement they are currently receiving. Slowly, the economy has changed from production to parasitism. Collectivism makes Ebola look like a Christmas present.

Free Markets For Free Men!

Author Wayne N. Krautkramer is a former Fortune 100 financial manager with 30 years experience in commodities and stocks.
I guess that failure accounts for us being the wealthiest nation in the world.
 
He is right, though. The Great Society was billed NOT as relief for the poor, because that already existed through private charities. No one was starving in the streets or denied essential medical care prior to LBJ's socialist plan.

Nope, the Great Society was billed as "an end to poverty." It has failed miserably.
 
The progressive movement ended after Nixon's resignation (he was, in fact, the last progressive president). Ford started vetoing progressive legislation. Carter didn't do much of anything. Then Reagan came along and thus the era of counter-revolutionary conservatism came along. For the last 23 years the Great Society has been picked apart. How can you blame our problems on something when it has been dying for over 20 years? Atlas has been shrugging for the entire length of my life.
 
Originally posted by: Amused
He is right, though. The Great Society was billed NOT as relief for the poor, because that already existed through private charities. No one was starving in the streets or denied essential medical care prior to LBJ's socialist plan.

Nope, the Great Society was billed as "an end to poverty." It has failed miserably.

The thing that always fascinates me is why conservatives and Republicans in general go out of their way to defend the chief implementer of Johnson's "Great Society" good old "Tricky Dick" Nixon.
 
Originally posted by: Linflas
Originally posted by: Amused
He is right, though. The Great Society was billed NOT as relief for the poor, because that already existed through private charities. No one was starving in the streets or denied essential medical care prior to LBJ's socialist plan.

Nope, the Great Society was billed as "an end to poverty." It has failed miserably.

The thing that always fascinates me is why conservatives and Republicans in general go out of their way to defend the chief implementer of Johnson's "Great Society" good old "Tricky Dick" Nixon.

I don't know if that was directed towards me, but I've never been a fan of Nixon.
 
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Linflas
Originally posted by: Amused
He is right, though. The Great Society was billed NOT as relief for the poor, because that already existed through private charities. No one was starving in the streets or denied essential medical care prior to LBJ's socialist plan.

Nope, the Great Society was billed as "an end to poverty." It has failed miserably.

The thing that always fascinates me is why conservatives and Republicans in general go out of their way to defend the chief implementer of Johnson's "Great Society" good old "Tricky Dick" Nixon.

I don't know if that was directed towards me, but I've never been a fan of Nixon.

Nah it was just a follow on to your points about LBJs Great Society. I never meant to imply that you were a Nixon fan.
 
Originally posted by: Linflas
Originally posted by: Amused
He is right, though. The Great Society was billed NOT as relief for the poor, because that already existed through private charities. No one was starving in the streets or denied essential medical care prior to LBJ's socialist plan.

Nope, the Great Society was billed as "an end to poverty." It has failed miserably.

The thing that always fascinates me is why conservatives and Republicans in general go out of their way to defend the chief implementer of Johnson's "Great Society" good old "Tricky Dick" Nixon.

It was a rear-guard action. While he was implementing progressive policies, politicaly, he was setting up the southern strategy that was eventually used to take the South away from the Dem's. Reagan, who was part of a different, more radical wing of the RNC, used that strategy to roll back what Nixon and LBJ had implemented.
 
Originally posted by: preslove
Originally posted by: Linflas
Originally posted by: Amused
He is right, though. The Great Society was billed NOT as relief for the poor, because that already existed through private charities. No one was starving in the streets or denied essential medical care prior to LBJ's socialist plan.

Nope, the Great Society was billed as "an end to poverty." It has failed miserably.

The thing that always fascinates me is why conservatives and Republicans in general go out of their way to defend the chief implementer of Johnson's "Great Society" good old "Tricky Dick" Nixon.

It was a rear-guard action. While he was implementing progressive policies, politicaly, he was setting up the southern strategy that was eventually used to take the South away from the Dem's. Reagan, who was part of a different, more radical wing of the RNC, used that strategy to roll back what Nixon and LBJ had implemented.

I see no evidence of that rollback. The Federal Government is larger and more intrusive now than at any previous time in our history. "Great Society" agencies like HHS, HUD, DoEd etc continue to grow and multiply.
 
Unmitigated? Greatest Fraud? You better get out there and run for something, so you can sling the power language around in a place where it belongs. You might have a point somewhere in there, it's just too hard to decipher from the matrix of drama (ok, you can use that).
 
Originally posted by: Linflas
Originally posted by: preslove
Originally posted by: Linflas
Originally posted by: Amused
He is right, though. The Great Society was billed NOT as relief for the poor, because that already existed through private charities. No one was starving in the streets or denied essential medical care prior to LBJ's socialist plan.

Nope, the Great Society was billed as "an end to poverty." It has failed miserably.

The thing that always fascinates me is why conservatives and Republicans in general go out of their way to defend the chief implementer of Johnson's "Great Society" good old "Tricky Dick" Nixon.

It was a rear-guard action. While he was implementing progressive policies, politicaly, he was setting up the southern strategy that was eventually used to take the South away from the Dem's. Reagan, who was part of a different, more radical wing of the RNC, used that strategy to roll back what Nixon and LBJ had implemented.

I see no evidence of that rollback. The Federal Government is larger and more intrusive now than at any previous time in our history. "Great Society" agencies like HHS, HUD, DoEd etc continue to grow and multiply.

Yup. They have created a dependancy where one did not exist. Prior to welfare and medicaid, charities more than filled the need for those down on their luck.

And the funny thing about government agencies is that they NEVER go away. Why actually fix a problem and put yourself out of work? In reality, they just get bigger and somehow make the problem worse... then they beg for even more money.
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
The "Great Society" has been an unmitigated failure
The "unconditional" War On Poverty has turned into one of the greatest frauds of all time
From whitehouse.gov
The Great Society program became Johnson's agenda for Congress in January 1965: aid to education, attack on disease, Medicare, urban renewal, beautification, conservation, development of depressed regions, a wide-scale fight against poverty, control and prevention of crime and delinquency, removal of obstacles to the right to vote. Congress, at times augmenting or amending, rapidly enacted Johnson's recommendations. Millions of elderly people found succor through the 1965 Medicare amendment to the Social Security Act.
From www.libraryreference.org
Johnson's triumph in 1964 gave him a mandate for the Great Society, as he called his domestic program. Congress responded by passing the MEDICARE program, which provided health services to the elderly, approving federal aid to elementary and secondary education, supplementing the War on Poverty, and creating the Department of Housing and Urban Development. It also passed another important civil rights law-the Voting Rights Act of 1965.
The stated intentions of the programs comprising the "Great Society" are all constructive, forward looking, humane and humanitarian in nature. No group of programs of such large vision and scope can go forward without some mistakes and without guidance and funding to adjust to as circumstances change, but it's hard to argue with the goals of these programs, many or which both major parties still claim to promote.

There is also no way such grand ideas can fulfill their promise when they are underfunded and/or misguided by political agendas of various influential groups within and surrounding the governtment. The failures noted are not as much the fault of the goals of the programs as of those in charge of funding them. The Bush Administration is not the first to hijack various parts of the ideas arising from the Great Society programs, but they are among the most devastating and hypocritical.

Rip -- Nice cut and paste with no original thought of your own to contribute. 😛
Originally posted by: Riprorin
They (the democrats) want us to fail as long as President Bush is in charge...
It has nothing to do with "wanting." Bush is already a failure.
Winning elections is all that counts.
If you honestly believe winning elections is all that counts, you don't understand anything about the United States of America, and your opinion simply counts for nothing.

:thumbsdown: 😛 :thumbsdown:
 
Originally posted by: Amused
He is right, though. The Great Society was billed NOT as relief for the poor, because that already existed through private charities. No one was starving in the streets or denied essential medical care prior to LBJ's socialist plan.

Nope, the Great Society was billed as "an end to poverty." It has failed miserably.
Dude charities in America provide "relief" for the poor in the same way the UN provides relief in Sudan. Our domestic social ailments (hunger, lack of healthcare, violence, racism, drug use) have NEVER been amenable to private charities. These organizations often do great work for a certain number of people . . . but they lack the funding, manpower, and organization necessary to make large scale changes in the plight of those in need.

You clearly don't know our history if you believe people were not starving (particularly rural poor) before LBJ. These days American society is managing to pull the double . . . kids in particular are malnourished AND fat!! I guarantee you people are denied essential medical care EVERY day in America. Hospital ERs are legally bound to provide emergency care necessary to stabilize life threatening conditions . . . but that's it.

But Rip (uncharacteristically) is at least in the ballpark in some respects. The Great Society has been a miserable failure and is certainly unsustainable. There's little doubt that many older Americans enjoy a significantly better quality (and quantity) of life thanks to SS/Medicare/Medicaid. Unfortunately, the various entities that have run to feed at the trough (hospitals, insurance companies, drug companies, MDs, allied health, long term care facilities, etc) are all acting in their own self interest with little concern for cost. Add to that the typical "consumer" that acts like this crap is free and legislators (Dems and GOPie) that go out of their way to "pretend" this stuff is free . . . and you have a prescription for what we have. An inefficient system of care marked by excess (I have a headache I DEMAND an MRI) and inadequacies (the typical 6wk wait just to get a consult for child psychiatry).
 
Harvey, do you honestly think there was any "Urban renewal" between 65 and 85? Hell, that was the era of Urban decay. Look at the huge failures of public housing. Look at Cabrini Greens in Chicago or any other public housing complex in which the poor were all thrown into the same area. Public Housing became the same as the Warsaw Ghetto.

Urban renewal came when the government finally started coaxing private enterprise to build in urban areas. Private enterprise is the key to Urban renewal, not socialism.

Look at the generational poverty created by welfare.

It's time to face facts. Charities were filling the needs of the poor before the Great Society. The Great Society was NOT billed as relief for the poor, because it would have been laughed down at the time if it were. People KNEW better and knew that sufficient relief for the poor existed. No, it was billed as an "end to poverty." It did nothing of the sort. It has failed and costs MANY times more than the charities spent per person. It has created a sense of entitlement among the poor rather than a sense of gratitude.

There is no way to label the Great Society plan as anything but a failure.

The "intentions" may have been constructive, but intentions don't mean a damn thing if the practical application is an abject failure.
 
Originally posted by: Amused
Prior to welfare and medicaid, charities more than filled the need for those down on their luck.
The wholesale ignorance and inaccuracy of your statement if beyond belief.
 
"Matrix of Drama"- entirely too accurate, daveshel, entirely too accurate...

"Prior to welfare and medicaid, charities more than filled the need for those down on their luck."

I'm with you, Perknose, but I'll add that the statement is uber-right revisionist history at its finest, something straight out of 1984.
 
My retort

Originally posted by: Riprorin
We now witnessed 40 years of the Great Society, so an audit would not be unreasonable. The "unconditional" War On Poverty has turned into one of the greatest frauds of all time. Poverty has not been eradicated, but billions of dollars have been funneled into the friends and families of the bureaucrats. Food stamps are the unofficial currency of Puerto Rico, and WIC stores are now springing up everywhere in the US. Fannie Mae, Ginnie Mae, and the FHA are a total disaster. The Federal Reserve is totally committed to pumping up the equity markets to avoid the possibility of a bailout of the pension system. Alan Greenspan recently testified that he has real problems with the liabilities of the GSE's.Government Sponsored Enterprises include Fannie Mae, Ginnie Mae, Sallie Mae, etc.

I can't comment on these, I don't know what these progarams are. Darned ignorant Canadians. I will say that the Fed does a good job of combatting inflation/deflation, which is what it's primary job should be.

The government has implemented the Full Employment Act, and has turned the US into a service worker paradise. The premise that the government can create jobs is true. The problem is that the government cannot create productive jobs. What would Congress and it's entourage of lobbyists know about productive work?

I am not aware of any economic theory that suggests that government emloyment programs create primarily service jobs. The only cause of this cited in this article is a backhand comment about the intelligence of Congress. Hmmm, I'm convinced.

We no longer produce goods. It is an economic fact that the production of goods creates wealth through operating leverage.

If by operating leverage he means productive capital, (I hate finance guys) then yes, he's right.

Service industries are inherently inflationary, because there is an equal amount of labor required for every incremental unit of service provided.

Wrong. Actually, like all industries, it requires more labour for every incremental unit of service. This can be compensated for with investment in capital to increase the productivity of each worker. Information technology has considerably increased the productivity of service workers, from the laser scaner in the grocery store, to the Squirrel-type computer ordering systems in restaurants, to the excel spreadsheets that drove the downsizing of the 90s.

There are no wealthy service economies. Ummm, Singapore, Hong Kong, and oh, right, the good ol' US of A The big problem is tax revenue. How can low paying service jobs generate the taxes required to pay for all the social services they use? We witness the absurd spectacle of service workers receiving social services from government workers who are paid three to five times more than the services workers are paid! Will somebody please explain this logically? OK, I will: One government worker can service hundreds of clients, in part thanks to infotech. Taxation grows as a factor of GDP, wich has grown quite nicely in the past 30 years. If most of that growth is in the hands of the rich, then it's pretty easy to figure out who we must tax. Even a flat tax would inevitably gain the greatest part of its revenue from the rich Government workers produce nothing except more government workers! And roads, education, law enforcement, military security, research, medical care. . . We are trapped in a circle with no exit. In the long run, you seem to be doing ok

The Social Security pyramid scheme has hit the wall. The pyramid is disappearing. There will soon be more people collecting benefits than there are people working. If that's true, then it is due to the soon-to-be retiring Boomers. Other countries, including Sweden, have more elaborate welfare states, and older populations, yet they seem to be doing ok. Also, a shortage of workers, if it is that drastic, can easily be fixed with incresed immigration. Personally, I think he is overstating matters The Social Security Fund never existed. The trust fund fiction was created by FDR to defeat the program's critics. TrueThe one variable that might give the system more time, is the fact that you have no legal right to Social Security. Keynesian economics, and socialist central planning, have trapped the Western economies into a slow death. [Again, we seem to be doing ok, in great part to the fact that there is little socialist planning, and we are finding new ways to deliver formerly public goods through the private sector[/b]The true US government debt has been estimated to be 82 trillion dollars. Should this socialist delusion continue, we will have to start computing the National Debt in googols. Googols represent very large numbers. Naturally, the government will announce the conversion to googols as a major cost saving measure. All those very big numbers will be reduced to a few googols. The government will save on forms, and computer data storage space. Once the politicians find out that less trees are being cut down as a result of the conversion to googols, the new numbers base will be heralded as a brilliant environmental decision. We are talking about Nobel prizes, and KBE's from the Queen of England! This could warrant the establishment of a new government agency! The government will claim that the new agency will actually be free because it will be funded with the savings from the conversion to googols. It may run a little over budget, but no plan is perfect. Of course, how would one know if they were over budget using googols?I think that this was an attempt at humour. I emphasize the word attempt. I will note here that Keynesian economic fiscal policies should only be used when inflation is low, and production is less than what is possible. Running deficits for decades is nowhere in his theories, and I will note the bad habit the right has of doing so.

The obvious question is where do we go from here? Dick Stoken, a veteran commodity trader and a very astute observer of the markets and the economy, made an interesting argument in his first book, Cycles (1978). Stoken said that all modern societies have washed away their debts with inflation (debasement of the currency). This would seem like the obvious move for the socialist governments at this time. As Shakespeare said, "Ay, there's the rub". We have to deal with the probability that the past will extrapolate in a linear way into the future. We may be confronted with a discontinous event, which defines a major change in trend. We are witnessing the largest inter generational wealth transfer scheme in history. We are trying to shift our financial obligations onto the next group of workers. Do we really believe that these new workers are this stupid? Why should they be impoverished by paying their elder's bills?The most bizarre part is the fact that the most of elders will dead when these younger workers get the bill for this lunacy! Will they support a government that has enslaved them financially? Would you? Should you wish to revert to legalisms about their duties, The Declaration of Independence will help you to understand their inalienable rights. The first two points in this section seem to have nothing to do with the conclusion, which is perdicting a tax revolt. Could happen, I guess. I can't wait for the court cases.

When will Atlas Shrug? Atlas has not only shrugged, he has sold his real estate at the top, and is now ensconced in Thailand, China, India, the Baltic States, and anywhere else that has economic freedom. Corporations are fleeing the US as if there were vampires here. Corporations are aware of the differences in the value systems of different countries, and are acting rationally by leaving the US for environments that are more" producer friendly". Corporations are leaving the US in order to take advantage of cheaper labour elsewhere. The market will adjust to this, due in no small part to the skills of the American workforce and the infrastucture in your country. Subsidizing the costs of re-training, including the opportunity costs of forgone income, could actually increase the rate of readjustment. Since this transition will benefit society as a whole, due to cheaper products and a more efficient use of your work force, I personally think that a certain measure of compensation to those who are hurt most by it is only fair. But that's my opinion. We should remember that the American value system was once very producer friendly. Calvin Coolidge was the President from 1923 till 1929. Coolidge said, "After all, the chief business of the American people is business". There is a very serious disease in the US. It is highly contagious, usually fatal, and requires extreme measures to stop its spread. It is the ultimate biological weapon. It slowly destroys entire societies. All of the nation's creative energies are utilized in working the system, whether it be for handicapped privileges, or for increases in the particular entitlement they are currently receiving. Slowly, the economy has changed from production to parasitism. Collectivism makes Ebola look like a Christmas present. OK then, I'm just gonna kind of walk over here. . .

Free Markets For Free Men!

Author Wayne N. Krautkramer is a former Fortune 100 financial manager with 30 years experience in commodities and stocks.
 
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: Amused
Prior to welfare and medicaid, charities more than filled the need for those down on their luck.
The wholesale ignorance and inaccuracy of your statement if beyond belief.

Really? Where are the reports and news stories of people dying in the streets in the early 60s?

There are none.

Why?

Because it wasn't happening.

Ask yourself why Welfare was NOT billed as relief for the poor, but as a way to end poverty.
 
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
"Matrix of Drama"- entirely too accurate, daveshel, entirely too accurate...

"Prior to welfare and medicaid, charities more than filled the need for those down on their luck."

I'm with you, Perknose, but I'll add that the statement is uber-right revisionist history at its finest, something straight out of 1984.

1984 was all about the state taking care of, and controlling it's citizens. 1984 is nanny-state socialism run wild, not free market capitalism. It simply amazes me when socialists refer to 1984 and try to equate it with the very values the Founders of the country held dear; Individualism and individual liberty.

BTW, I'm not "uber right wing." I'm a classical liberal. Otherwise known as a libertarian today.
 
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: Amused
Prior to welfare and medicaid, charities more than filled the need for those down on their luck.
The wholesale ignorance and inaccuracy of your statement if beyond belief.

Really? Where are the reports and news stories of people dying in the streets in the early 60s?

There are none.

Why?

Because it wasn't happening.

Ask yourself why Welfare was NOT billed as relief for the poor, but as a way to end poverty.

Seems there was a drop in poverty. You may think it wasn't worth the cost but it did lower poverty.

So I asked myself why would they call it a way to end poverty. I answered myself with "Ending poverty would be a much better slogan and grander sounding than relief for the poor. You gotta sell the product!"

http://www.census.gov/hhes/poverty/poverty99/pov99.html
 
Originally posted by: tss4
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: Amused
Prior to welfare and medicaid, charities more than filled the need for those down on their luck.
The wholesale ignorance and inaccuracy of your statement if beyond belief.

Really? Where are the reports and news stories of people dying in the streets in the early 60s?

There are none.

Why?

Because it wasn't happening.

Ask yourself why Welfare was NOT billed as relief for the poor, but as a way to end poverty.

Seems there was a drop in poverty. You may think it wasn't worth the cost but it did lower poverty.

So I asked myself why would they call it a way to end poverty. I answered myself with "Ending poverty would be a much better slogan and grander sounding than relief for the poor. You gotta sell the product!"

http://www.census.gov/hhes/poverty/poverty99/pov99.html

Correlation does not prove causation.

Also, poverty rates were already steadily falling BEFORE the GS was passed and implemented. It seems it had little effect on poverty.
 
Only the ignorant would argue that the expansion of social services did not move many people from abject poverty all the way to just plain old poverty . . .
 
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