The GOP wants a special senate election in Illinois

[Jhhnn]

I was very careful, Double Trouble, to confine my remarks to the choice of Obama's senatorial replacement.

The current polarization of politics is largely the work of the Right, of the efforts of their thinktanks and foundations, and of the popularization of their ideology thru the efforts of a variety of talking heads and radio voices. Their position has been extreme, particularly wrt economics, and it's been ongoing for decades, culminating in the Bush Admin and formerly repub congress. Their notion of bipartisanship hasn't included the idea of compromise on their part, at all. With us or against us. Unitary Executive. Nuclear Option. The list and the actions supporting it go on from there.

The sad truth is that trickledown economics are a deliberate deception and a dismal failure for the vast majority of Americans, a form of economic class warfare facilitated by massive federal deficits and easy credit, the results of which are only beginning to become apparent, and to affect the opinion and voice of a majority of the electorate. Repubs have no counter for the unfolding consequences to their looting spree, other than distraction and diversion, of which this whole Blago controversy is merely a small part...

 

[Double Trouble]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
I was very careful, Double Trouble, to confine my remarks to the choice of Obama's senatorial replacement.

The current polarization of politics is largely the work of the Right, of the efforts of their thinktanks and foundations, and of the popularization of their ideology thru the efforts of a variety of talking heads and radio voices. Their position has been extreme, particularly wrt economics, and it's been ongoing for decades, culminating in the Bush Admin and formerly repub congress. Their notion of bipartisanship hasn't included the idea of compromise on their part, at all. With us or against us. Unitary Executive. Nuclear Option. The list and the actions supporting it go on from there.

The sad truth is that trickledown economics are a deliberate deception and a dismal failure for the vast majority of Americans, a form of economic class warfare facilitated by massive federal deficits and easy credit, the results of which are only beginning to become apparent, and to affect the opinion and voice of a majority of the electorate. Repubs have no counter for the unfolding consequences to their looting spree, other than distraction and diversion, of which this whole Blago controversy is merely a small part...

That's pretty much exactly the "it's all the other guys, they are all evil, my side are the good guys" idea. It's simply not true, neither party has a stellar track record, both parties have made bonehead moves and done good things.

I will agree with you that with the 2000 election the republicans (especially in the house and senate with the K street project etc) took a hard turn towards polarization, which has only gotten worse now. Unfortunately, the new administration and congress show no signs of wanting to do anything better, they simply want to do the same thing -- stick it to the other side.

 

[Jhhnn]

The president hasn't even been sworn in, Double Trouble, nor has the new congress...

But the rightwing is already telling us all about the evil and divisive things they've done...

You really need to look back much further than 2000 to find the origins of the current divide, to the late 70's, the RR era, and the explosion of talk trash radio...

So, uhh, how's that deregulated free market greed is good financial sector doing? How about that smaller govt? Stay at home foreign policy? Restoring honor and dignity to the Oval Office?

I rather suspect that Dems will end up being a lot more generous with the opposition than all the wailing and handwringing form the usual sources would indicate. They're not punched out from an ideological cookie cutter, meaning they don't have the same kind of lockstep unity we've seen from repubs. And if you really want to figure it out, look at the way they dealt with Lieberman...

 

[palehorse]

A fair election for the seat? that sounds perfectly acceptable to me... I personally disagree with the entire concept of congressional appointees.

 

[Starbuck1975]

But the rightwing is already telling us all about the evil and divisive things they've done...

Some of them have...this is the nature of American politics...the Republicans have been under the microscope for the past eight years...how many Republican lawmakers vocally appalled to the Clinton sex scandal were later found to have skeletons in their own closets.

Now the reverse dynamic is in effect...Democrats, as the party in power, will be under the microscope...you can attempt to dismiss the skeletons that will inevitably be found, but neither party is a champion of ethical conduct.

I rather suspect that Dems will end up being a lot more generous with the opposition than all the wailing and handwringing form the usual sources would indicate. They're not punched out from an ideological cookie cutter, meaning they don't have the same kind of lockstep unity we've seen from repubs. And if you really want to figure it out, look at the way they dealt with Lieberman...

You mean how Obama dealt with Lieberman...the Democrats in Congress were ready to throw him out...Obama intervened because he is perhaps a candidate capable of rising above partisan nonsense.

Obama will have is work cut out for him keeping his own rank and file in check...you are naive to think the Democrats are somehow less partisan than the Republicans.

 

[Jhhnn]

You mean how Obama dealt with Lieberman...the Democrats in Congress were ready to throw him out...Obama intervened because he is perhaps a candidate capable of rising above partisan nonsense.

Obama will have is work cut out for him keeping his own rank and file in check...you are naive to think the Democrats are somehow less partisan than the Republicans.

Any substantiation of your claim wrt Obama's intervention?

Probably not... well, nothing beyond thirdhand accounts from anonymous sources...

As this new admin and congress goes to work, I think one thing that'll become readily apparent is that Dems in general aren't the Radical! Leftists! they're portrayed to be by the usual "conservative" sources. The real radicals in american politics are on the Right, and have been in power for the last 8 years. Their famed unity and discipline have been manifestations of a narrow ideological base, their assault on the institutions of good govt a symptom of their disdain for it and for democracy in general.

There are some among the Democratic party who wanted Lieberman's head on a plate, myself among them. But that hasn't come to pass, and likely won't, and that's not because Obama has some mystical and magical power over the Senate, at all. It's because the majority of senatorial dems really are rather centrist...

 

[retrospooty]

I agree with the GOP here... Obviously Blago cant be trusted. The only fair way to do this is by election. Not sure what the GOP hopes to gain though... its not like a rep is going to win anyhow. Illinois is solidly blue.

 

[colonel]

GOP want to test the water, it a long shot, they will try to wrap Obama on the scandal ( listen to Hannity and Rush)and get election.

 

[Zebo]

LOL I'm sure they do. I want a Veyron with three 20 yr old blonds too.

 

[Jhhnn]

Lemme see... first, amend the Illinois constitution, like this-

http://www.ilga.gov/commission/lrb/con14.htm

Looks like that'll take at least a year... Or should the Illinois legislature break the rules to change the rules?

Yeh, I know, that's never really bothered repubs in the past...

Oh, yeh, then spend $50M on an election with a pre-ordained result. Now that's fiscal responsibility at its finest, I'll tell ya what...

Can you spell Poseurs? How about Bloviators? Attention Whores? Outrage Junkies?

If you can't, then just cut and paste the words to use in a sentence to describe repub ravings wrt Obama's interim replacement in the US Senate....

Calls for Blago's resignation or impeachment are quite reasonable, for sure, but they don't fit real well in the fantasyland of the rightwing echo chamber...

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn

You mean how Obama dealt with Lieberman...the Democrats in Congress were ready to throw him out...Obama intervened because he is perhaps a candidate capable of rising above partisan nonsense.

Obama will have is work cut out for him keeping his own rank and file in check...you are naive to think the Democrats are somehow less partisan than the Republicans.

Any substantiation of your claim wrt Obama's intervention?

Probably not... well, nothing beyond thirdhand accounts from anonymous sources...

As this new admin and congress goes to work, I think one thing that'll become readily apparent is that Dems in general aren't the Radical! Leftists! they're portrayed to be by the usual "conservative" sources. The real radicals in american politics are on the Right, and have been in power for the last 8 years. Their famed unity and discipline have been manifestations of a narrow ideological base, their assault on the institutions of good govt a symptom of their disdain for it and for democracy in general.

There are some among the Democratic party who wanted Lieberman's head on a plate, myself among them. But that hasn't come to pass, and likely won't, and that's not because Obama has some mystical and magical power over the Senate, at all. It's because the majority of senatorial dems really are rather centrist...

It'true but what you call centrist is decidingly right on the international stage. Things such as free university, universal health care, job training and apprenticeships, state pensions, anti-death penalty among others arnt even in the American debate or part of lefts platform. While every other G8 and civilized country it's all part and parcel left and right.

Really I don't know if I would call US a right wing country (probably on the street we are libertarian) but rather both parties aim to plunder the middle majority in order to benefit out the bottom and top minorities of race and riches. Socialism American style. I think it's funny you think there is a real difference between them.

 

[Jhhnn]

I won't argue that there really is no "Left" in american politics, Zebo. If there is, they're almost invisible.

But that doesn't justify your accusations in the last paragraph, above. Your reference to Race and poverty is inaccurate and offensive- most of the poor people in the US are white, like it or not. And the looting of America isn't being accomplished at the bottom, but rather at the top, with some scraps tossed at the bottom to keep them quiet. It's a function of supply side economics, and the failure of that philosophy to deliver to the middle class.

The top 1% share of income grew from <9% in 1980 to more than 22% in 2006, and the bottom 50% share fell off leaving more people in poverty. The massive tax cuts at the top and enormous compensative federal deficits necessary to accomplish that go hand in hand, and are a direct result of the application of rightwing policy to the operation of the govt... Our financial elite has become a lootocracy.

None of which has much to do with the current imbroglio over Obama's soon to be appointed successor in the US Senate...

 

[Lemon law]

It somewhat boils down to the palehorse contention of " A fair election for the seat? that sounds perfectly acceptable to me... I personally disagree with the entire concept of congressional appointees. "

As the OP on this thread, palehorse's personal objections are duly noted, even though he has no standing to object.

The point is, long before any of us were born, the constitution of many States vests the appointment power in the The State Governor at the time the vacancy, for any reason, occurs.

And to be in any way logically consistent, palehorse would have to advocate changing the constitution of all states that have those provisions appointment by governor powers in their constitution.

Because all States have some mechanism or another to replace their elective normally elected representatives to US house and US Senate seats. Because it was not hard to predict such vacancies would occur,
due to death, disability, forced resignation, promotions, or a host of other reasons, in that long ago time when the various State Constitutions were drafted and adopted.

And because State Governors, like virtually all politicians are partisan animals, the universal tendency is, when the Governor is constitutionally mandated to appoint, people of the other party or parties, have a near zero chance to be even be considered, and even less chance of be actually selected for the prize. In short, in those States, if you are not of the party of the governor, you are SOL.

Now fairly or unfairly, by rumor and not an actual indictment, the Governor of Illinois, both sits on a number of such US congressional appointments, and stands accused of corruption. Since Blogojevich refuses to resign and chooses to fight the charges, his right under our system of government which assumes innocent until proven guilty, is no reason in itself to change the Illinois constitution, our to change the reality that under the present Illinois situation, that the GOP will get zero chance at having its people fill ANY of the vacant US congressional or Senatorial slots.

The fairer way, and what will likely happen, is that Blogojevich will simply recuse himself from making the decision, and allow a democratic committee to make the appointments, which he will then agree to rubber stamp. And then in the longer sweep of time, it will be up to the Illinois legislature and the courts to decide if Blogojevich will survive to finish his full elective term, or if he will be forced out or jailed. As it is , the existing Illinois LT. Governor, a fellow named Quinn, would become the Illinois Governor, and unlike some democratic and republican politicians, he is almost totally squeaky clean.

This whole GOP claim to a special election is, IMHO, simply GOP opportunism, they simply forgot, with the help of a even more corrupt previous GOP Governor already jailed for corruption, to win the Governor Illinois position at a time these US Congressional and Senate vacancies came up, and by the constitution of the State of Illinois, they should deserve no chance now. Why shold the rules change in the middle of the ball game.

Don't like the idea of State Governors appointing vacancies, then do the responsible thing, join the political process and lobby to change many State constitutions, its far too late in Illinois not to follow the constitution they have to solve a purely 2008 problem.

 

[Lemon law]

The following new yahoo news link may shed some light on where any Illinois legislative impeachment of Blogojevich is now.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...KIKuxMw05JmrIAtRWs0NUE

If Federal Prosecutors, perhaps headed by Fitzgerald are willing to share hard information with the Illinois bipartisan legislative committee, they will have something more than rumor to act on regarding
the hot button issue alleged selling of a Senate seat by Blogojevich, if not, there is a laundry list of other less potent charges, some of which may be no more than sour grapes politics. But bottom line, the Illinois bipartisan legislative committee can't fairly act on the hot button issue of office selling if Federal Prosecutors refuse them access. And therefore Blogojevich is likely to remain in office for
many many months without that sharing

Even if Federal prosecutors share with even a Illinois legislative fact finding committee somewhat pledged to secrecy, it would meet the sniff test of not trying the case in the newspapers, but it may be still unfair, because if Federal Prosecutors are using illegally obtained evidence, it would not be admissible in a court of law, but could be found credible by a legislative commission.

I still think the best and most Illinois constitutional way around the impasse would be for Blogoejvich to recuse himself from appointing to any congressional or senatorial the vacancies and punt it to his LT Governor and other fellow dems.

Its going to default to that if Blago resigns or is removed by impeachment anyway.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
And to be in any way logically consistent, palehorse would have to advocate changing the constitution of all states that have those provisions appointment by governor powers in their constitution.

Sounds good to me!!

If only the people truly wanted real change...

 

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: winnar111
A lot of Democrats talked about a special election too.

Durbin was the first one to promote this, but when other dems realized this means a possible GOP win, Harry Reid and co. swiflty told durbin to shut his yap and allow the LT gov appointment instead as this virtually ensures another dem senator.

 

[Lemon law]

As far as I know, Durbin was the only big name dem to propose a special elections.

Sadly, just in from the yahoo news, Federal Prosecutors have slammed the door on sharing evidence, meaning impeaching Blogo is not nearly as easy or probable.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...e_us/illinois_governor

But since Illinois is democratic State, I see nothing wrong with " Harry Reid and co. swiflty told durbin to shut his yap and allow the LT gov appointment instead as this virtually ensures another dem senator."
Next time the repubs can either ammend of Illinois constitution, or actually gasp try to win the Governor of Illinois position by actual better governance. Their last effort resulting in a GOP Illinois governor going to jail for corruption.