The GOP is wasting no time before resorting to gridlock

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: palehorse
The Stimulus Plan is a massive steaming pile of unbelievable pigshit.

Anyone who supports it, at least in its current form, is a total fucking idiot.

'The Stimulus Plan'? What parts of it are pigshit? Which version of 'The Stimulus Plan' are you talking about? It doesn't even have a 'current form', it has a form that has passed one chamber of Congress that is not even being considered in the other, and even the form being looked at in the other chamber won't matter because the conference committee bill will be different than both of them.

Speaking of total fucking idiots...

Nice dance sally... my point was that the version that passed in the House is a pile of pork-bellied shit, and anyone who supports it is an idiot.

does that shoe fit? do you support the version that passed in the House?

Save your lectures son...

So you mean that you're against a stimulus plan that won't ever go into effect? Thanks for letting the world know! Why would you even bother wasting your time writing that? I'll stop lecturing you when you smarten up.

The final version that comes out after all the legislating is done will be very very different than what has been voted on up to this point. I'm sure there will be plenty of things to oppose in that as well, but I for one like to oppose actual bills that might be passed. Call me crazy.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

^ Crazy.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Even some of the Dems in the Senate don't like the Bill the way it is and I'm sure Obama won't mind have some of the unnecessary items trimmed from the Bill.

Exactly the point Red Dawn, that is what the debate in the Senate will be about.

But the GOP wants to totally rewrite the bill such that all the Stimulus bill becomes almost all direct rebates back to the tax payers based on borrowed money. With no resulting stimulation or infrastructure building. Or in other words, a continuation of GWB economic policies.

There will be a lot of smokescreen verbiage on both sides, but that is what it will boil down to. The idea of democratic investments or GOP based tax cut based on more spend and borrow.

I do not know how much compromise is possible on that clash.

You need to pull your head out of Obama's ass for long enough to realize this is a BAD BILL. You are so clouded by the tingle running up your leg you cannot admit it. The Republicans are right here and you know it - This bill needs to be redone. This bill is pure pork and needs to go down. This is not what people elected Obama for and NOT what he ran on.

Relax man... I agree, and I think most other liberals do to, that this bill damn well better not pass as is. But Obama DID say he wasnt happy with some of the things in the bill and wanted to cut out the things that arent directly related to stimulating jobs.

Before you condemn him, wait to see what actually passes, and what he and the senate take out. If it passes as is, with all that pork and non-related crap, I will be right there with you condemning it, and Obama for not "changing" the way things are done. Give him a chance first though. Right now, you are crapping all over him for something that hasnt even happened.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: palehorse
The Stimulus Plan is a massive steaming pile of unbelievable pigshit.

Anyone who supports it, at least in its current form, is a total fucking idiot.

'The Stimulus Plan'? What parts of it are pigshit? Which version of 'The Stimulus Plan' are you talking about? It doesn't even have a 'current form', it has a form that has passed one chamber of Congress that is not even being considered in the other, and even the form being looked at in the other chamber won't matter because the conference committee bill will be different than both of them.

Speaking of total fucking idiots...

Nice dance sally... my point was that the version that passed in the House is a pile of pork-bellied shit, and anyone who supports it is an idiot.

does that shoe fit? do you support the version that passed in the House?

Save your lectures son...

So you mean that you're against a stimulus plan that won't ever go into effect? Thanks for letting the world know! Why would you even bother wasting your time writing that? I'll stop lecturing you when you smarten up.

The final version that comes out after all the legislating is done will be very very different than what has been voted on up to this point. I'm sure there will be plenty of things to oppose in that as well, but I for one like to oppose actual bills that might be passed. Call me crazy.

you ARE crazy!

This entire discussion is based upon what we have already seen, and what changes need to be made. Even so, there are still many people who blindly support the House version of the bill -- including a large number of Congressmen and women who just so happened to vote for it, as well as many posters here who see the (D) in front of the plan and blow their premature wad of support all over it

Please see the OP's objection to what he calls"gridlock" -- aka healthy debate to clean up the House version. My initial response was directed at the OP.

Said response was based upon the garbage/pork we see demonstrated in the version of the bill that passed the House. If you only wish to discuss the merits of the final bill, then I highly suggest you leave this thread alone until the final bill is published, or you share your abilities to see into the future with the rest of us. Sound good? good.

c ya!

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: palehorse

you ARE crazy!

This entire discussion is based upon what we have already seen, and what changes need to be made. Even so, there are still many people who blindly support the House version of the bill -- including a large number of Congressmen and women who just so happened to vote for it, as well as many posters here who see the (D) in front of the plan and blow their premature wad of support all over it

Please see the OP's objection to what he calls"gridlock" -- aka healthy debate to clean up the House version. My initial response was directed at the OP.

Said response was based upon the garbage/pork we see demonstrated in the version of the bill that passed the House. If you only wish to discuss the merits of the final bill, then I highly suggest you leave this thread alone until the final bill is published, or you share your abilities to see into the future with the rest of us. Sound good? good.

c ya!

The OP is discussing possible filibuster of the stimulus bill in the Senate. The Senate version of the bill is not based off what passed in the House, therefore your opposition to the House version is... utterly meaningless in reference to McConnell's threatened filibuster.

You should probably target your objections at the Senate version of the bill, along with the conference version when it comes out. Either way, to call the House version 'the stimulus bill' is retarded.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Blah,blah,blah.. Obama sucks, Democrats suck..Republicans good..blah, blah blah.

Rinse and repeat and thats all you ever post.

Well what do you want me to do? Praise them when they are wrong?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
The Senate version of the bill is not based off what passed in the House.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: eskimospy
The Senate version of the bill is not based off what passed in the House.

What is the confusion?

Both chambers have devised their own stimulus bills. They have done so in consultation with one another, but the Senate did not take up the bill that the House passed in order to tinker with it, vote on it. They are tinkering with/voting on their own version of the bill.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Apparently the REpublican concerns are considered tobe legit

WASHINGTON ? A top Republican called for more mortgage relief and additional tax cuts in President Barack Obama's massive economic stimulus package as Democrats conceded privately they will drop items that have drawn bipartisan criticism.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., told reporters Monday that "a stimulus bill must fix the main problem first, and that's housing." He promised that Republicans would offer a plan to have the government step in to reduce mortgage rates to the 4 percent range, which could shore up home prices and lower housing payments for millions of Americans.

At the same time, two questionable items in the plan ? $75 million for smoking cessation programs and $400 million to slow the spread of HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases ? have already been dropped from the most recent draft of the measure.

The Senate planned to begin debate on the legislation Monday and the process was likely to stretch into next week.

Democrats were prepared to offer amendments to add $20-$30 billion more for infrastructure programs such as roads, bridges, mass transit and water projects, according to Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y.

Schumer also said Democrats would support a GOP-backed idea to double a home buyers tax credit from $7,500 to $15,000 and make it available to all home buyers instead of those purchasing their first home.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: eskimospy
The Senate version of the bill is not based off what passed in the House.

What is the confusion?

Both chambers have devised their own stimulus bills. They have done so in consultation with one another, but the Senate did not take up the bill that the House passed in order to tinker with it, vote on it. They are tinkering with/voting on their own version of the bill.

The base of the "Senate version" is the House bill; which is why everything is being "taken out" during the revision process -- ie. the smoking cessation nonsense.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Blah,blah,blah.. Obama sucks, Democrats suck..Republicans good..blah, blah blah.

Rinse and repeat and thats all you ever post.

Well what do you want me to do? Praise them when they are wrong?

No probelm questioning this Bill, I'm questioning it myself. However Obama didn't write it and he hasn't signed off on it. Pelosi and some of the Dem Congressman deserve an ass reaming for some of the shit added to that Bill but I believe they know deep down that it's not going to fly as it is and will eventually get down to reality. If it does pass as it is there's gonna be more than just pissed off Republicans, trust me.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
-snip-
No probelm questioning this Bill, I'm questioning it myself. However Obama didn't write it and he hasn't signed off on it. Pelosi and some of the Dem Congressman deserve an ass reaming for some of the shit added to that Bill but I believe they know deep down that it's not going to fly as it is and will eventually get down to reality. If it does pass as it is there's gonna be more than just pissed off Republicans, trust me.

That looks to be a significant error on Obama's part.

He promised a clean stimulus bill with no pork, and Pelosi looks to have ignored his lead and delivered a huge pork bill.

I'm willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt and trust he was sincere in his promise, too bad he (White House) didn't draft it and submit to Congress.

Pork ain't stimulus, if it were we wouldn't be in this situation. If pork were actually stimulus, the Repub spending spree from '01 to 06 would have our economy on fire right about now.

For those who want to argue pork = stimulus (Lemon Law et al), well, blame our current economic woes on the Dems. You guys claim they cut down on pork (stimulus) the last 2 years hence they must've killed our economy under your logic - they reduced stimulus at exactly the wrong time.

Fern

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
-snip-
No probelm questioning this Bill, I'm questioning it myself. However Obama didn't write it and he hasn't signed off on it. Pelosi and some of the Dem Congressman deserve an ass reaming for some of the shit added to that Bill but I believe they know deep down that it's not going to fly as it is and will eventually get down to reality. If it does pass as it is there's gonna be more than just pissed off Republicans, trust me.

That looks to be a significant error on Obama's part.

He promised a clean stimulus bill with no pork, and Pelosi looks to have ignored his lead and delivered a huge pork bill.

I'm willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt and trust he was sincere in his promise, too bad he (White House) didn't draft it and submit to Congress.

Pork ain't stimulus, if it were we wouldn't be in this situation. If pork were actually stimulus, the Repub spending spree from '01 to 06 would have our economy of fire right about now.

For those who want to argue pork = stimulus (Lemon Law et al), well, blame our current economic woes on the Dems. You guys claim they cut down on pork (stimulus) the last 2 years hence they must've killed our economy under your logic - they reduced stimulus at exactly the wrong time.

Fern

:laugh: well played!

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Fern

For those who want to argue pork = stimulus (Lemon Law et al), well, blame our current economic woes on the Dems. You guys claim they cut down on pork (stimulus) the last 2 years hence they must've killed our economy under your logic - they reduced stimulus at exactly the wrong time.

Fern

That would be retarded. The entire pork argument was stupid from the get-go as I have mentioned many times in previous threads. Pork as a percentage of the federal budget was at its height under the Republicans... at all of about $30 billion. It was reduced under the Democrats to about $17 billion.

Out of a federal budget of about $2.5 trillion.

All it's ever been is a convenient way for politicians to label programs they don't like, and a way to make a vague promise to cut the budget without doing anything.

So, unless you think a reduction of 0.7% of our federal budget is responsible for our current economic woes, blaming the Democrats for our current troubles would be retarded. Of course I know you don't really think that. Pork very well can be stimulus, and if you accept the premise of the stimulus bill, the actual target of the spending is not particularly relevant, it is only important that the spending takes place. (the famous quote of digging holes and filling them back up and all). If you don't agree with the premise of the stimulus bill, then does it really matter anyway?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Pork very well can be stimulus

So you would support a bill that is 80% pork?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Pork very well can be stimulus

So you would support a bill that is 80% pork?

Define pork. Again, one man's pork is another man's stimulus. Most people define it as "spending I don't like".

EDIT: I guess it doesn't really matter though. My point was that the purpose of the bill is to help the economy, if you believe that this spending will help the economy, then the target of the spending is a secondary concern. I don't view the complaints about pork in the bill as a particularly large problem, as I consider most of the complaints political grandstanding.

Everyone will disagree on what is wasteful spending and what isn't. (I for one was fine with spending money on family planning) I'm sure there would be some upward ridiculous limit at which point I would consider the stimulus to the economy not worth the price we were paying for it, but that's so far away from even the same ballpark as these bills that it's not something that really matters to me.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
-snip-
No probelm questioning this Bill, I'm questioning it myself. However Obama didn't write it and he hasn't signed off on it. Pelosi and some of the Dem Congressman deserve an ass reaming for some of the shit added to that Bill but I believe they know deep down that it's not going to fly as it is and will eventually get down to reality. If it does pass as it is there's gonna be more than just pissed off Republicans, trust me.

That looks to be a significant error on Obama's part.

Fern

404 Error not found. Instead of getting into a protracted battle with those of his own party he lets the loyal opposition do his work for him. This way he doesn't alienate the Dems in Congress when the public demands that this Bill be trimmed of the pork and he looks like he's willing to be pragmatic and work with the Republicans. This guy is very good, probably better than Bill Clinton.

 

[Mani]

Originally posted by: iFX

Originally posted by: Mani
And you'd think after running this country into the ground over the last 8 years, the republicans would learn that their one-issue approach to the economy sucks. The sad thing is, all of this is political posturing so that they can try to look like the saviors against spending when in fact they look like an obstructionist bunch of whining babies.

lol

Are you trying to sound one sided or does it come natural?

It doesn't take a partisan to see the abysmal state of disrepair the previous admin, congress, and policies have left our country in. In fact, just about anyone with an ounce of impartiality would. Do you?

 

[blackangst1]

I have yet to hear anyone explain how this bill is any different than the last 8 years of GOP spending? Hell, if I didnt know any better, I'd say it was written 5 years ago by the sitting GOP!

Anyone?

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Blah,blah,blah.. Obama sucks, Democrats suck..Republicans good..blah, blah blah.

Rinse and repeat and thats all you ever post.

Well what do you want me to do? Praise them when they are wrong?

No probelm questioning this Bill, I'm questioning it myself. However Obama didn't write it and he hasn't signed off on it. Pelosi and some of the Dem Congressman deserve an ass reaming for some of the shit added to that Bill but I believe they know deep down that it's not going to fly as it is and will eventually get down to reality. If it does pass as it is there's gonna be more than just pissed off Republicans, trust me.

Ok, so the house leadership wrote the bill. But Obama is the newly elected President.. Should they NOT be running this stuff past him first? Seems very stupid of him not to be involved.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Mani

Originally posted by: iFX

Originally posted by: Mani
And you'd think after running this country into the ground over the last 8 years, the republicans would learn that their one-issue approach to the economy sucks. The sad thing is, all of this is political posturing so that they can try to look like the saviors against spending when in fact they look like an obstructionist bunch of whining babies.

lol

Are you trying to sound one sided or does it come natural?

It doesn't take a partisan to see the abysmal state of disrepair the previous admin, congress, and policies have left our country in. In fact, just about anyone with an ounce of impartiality would. Do you?

Oddly enough, we keep hearing about how the previous admin left this country in some abysmal state of disrepair quite often in P&N, and when we do it NEVER fails to come from the usual group of partisans.

The problem right now is the economy. Truthfully, Bush, Congress, et al didn't cause our economy to go into the gutter anymore than Clinton was at fault for allowing the tech bubble to burst and plunge our economy in the crapper. Of course, the hard-core partisans in here won't see it that way, which is not surprising in the least.

 

[Mani]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Mani

Originally posted by: iFX

Originally posted by: Mani
And you'd think after running this country into the ground over the last 8 years, the republicans would learn that their one-issue approach to the economy sucks. The sad thing is, all of this is political posturing so that they can try to look like the saviors against spending when in fact they look like an obstructionist bunch of whining babies.

lol

Are you trying to sound one sided or does it come natural?

It doesn't take a partisan to see the abysmal state of disrepair the previous admin, congress, and policies have left our country in. In fact, just about anyone with an ounce of impartiality would. Do you?

Oddly enough, we keep hearing about how the previous admin left this country in some abysmal state of disrepair quite often in P&N, and when we do it NEVER fails to come from the usual group of partisans.

The problem right now is the economy. Truthfully, Bush, Congress, et al didn't cause our economy to go into the gutter anymore than Clinton was at fault for allowing the tech bubble to burst and plunge our economy in the crapper. Of course, the hard-core partisans in here won't see it that way, which is not surprising in the least.

Quite to the contrary, the only people on this forum who do not think Bush and the GOP had a huge hand in this economy tend to be the blindest partisans. Bush's approval rating ended up sub-30%, largely on the basis of the economy. I guess by your logic there's a hell of a lot of blind partisans out there.

By the way, if you want some ways in which presidential and legislative policies affect an economy, see lack of regulation, encouragement of outsourcing, fed monetary policy, tax policy, and government spending - all have a massive effect on the economy, all of which are within executive/legislative control. Not to mention the all-important confidence in leadership, of which there was none. An argument may be made (tenuously) that a 4-year president has a negligible impact on his/her economy, but it's just plain uninformed to claim that of an 8-year president...and that includes Clinton.

 

[her209]

Why don't the Republicans draft a version of the bill then?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: her209
Why don't the Republicans draft a version of the bill then?

They did. In fact, they worked all weekend to draft a version that does away with most of the pork, coming in at around $713 billion. Florida Senator Martinez took the lead on their version...

HERE.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: her209
Why don't the Republicans draft a version of the bill then?

They did. In fact, they worked all weekend to draft a version that does away with most of the pork, coming in at around $713 billion. Florida Senator Martinez took the lead on their version...

HERE.

Wow, how white of them - they shaved, what? Less than a hundred billion off the alternate plan?