Discussion The GN review of the Pentium G7400, is a perfect example of what's wrong with big reviewers.

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DAPUNISHER

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Prefacing my remarks: I am a fan of GN. They are the best PC tech journalists for consumer advocacy, hands down. And they are developing into an excellent technical reviewer as well. I have gone as far as to purchase merch to support them.

That said: The aforementioned review strikes me as being out of touch with the ultra budget gamer. The narrative that there is room for a sub 4GHz 2/4 CPU as a budget gamer, in 2022, is bad advice. And a prime example of how bar graphs fail dismally, in fully conveying the problems a user faces. Assets loading slowly or not at all, greatly inhibit a game's enjoyability, and adversely impact its playability. Take that, on top of the frame pacing issues they do mention. Now, add that it is priced against a $85 10100f 4/8 and B560M $90 board, and it makes even less sense.

The place holder argument falls flat for me. It cannot handle the latest demanding titles already. In my mind, that makes it a losing your place holder. :D It is also too closely priced to the 12100f. GN pushes the idea to spend enough on a board that it can handle a beefier CPU later. That money would be better spent on a 4/8 CPU to begin with.

None of this addresses the used market, as that is not a apples to apples comparison. And for value, it would further the argument that the G7400 should not even enter the discussion, for a build that needs to be capable of playing the latest titles.

This review is also a good example of why video reviews can be so helpful, when done correctly. While this is a video review, it never shows actual gameplay with the hardware. I have seen, and experienced for myself, NPCs missing, large parts of the scene missing and/or popping in, weird A.I. behavior, textures taking too long to load, hitching, stuttering, freezing, audio issues; all the things. I have read some here say they only like text and picture reviews. That has probably never been an issue for you, because you can afford hardware that does not experience any of those issues. But those written reviews will never convey the real gaming experience, that a gamer playing on weak hardware can do by streaming or recording.

Some free unsolicited advice for inexperienced DIYers that may read this. Do not let the reputation and warm feels big reviewers may have garnered, overly influence your purchasing decisions. Even the ones that buy the stuff themselves, are greatly limited by time constraints. You are better off finding a smaller youtuber that plays the games with the hardware you are interested in, testing games you want to play, or that have similar levels of demand, at the very least.

I am looking forward to contrary opinions being expressed; that is the best way to improve my own POV and maybe even change my mind on a topic. Provided the points made are compelling and not simply, passive aggressive insults, with no agenda other than to express your dislike of either myself, or my opinions. Though you can do that too. Water off a duck's back baby.

Nearly forgot the review :p

 
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jpiniero

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I think Intel will eventually introduce desktop Pentium Gold chips that either have 4 large P-cores without HT or, more likely, retaining 2 large P-cores with HT while adding 4 small E-cores, though such a change for Intel's budget desktop chips likely won't happen until Meteor Lake.

Mobile Alder Lake Celerons, Pentiums and i3s already have E-cores and it's only a matter of time before E-cores are added to the low-end desktop chips.

1+4 is more likely like the mobile parts.
 

lyonwonder

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Dec 29, 2018
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1+4 is more likely like the mobile parts.

I can see future desktop Celerons having 1-P cores and 4-E cores. Desktop Pentiums would probably be 2-P cores with 4-E cores since I assume Intel would want to differentiate desktop Celerons and Pentium on more than just clockspeed. I think the only thing seperating mobile Alder Lake Celerons from Pentiums is that the mobile Celeron has no turboboost with a low clockspeed while mobile Pentiums have turboboost enabled.
 

LightningZ71

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One of the best ways to save is to think of it long term.

So a DIY desktop is the one that makes sense. The PSU, Case, Keyboard/Mouse, and Monitor doesn't need to be replaced for many, many years. Even RAM lasts for a long time.

Then once you started down that road, all you need is CPU, Motheboard, Video card to be replaced as needed. No laptop will be more affordable than that. Getting a laptop to throw it away is one of the most wasteful financial decisions you can make and keeps the poor, poor.

Also, take full advantage of the used market. SELL your components when upgrading. If you do the upgrade every 2 years, you can often sell them at greater than half the cost of original.

I’ve more often handed down my laptops to my younger kids for their use for school and light gaming. I’ve also flipped a few over the years through giving them upgrades as I come across cheap or free parts. It’s not a waste. It’s recognizing the trends. There’s a reason that the mobile sector of the PC industry currently dwarfs the desktop sector, and did so before Covid.

I agree, some parts can be reused for years. But, in the PC industry, those are often the cheapest and easiest to replace. Cases are certainly long lived. Power supplies more often get outgrown or bypassed by standards.
 
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Insert_Nickname

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One of the best ways to save is to think of it long term.

So a DIY desktop is the one that makes sense. The PSU, Case, Keyboard/Mouse, and Monitor doesn't need to be replaced for many, many years. Even RAM lasts for a long time.

Then once you started down that road, all you need is CPU, Motheboard, Video card to be replaced as needed. No laptop will be more affordable than that. Getting a laptop to throw it away is one of the most wasteful financial decisions you can make and keeps the poor, poor.

Also, take full advantage of the used market. SELL your components when upgrading. If you do the upgrade every 2 years, you can often sell them at greater than half the cost of original.

Boots law.

You need to spend money to save them. The trick is being able to afford spending them.

There’s a reason that the mobile sector of the PC industry currently dwarfs the desktop sector, and did so before Covid.

Both have advantages/disadvantages depending on what you're doing for work. Just because laptops are the most used doesn't mean they're always the most useful for a given job.

Heck, some doesn't even know desktops still exists.
 

scannall

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Several months ago I got sick and tired of the GPU prices. So I actually bought a pre-built. Not really my thing but it was past time for an upgrade. I bought an Alienware R10 Ryzen edition. A 5800 non-X, with a 3070 for video. 16 gigs ram, 2 TB SSD for 1400. About the same as that video card was selling for.

The reviews on that were terrible, and I was worried before it actually arrived. And my own experience with it has nothing in common with the reviews.

Stress testing, the CPU has never been higher than 63c. Gpu maxed at 70c. No fan noise and just works.

If anyone is interested I can write a full review of both pros and cons, but so far overall I am happy with it even with the cons.
 
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DAPUNISHER

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Several months ago I got sick and tired of the GPU prices. So I actually bought a pre-built. Not really my thing but it was past time for an upgrade. I bought an Alienware R10 Ryzen edition. A 5800 nonX, with a 3070 for video. 16 gigs ram, 2 TB SSD for 1400. About the same as that video card was selling for.

The reviews on that were terrible, and I was worried before it actually arrived. And my own experience with it has nothing in common with the reviews.

Stress testing, the CPU has never been higher that 63c. Gpu maxed at 70c. No fan noise and just works.

If anyone is interested I can write a full review of both pros and cons, but so far overall I am happy with it even with the cons.
Questions: Did you throw fresh windows on it? Because the bloatware is one of the biggest negatives.

Did you find it easy to avoid the subscription service that GN rails about?

On the hardware side of it though, I mostly agree with you. ETAPrime is the only reviewer I know, that gives everything a fair shake, and accepts the hardware for what it is. Instead of looking down the end of his nose at it. Even the "destined for the landfill because of the use of proprietary components", is hyperbolic. I have usually been able to find the board or PSU I need for a client's system on ebay for much less than replacing the system would cost. When either, it makes sense to do that, or they are loathe to part with the system.
 

scannall

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Questions: Did you throw fresh windows on it? Because the bloatware is one of the biggest negatives.

Did you find it easy to avoid the subscription service that GN rails about?

On the hardware side of it though, I mostly agree with you. ETAPrime is the only reviewer I know, that gives everything a fair shake, and accepts the hardware for what it is. Instead of looking down the end of his nose at it. Even the "destined for the landfill because of the use of proprietary components", is hyperbolic. I have usually been able to find the board or PSU I need for a client's system on ebay for much less than replacing the system would cost. When either, it makes sense to do that, or they are loathe to part with the system.
I did do a "Nuke and Pave" to reinstall the OS with just what I wanted, as I'm not a bloatware fan. But there wasn't much to begin with.

After the reinstall of the OS there wasn't anything to subscribe to, so that wasn't an issue either.

For cons I hate the case, especially taking off and putting back on the side panels. 1 M2 slot is not enough. The Spaceman Spiff curved case is annoying as a curved top has a lot of drawbacks and no benefits. Another con is the power leads. There are a couple of 2.5 inch drive bays that can't be powered unless you buy extension power cables to reach them.
 

DAPUNISHER

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The service subscription is sold when checking out at Dell. Watch the GN reviews of Dell systems if you want to see how Dell was including it even when they actively attempted to unselect it.
 

VirtualLarry

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ToastyBros comparison between 12100F and 12400F, with RX 6600 GPU.

Surprising to me, was that the 12100F has higher single-core clocks speeds than the 12400F, and was actually faster in some games. I did not realize that before.
 
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DAPUNISHER

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Kit Guru tested a Cyberpower system and showed similar results.


My gut tells me we have been here before though. Look at one of the top comments on the vid you linked -

"my i5 9400f struggles so hard in a lot of games."

It was getting the same treatment the i3 is. It aged poorly due to lack of threads, which just a few short years ago, we were told was plenty for gaming.
 

Ranulf

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"my i5 9400f struggles so hard in a lot of games."

It was getting the same treatment the i3 is. It aged poorly due to lack of threads, which just a few short years ago, we were told was plenty for gaming.

True, but the i3 12100 isn't mid range cpu but a $100 (no igpu) to $130 (igpu) priced low end cpu. The other problem with the 9400 is that for an i5 that msrp originally at $182, its only 6c/6t vs the 12100 that is 4c/8t. 8t is better than 6t.

Another video with i3 benchmarks, the i3 vs a 3700x. TLDR, the i3 wins in several games with OC samsung b-die ram.

 

StinkyPinky

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Those celeron junk CPU's aren't clearly designed to run with Windows and obviously not games. Pentium the same to some extent.

I suspect they are for linux and the like. Anyone running a 2c/2t cpu on a Windows box is just asking for pain. Gaming or not.
 
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DAPUNISHER

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It took GN about an extra 10 weeks to do a video to conclude what I was saying about the 10100/f being a better sub $100 CPU to build with than the Pentium G7400, but he got there. Best to ignore the fps numbers, they are practically worthless when looking at the Pentium. As they do a poor job of illustrating how bad the stutters, hitches, game load times, and other issues it suffers from, actually are.


The fact he still doesn't outright roast the G7400, would be sus. But honestly, it isn't like they played games with and experienced the frustration the experience brought. They ran some quick, repeatable, canned benchmarks and maybe ran around for a minute in game without a built in to get those numbers. Hence it looks better on paper than it really is.
 

Ranulf

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At least they spent some time on the 4 threads of the 7400 giving them problems. He covers mobo considerations too. Though people point out that the mobo costs for 12th gen make the 10100 chips even better.
 

VirtualLarry

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At least they spent some time on the 4 threads of the 7400 giving them problems. He covers mobo considerations too. Though people point out that the mobo costs for 12th gen make the 10100 chips even better.
What I don't understand is, he mentioned that memory clock differences between the 12100F's DDR4-3200 limit, and the 10100F's DDR4-2666 limit, could make up to 15% frame-rate differences (at least that's how I interpreted it), but mentioned that moving up to a Z590 board was too expensive for the 10100F to get 3200 RAM with it.

Did the great Tech Jesus, forget, that the B560 motherboards for 10th/11th-Gen Intel CPUs, at least some of them, allow for RAM OC with XMP, up to 3200? At least, I've run G6400 4.0Ghz Pentium Gold rigs with 3200 RAM that way, that CPU-Z identified inside Windows 10 as running at 1600Mhz, which is the correct speed for (DDR)4-3200.
 

DAPUNISHER

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At least they spent some time on the 4 threads of the 7400 giving them problems. He covers mobo considerations too. Though people point out that the mobo costs for 12th gen make the 10100 chips even better.
He blew it on the board considerations, as Larry pointed out. B560 allows memory overclocking/XMP. And he should have been dunking on the G7400, and saying to stay far away from it for a modern AAA gaming build. Everything else he said and concluded, I pointed out back in April. I hurt my shoulder patting myself on the back BTW. :p


What I don't understand is, he mentioned that memory clock differences between the 12100F's DDR4-3200 limit, and the 10100F's DDR4-2666 limit, could make up to 15% frame-rate differences (at least that's how I interpreted it), but mentioned that moving up to a Z590 board was too expensive for the 10100F to get 3200 RAM with it.

Did the great Tech Jesus, forget, that the B560 motherboards for 10th/11th-Gen Intel CPUs, at least some of them, allow for RAM OC with XMP, up to 3200? At least, I've run G6400 4.0Ghz Pentium Gold rigs with 3200 RAM that way, that CPU-Z identified inside Windows 10 as running at 1600Mhz, which is the correct speed for (DDR)4-3200.
They showed Newegg listings for the B560, then backhand complimented it for the vrms probably not exploding with a 10100. Next, did indeed proceed to miss that it supports XMP. And instead implied you'd be limited to 2666MHz. It was a sloppy gaming based review. It really is the weak point of their channel; ironic given their name.

Compared to my Zen 3 systems, my 10100f, even in a Z490 Aorus Elite AX with 3200MHz, feels sluggish at times. And it has the freshest OS install. That said, it games it up just fine. I never ask more than 75Hz refresh 1440p, and it does the job in almost all of the titles I have tried with it. AC: Odyssey induces some frame pacing issues if played on HDTV. But it is me being picky, and it is fine with VRR.
 
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