Discussion The GN review of the Pentium G7400, is a perfect example of what's wrong with big reviewers.

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DAPUNISHER

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Prefacing my remarks: I am a fan of GN. They are the best PC tech journalists for consumer advocacy, hands down. And they are developing into an excellent technical reviewer as well. I have gone as far as to purchase merch to support them.

That said: The aforementioned review strikes me as being out of touch with the ultra budget gamer. The narrative that there is room for a sub 4GHz 2/4 CPU as a budget gamer, in 2022, is bad advice. And a prime example of how bar graphs fail dismally, in fully conveying the problems a user faces. Assets loading slowly or not at all, greatly inhibit a game's enjoyability, and adversely impact its playability. Take that, on top of the frame pacing issues they do mention. Now, add that it is priced against a $85 10100f 4/8 and B560M $90 board, and it makes even less sense.

The place holder argument falls flat for me. It cannot handle the latest demanding titles already. In my mind, that makes it a losing your place holder. :D It is also too closely priced to the 12100f. GN pushes the idea to spend enough on a board that it can handle a beefier CPU later. That money would be better spent on a 4/8 CPU to begin with.

None of this addresses the used market, as that is not a apples to apples comparison. And for value, it would further the argument that the G7400 should not even enter the discussion, for a build that needs to be capable of playing the latest titles.

This review is also a good example of why video reviews can be so helpful, when done correctly. While this is a video review, it never shows actual gameplay with the hardware. I have seen, and experienced for myself, NPCs missing, large parts of the scene missing and/or popping in, weird A.I. behavior, textures taking too long to load, hitching, stuttering, freezing, audio issues; all the things. I have read some here say they only like text and picture reviews. That has probably never been an issue for you, because you can afford hardware that does not experience any of those issues. But those written reviews will never convey the real gaming experience, that a gamer playing on weak hardware can do by streaming or recording.

Some free unsolicited advice for inexperienced DIYers that may read this. Do not let the reputation and warm feels big reviewers may have garnered, overly influence your purchasing decisions. Even the ones that buy the stuff themselves, are greatly limited by time constraints. You are better off finding a smaller youtuber that plays the games with the hardware you are interested in, testing games you want to play, or that have similar levels of demand, at the very least.

I am looking forward to contrary opinions being expressed; that is the best way to improve my own POV and maybe even change my mind on a topic. Provided the points made are compelling and not simply, passive aggressive insults, with no agenda other than to express your dislike of either myself, or my opinions. Though you can do that too. Water off a duck's back baby.

Nearly forgot the review :p

 
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DAPUNISHER

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I enjoy John Linnemen's retro content on DF. Alex, as I have oft opined, is part of the Nvidia marketing human caterpillar, and Richard likes money. They do some good content though. But there is too much sponsored, and you have to disregard the numerous overly biased POVs. And GN deserves the warm feels and kind words because of their consumer advocacy, financial commitment to technical equipment for serious testing, and environmental awareness and charity work. But their gaming stuff is inadequate IMO. I do not rely on their content on that subject.

On the 10100f: This thing can game for certain. Daily driving; typing from it now, is an excellent experience so far. I don't think a 1650 super is an unrealistic pairing either. I paid $200 for it new, because it is the Gaming X model. Base models were around $160. Prices are getting better, so a $200 or below GPU of this performance level is becoming doable again.
 

SteveGrabowski

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I enjoy John Linnemen's retro content on DF. Alex, as I have oft opined, is part of the Nvidia marketing human caterpillar, and Richard likes money. They do some good content though. But there is too much sponsored, and you have to disregard the numerous overly biased POVs. And GN deserves the warm feels and kind words because of their consumer advocacy, financial commitment to technical equipment for serious testing, and environmental awareness and charity work. But their gaming stuff is inadequate IMO. I do not rely on their content on that subject.

Linneman was the one who basically did the undisclosed sponsored video for Horizon Forbidden West by raving about the graphics in the pre-launch review video and then waiting until the day after launch to even mention how bad the performance mode looked (and only on Twitter after people started asking wtf). He also did no performance review of Elden Ring for launch because Bandai Namco asked him not to, under the guise of waiting for a day 1 patch that fixed nothing with the performance. Two big releases in a row where Linneman chose to be a shill instead of the buyer's advocate a reviewer is supposed to be.
 

DAPUNISHER

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Again, I like John's retro content. Have to say, I don't watch them much. Only when I see something that grabs my attention.
 

VirtualLarry

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G6900 versus G1610, in Gaming.

12th-gen versus 3rd-gen 2C/2T CPU.

Spoiler: Both have horrible pausing during gameplay. Along with the loss of savegames in CP2077.

EDit: Another vid, this time, he takes a 12300, and disables all but one core.
 
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TheELF

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Along with the loss of savegames in CP2077.
That's due to terrible coding mistakes though, or rather due to just recompiling console code for PC leaving terrible for PC coding in there.
Along with far cry 4 starting on core 3 for absolutely no reason whatsoever, or far cry primal continuously crashing on the same mission or gta V not loading parts of the map.
I'm not defending dual cores here, I'm just saying to put blame where blame belongs.
 

jpiniero

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That's due to terrible coding mistakes though, or rather due to just recompiling console code for PC leaving terrible for PC coding in there.
Along with far cry 4 starting on core 3 for absolutely no reason whatsoever, or far cry primal continuously crashing on the same mission or gta V not loading parts of the map.
I'm not defending dual cores here, I'm just saying to put blame where blame belongs.

Cyberpunk's official system requirements mention the 3570K btw.
 

DAPUNISHER

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Sure because you still need the FPS, but what is the excuse for files not being able to be saved or loaded?
Console targets and broken ports have been something we PC gamers have suffered a long time now.
However, when the developer gives the gamer a FYI that they need a certain level of CPU to run their game? The gamer should not be doing a surprised Pikachu when their dual core Celery build has a bad time.
 

DAPUNISHER

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For the third time, I understand bad frame rates, but how can loading and saving files be anything other then bad coding. People have been saving and loading since punch card coding was a thing.
I think you are missing the forest for all the trees blocking your view. When the dev tells you to have a quad core, it not running on a dual core is on you, not them. It is a bad hill to die on IMO, demanding the game work properly on below target hardware. The reason is immaterial; they set the minimum. Whinging about it being nerfed on below minimum is irrational.
 
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Heartbreaker

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I think you are missing the forest for all the trees blocking your view. When the dev tells you to have a quad core, it not running on a dual core is on you, not them. It is a bad hill to die on IMO, demanding the game work properly on below target hardware. The reason is immaterial; they set the minimum. Whinging about it being nerfed on below minimum is irrational.

It can be both a case of "You shouldn't use under the minimum spec" and a case of "Something is really wrong with the programming".

Not being able to save/load because of core count seems like a bug even if it's technically under spec. A bug that may reveal itself more intermittently at other times, using an in spec processor and multitasking. If I was the developer aware of this, I'd use this as an opportunity to reveal a bug and fix it.
 

DAPUNISHER

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It can be both a case of "You shouldn't use under the minimum spec" and a case of "Something is really wrong with the programming".

Not being able to save/load because of core count seems like a bug even if it's technically under spec. A bug that may reveal itself more intermittently at other times, using an in spec processor and multitasking. If I was the developer aware of this, I'd use this as an opportunity to reveal a bug and fix it.
No argument here. And I acknowledged we get boned in my first reply, due to bad ports and console targets. This game is a great example of development hell to begin with.
 

Mopetar

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It can be both a case of "You shouldn't use under the minimum spec" and a case of "Something is really wrong with the programming".

Not being able to save/load because of core count seems like a bug even if it's technically under spec. A bug that may reveal itself more intermittently at other times, using an in spec processor and multitasking. If I was the developer aware of this, I'd use this as an opportunity to reveal a bug and fix it.

At a certain point it's just not worth the time and effort, even just to test for it, let alone to try and fix the problem. Something that's breaking specifically on low core-count systems is probably the nasty sort of problem that isn't going to be a one or two line fix that can be taken care of in a few minutes. Instead you're probably spending time addressing the slowdowns that console users are facing because fixing that hits 80%+ of your users.
 

DAPUNISHER

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At a certain point it's just not worth the time and effort, even just to test for it, let alone to try and fix the problem. Something that's breaking specifically on low core-count systems is probably the nasty sort of problem that isn't going to be a one or two line fix that can be taken care of in a few minutes. Instead you're probably spending time addressing the slowdowns that console users are facing because fixing that hits 80%+ of your users.
It's sort of the answer to my complaint about the G7400 review too. Low budget gamers are not their main target audience. Not likely to buy merch, or join their Patreon. Probably click on fewer vids about high end stuff, and when they do, likely spend less minutes viewing. A poor ROI is not the best motivator.

Needing more system ram, GDDR, and CPU threads, isn't a new trend either. Even storage speed is essential as a quality of experience thing. HDD mode in 2077 further detracts from the experience. If you are playing it with a 2/4 CPU and a HDD, I am betting you wear long sleeved shirts so people can't see you are a cutter. :p
 

jpiniero

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It's sort of the answer to my complaint about the G7400 review too. Low budget gamers are not their main target audience. Not likely to buy merch, or join their Patreon. Probably click on fewer vids about high end stuff, and when they do, likely spend less minutes viewing. A poor ROI is not the best motivator.

It got 147k views, soo....
 

TheELF

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At a certain point it's just not worth the time and effort, even just to test for it, let alone to try and fix the problem. Something that's breaking specifically on low core-count systems is probably the nasty sort of problem that isn't going to be a one or two line fix that can be taken care of in a few minutes. Instead you're probably spending time addressing the slowdowns that console users are facing because fixing that hits 80%+ of your users.
Think about it, the only way that save/load can fail on a dual core is if there is no code in the game that checks to see if save/load was successful...
This means that save/load is left to luck on any and all systems, consoles included, if there is no code in the game to check for it then it affects everybody.


All they have to do is check the return code of the file operation after the normal time it would take to do it and if it didn't return with a succeed, pause the game and do it properly.
Normal systems wouldn't be affected since the operation will have finished in the normal time and everybody else gets a few moments of freeze or a pause (save/load) screen but gets to play without loosing saves.
 

VirtualLarry

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RandomGamingInHD on YT - a comparison between i5-12100F + RTX 3050 and a G7400 + RTX 3060ti.

Spoiler: The 12100F combo was the best overall, for most, but not all, of the games.
 

DAPUNISHER

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RandomGamingInHD on YT - a comparison between i5-12100F + RTX 3050 and a G7400 + RTX 3060ti.

Spoiler: The 12100F combo was the best overall, for most, but not all, of the games.
The issue is that when the Pentium is bad, it's "the game isn't fun" bad. Freezing, stuttering, pop-in = unacceptable. 2/4 CPUs have no place in a 2022 gaming PC.

And keep in mind UK Steve was sent that Pentium by Intel. It and the i3 are his very first swag CPU reviews. Calling the Pentium impressive in the title of the initial review was the first red flag. I don't think less sucktacular than we all thought it would be, is a synonym for impressive. :p
 
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lyonwonder

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I think Intel will eventually introduce desktop Pentium Gold chips that either have 4 large P-cores without HT or, more likely, retaining 2 large P-cores with HT while adding 4 small E-cores, though such a change for Intel's budget desktop chips likely won't happen until Meteor Lake.

Mobile Alder Lake Celerons, Pentiums and i3s already have E-cores and it's only a matter of time before E-cores are added to the low-end desktop chips.
 

IntelUser2000

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Are they ideal? Of course not. But, they are affordable, readily available, and, again, if you are starting from nothing, you're looking at a $200 video card to get appreciably better gpu performance before you've bought ANYTHING else. How are you fitting a case, monitor, PSU, RAM, CPU, Keyboard, Mouse and the various other bits you need in under $200 to have something better? You aren't.

One of the best ways to save is to think of it long term.

So a DIY desktop is the one that makes sense. The PSU, Case, Keyboard/Mouse, and Monitor doesn't need to be replaced for many, many years. Even RAM lasts for a long time.

Then once you started down that road, all you need is CPU, Motheboard, Video card to be replaced as needed. No laptop will be more affordable than that. Getting a laptop to throw it away is one of the most wasteful financial decisions you can make and keeps the poor, poor.

Also, take full advantage of the used market. SELL your components when upgrading. If you do the upgrade every 2 years, you can often sell them at greater than half the cost of original.