The Gauge or Thickness of Speaker Wire

[BonzaiDuck]

My new JBL Cinema 500 5.1 Home Theater speaker system just arrived via UPS.

I am methodically beginning to place and connect the satellite speakers -- so that everything is connected to the AV Receiver before I switch it on.

The JBL kit has its own speaker wire -- which I gather to be 16 gauge wire. It appears that I have a roll of unused Radio Shack 16 gauge wire available, in the event I need to extend the JBL wiring.

However, I had already laid out wire for the old stereo (8 Ohm/80 Watts/ch.) speakers I will donate soon to Goodwill Industries. Especially, the wire already in place will eliminate my need for any soldering and patching to extend wiring.

Even so, I never noticed this before, but the wire "in place" is apparently 18 gauge -- not 16 gauge wire. The maximum distance from end to end of all wiring for the new JBL satellites should not be more than 25'.

What the [heck] difference would it make to just use the 18-gauge wiring for my rear satellite speakers with new 16-gauge wiring for the front and center units?

See -- I wouldn't have thought to ask ANYONE about this in years past, but it's easy to solicit opinions on these forums. I would much appreciate any input on this.

 

[kornphlake]

http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/speaker-cable-gauge

I'd use the 16 ga for longer runs and the 18 ga for the short runs since that's what you have on hand. It wouldn't hurt to run 14 ga throughout though.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/speaker-cable-gauge

I'd use the 16 ga for longer runs and the 18 ga for the short runs since that's what you have on hand. It wouldn't hurt to run 14 ga throughout though.

Thanks. I can see eventually that I may (maybe not, though!) be inclined to replace the thinner 18 gauge wire. But I'm in a [practical] hurry to get this done so that I can test the $1,000-worth of equipment I purchased. And I can't handle spending time in this room with the disarray of boxes, parts, etc. Gotta get done with it!

It will be another chore for me to replace at most two wires -- strung behind bookshelves and along baseboards -- etc. etc.

 

[kornphlake]

So you're saying that it doesn't matter what recommendations people give, you're going to use whatever you want. Which is fine, I'd be inclined to use the existing wiring if I were in your situation, but I probably wouldn't have asked if I wasn't going to be open to other suggestions.

There are reasons beyond snake oil, smoke and mirrors for using wire that can carry the needed current over the required distances. But it seems like you've already made up your mind so I won't bother getting into it.

 

[sdifox]

Given 12GA speaker wires are dirt cheap at Home Depot, I would just buy 2 new lengths.

Last time I bought some it was like 2.50 a metre. so less than a dollar a foot.


PS you can definitely use what you got now in the mean time.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Kornphlake -- I didn't quite mean exactly what you're saying you thought I meant.

My first priority was testing this new setup to assure that $1,000 in Home Theater upgrades worked properly. I wasn't sure exactly how the thinner gauge wire would affect the result.

I have a roll of 16-gauge -- which is what the JBL Cinema 500 speakers came with. I suppose I could get thicker for the longest lengths.

The results as of today: the ONKYO Audyssey "automatic" setup tailored the speaker output to balance everything, even with one wire as 18-gauge. It all works perfectly.

But I'll go forward to string that 16-gauge wire to the single speaker currently connected with 18-gauge.

I went through all sorts of troubles today. Once I had the AV receiver "initial setup" configured through the Onkyo menus, I brought up Media Center. Got this "Display driver error -- playback source cannot play protected content." Did some searches; used some deductive logic. I couldn't get ANY of the cable channels to play through the receiver, all giving the same message, but the Hauppauge HVR-2250 for OTA broadcast HD works fine as expected.

Downloaded the latest nVidia drivers for my GTX 570 graphics card -- installed them -- rebooted with the AV/Receiver turned on. Beee-autiful!! All the channels from my SiliconDust HomeRun Prime are back.

Still some bugs to iron out -- was planning to post another thread and question here.

The receiver and its menus are overwhelming. So many different "audio" formats. Apparently, it defaults to "all channel stereo" if that's what is being broadcast.

Another thing. When I turn off the receiver, it's supposed to revert to Standby mode, and continue to pass through the HDMI signal to the HDTV -- WHICH . . . it does . . .

Despite the Media Center reconfig in which I chose HDMI/displayport output, it reverts (with the Onkyo in "standby" mode) to the Logitech Z640 analog speakers of the computer. Which -- is nice to know.

But when I turn the receiver back on, the sound dialog under Control Panel still shows the Onkyo/JBL system as "disconnected." I have to reboot the computer with the receiver turned "on" to get it all back.

My main concern about this rig: I didn't want to be forced to use the Onkyo receiver system all the time -- wanted to keep the electric bill where it was. So -- apparently -- I can do that . . . . I'm just a bit antsy about how it treats the two different sound systems -- AVR+JBL-speakers versus analog Logitech Z640 PC 5.1 system.

Any insights someone can give to this . . . I'm sure I'll be eternally grateful . . . Otherwise (and whether-or-not) . . . I'll need to continue playing with it to gain more familiarity.

I think I'm going to cut and prepare that 16-gauge wire now. But -- a hassle -- I'll need to string it behind a corner bookcase, my rat's nest under my desk, and three other bookshelves along the wall . . . . And . . . . I HAVE to CLEAN UP this FREAKING ROOM, the boxes, the styrofoam, the tools, etc. etc. etc.

 

[funboy6942]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o03_s00_i00

I bought this for my speakers and it worked just fine. $5.99 for 100 feet was a steal.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o03_s00_i00

I bought this for my speakers and it worked just fine. $5.99 for 100 feet was a steal.

Ah! That's a good price for 100 feet, but it's 18-gauge wire. I have this old roll of Radio Shack 16-gauge, but I still need to measure it. I am quite sure I need exactly 30 feet.

I also dropped by Radio Shack today. Their own branded 50-foot roll costs about $17. They also sell the "Monster" brand -- same gauge, same length for about $32!!

It sort of leaves one . . . mystified. The clerk at RS told me that the price "reflects their brand name." But it's the same . . . gauge . . . conductive wire with similar plastic sheathing!! How can the "sound" be any better -- or any worse . . . for half the price? Or even less than that?

 

[Charlie98]

As far as speaker wire, the bigger the better... it's the 'pipeline' that carries the signal. I have crappy 20-year old speakers and I run 12ga wire to them... there IS a difference.

As far as branding, you pay for the name in most cases. If you are talking a spool of wire, it's pretty much all the same, but, as I say, go big. You may not be able to hear a difference between RS and Monster wire, but you should be able to hear a difference between 18ga vs 12ga, etc.

 

[JAG87]

As far as speaker wire, the bigger the better... it's the 'pipeline' that carries the signal. I have crappy 20-year old speakers and I run 12ga wire to them... there IS a difference.

As far as branding, you pay for the name in most cases. If you are talking a spool of wire, it's pretty much all the same, but, as I say, go big. You may not be able to hear a difference between RS and Monster wire, but you should be able to hear a difference between 18ga vs 12ga, etc.

It all depends on the wattage, the impedance of the speaker, and the length of the run.

For most home uses (under 50W, 8 ohm speaker, under 20 feet) 16 gauge wire is perfectly fine.

 

[funboy6942]

Ah! That's a good price for 100 feet, but it's 18-gauge wire. I have this old roll of Radio Shack 16-gauge, but I still need to measure it. I am quite sure I need exactly 30 feet.

I also dropped by Radio Shack today. Their own branded 50-foot roll costs about $17. They also sell the "Monster" brand -- same gauge, same length for about $32!!

It sort of leaves one . . . mystified. The clerk at RS told me that the price "reflects their brand name." But it's the same . . . gauge . . . conductive wire with similar plastic sheathing!! How can the "sound" be any better -- or any worse . . . for half the price? Or even less than that?

http://www.amazon.com/Pyramid-RSW121...8990451&sr=1-2

This should then do the trick for you. $14.96 for 100 feet of 12ga.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

http://www.amazon.com/Pyramid-RSW121...8990451&sr=1-2

This should then do the trick for you. $14.96 for 100 feet of 12ga.

Thanks again. . . . definitely a bargain, compared to what you might purchase at the local electronics store, Radio Shack or "Best Buy."

Per remarks by JAG and CHARLIE, I think I'll go ahead and order some of that 12-gauge wire.

After setting up the speaker balance with my Onkyo -- even so -- even the 18-gauge seems adequate for the moment. I just need to take the trouble to replace the old wire in a crowded room with many obstacles.

 

[Howard]

I use stranded 14-ga. It's never let me down, and it's not very expensive.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Well I use 12gauge monster wire. The guage is dependent on distance. I use a five speaker set up with a subwoofer and its own power source behind aAVR 1612 Denon. This is what I have in my shop. The Wire runs are long to the rear speakers which cost big $$. As I make all wires equal in length to the longest run. Its the proper way . Using monster cable makes it pretty expensive . But long runs like I have . A 16 /18 guage is complete fail . It will last for awhile but way shortened amp life with wrong guage wires. 125 feet of monster cable is what I required. This stuff to expensive not to do it by spec.

 

[sdifox]

Well I use 12gauge monster wire. The guage is dependent on distance. I use a five speaker set up with a subwoofer and its own power source behind aAVR 1612 Denon. This is what I have in my shop. The Wire runs are long to the rear speakers which cost big $$. As I make all wires equal in length to the longest run. Its the proper way . Using monster cable makes it pretty expensive . But long runs like I have . A 16 /18 guage is complete fail . It will last for awhile but way shortened amp life with wrong guage wires. 125 feet of monster cable is what I required. This stuff to expensive not to do it by spec.

there is no reason for your speaker wires to be the same length.

 

[Rio Rebel]

there is no reason for your speaker wires to be the same length.

You have to have them exactly the same length so that the magic Monster particles can distribute the sound evenly.

 

[Howard]

there is no reason for your speaker wires to be the same length.

No, but symmetry helps if you have OCD. Also, if there's no reason you shouldn't make them the same length, then you should, because it makes it easier when you disconnect/reconnect.

 

[sdifox]

No, but symmetry helps if you have OCD. Also, if there's no reason you shouldn't make them the same length, then you should, because it makes it easier when you disconnect/reconnect.

he has 5 runs of 25ft as opposed to 2x25 plus whatever the front 3 need.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I've yet to string the 16-gauge wire and replace the single 18-gauge to the rear right surround speaker. [As I said, three of the four speakers use the 16-gauge wire bundled with the 5.1 speaker system.]

Currently, I'm using my Onkyo in "all speaker stereo" mode. I'm not cranking the volume up to the max. So for the current speaker output, I really cannot notice any difference. I don't think I noticed any difference in "THX" mode, either, although I have to crank up the volume some more and actually have a soundtrack or cable station broadcasting in that mode.

Maybe if I wanted to be arrested for nuisance or "disturbing the peace," I'd crank these suckers all the way up, but I'm pretty much overwhelmed with half the possible max settings.

 

[Fallen Kell]

As far as speaker wire, the bigger the better... it's the 'pipeline' that carries the signal. I have crappy 20-year old speakers and I run 12ga wire to them... there IS a difference.

Actually, you are wrong. Lower gauge (i.e. thicker/bigger) wire has higher capacitance. This acts as a low pass filter, which means it starts cutting off the higher frequencies in the signal. For short runs, this might not be an issue (or with gear which doesn't reproduce higher frequencies well/or need too, such as subwoofers), but with other equipment, or lengths of the cord, this can and will make a difference in the signal at the speaker.

Basically, your wires have all the components used in altering the signal running on it, capacitor (low-pass filters), inductor (high-pass filters), and resistor (drops the signals power, making it softer). Changing the wires changes those components, and thus alters your speaker's operation, and the internal crossovers (assuming a multi-driver speaker) will now be operating with different levels of capacitance, inductance, and resistance, throwing off the calculations for what frequency ranges to send to which driver(s), as well as possibly altering the signal such that certain frequencies will not even reach the speaker at all. And some of this is even simply in how you have your wires placed (the best inductors and resistors are made just from copper wire, either coiled up, or strung back and forth, respectively).

Now don't let the above make you think that I am an advocate for $300 speaker wires, because I am not. I am an advocate for science/fact based designed wires. I prefer to build my own to be honest, and test with a multi-meter to see how well it is acting.

 

[Fallen Kell]

there is no reason for your speaker wires to be the same length.

The reason to have them the same length is so that the resistance/inductance/impedance to the speakers are the same. While this doesn't mean you need to have all the wires the same length, you do want whichever speakers it is paired with to have the same length wire, so that both speakers are producing the same response to the same signal.

For instance, given standard 18guage .9999 copper wire, with one speaker having 10 feet of cord and the other 45 feet (something that might happen if someone went the long way around a room due to a door/opening in the way, there is a difference of 0.223 Ohms of resistance. This will change the crossover points up by ~2-3Hz (depending on crossover design) just due to the resistance change, let alone the capacitance, and inductance changes.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

The reason to have them the same length is so that the resistance/inductance/impedance to the speakers are the same. While this doesn't mean you need to have all the wires the same length, you do want whichever speakers it is paired with to have the same length wire, so that both speakers are producing the same response to the same signal.

For instance, given standard 18guage .9999 copper wire, with one speaker having 10 feet of cord and the other 45 feet (something that might happen if someone went the long way around a room due to a door/opening in the way, there is a difference of 0.223 Ohms of resistance. This will change the crossover points up by ~2-3Hz (depending on crossover design) just due to the resistance change, let alone the capacitance, and inductance changes.

That makes sense. It seems my back (surround) speakers both use the same lengths, and the front and center speakers all use the same (approximate) lengths.

Whether it's imagination or empirical observation, I'm impressed with my ONKYO's intelligent or self-tuning feature that uses the little microphone that comes in the carton. One picks about three different locations in the room for the microphone during this process, to retire the microphone to storage for the duration.

 

[sdifox]

The reason to have them the same length is so that the resistance/inductance/impedance to the speakers are the same. While this doesn't mean you need to have all the wires the same length, you do want whichever speakers it is paired with to have the same length wire, so that both speakers are producing the same response to the same signal.

For instance, given standard 18guage .9999 copper wire, with one speaker having 10 feet of cord and the other 45 feet (something that might happen if someone went the long way around a room due to a door/opening in the way, there is a difference of 0.223 Ohms of resistance. This will change the crossover points up by ~2-3Hz (depending on crossover design) just due to the resistance change, let alone the capacitance, and inductance changes.

Why would you run 18 for 35ft? I run 12ga everywhere. Diff in resistance between 10ft and 45ft is 0.05558Ohm. In other words, negligible.

 

[HeXen]

i would use oxygen free copper, you can use smaller guage than aluminum or cladding. 18 guage in this regard would be more than plenty for your setup

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Why would you run 18 for 35ft? I run 12ga everywhere. Diff in resistance between 10ft and 45ft is 0.05558Ohm. In other words, negligible.

Well, I think I just bought the receiver and 5.1 about three weeks ago. All the speaker wires are the ones which came with the speaker set -- 16-guage. And as I said, I'd already installed another wire for the old stereo around bookcases and along the baseboards -- a major chore replacing it -- the old wire being 18-gauge.

But I haven't really noted any difference btween that speaker and the rest.

BTW -- anyone who can answer -- when I set the receiver to surround-THX mode, I mostly get two-channel stereo output for a lot of my cable stations. I notice Netflix movies often have real surround sound. I'm thinking it's best to leave this set up for "All-speaker stereo" mode until I can acquire a BD player or add a BD-burner to my PC. Because -- as I said -- I only seem to get full surround for certain movies on certain movie channels -- the news stations, etc. all seem to come in only as stereo.

Is that about right? You really don't get surround-sound unless its encoded on DVD or BD, or NetFlix (certain movies) -- or certain channel broadcasts?